Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

The way Pinot has ridden his Grand Tours, literally emptying himself to the point of exhaustion, sickness, or injury, is shortening his shelf life. It is the unfortunate reality that the deeper and more often you dig to the bottom of the well, the less often you will be able to dig in the future.

If nothing else, Tibopino has always bounced back stronger, with a chip on his shoulder. Hopefully he has 4-5 years left before fading and get a little luck coming his way...at last.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Just watched the short documentary Avec Thibaut. Heartbreaking, he's so fragile and human. It's hard not to cheer for him.

<3 easily the most relatable rider
There is no one that deserves a GT win more than him

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

There is no one that deserves a GT win more than him

I hear what you're saying, but this is bike racing. I am a huge fan, and will continue rooting for Pinot, but the only one who deserves a GT win is the first across the line. It would make a compelling story for sure, if he does earn his win, but he does need to earn it.

 

[macbindle]

^^^^^^ This

Lets stop the mythologising BS. Pinot is not some sort of figure from a Greek tragedy, he's a second tier GT rider with a habit of abandoning Grand Tours.

He's also a mega cry baby. Compare and contrast him with other podium riders who have crashed out of the tour and you can see why he is not a winner. Froome may be one of the most unpopular riders amongst (continental) fans, riding for the most unpopular team but hold Pinot up against him and the difference is clear. Same goes for Thomas, who is much more chilled. Same for Nibali.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

^^^^^^ This

Lets stop the mythologising BS. Pinot is not some sort of figure from a Greek tragedy, he's a second tier GT rider with a habit of abandoning Grand Tours.

He's also a mega cry baby. Compare and contrast him with other podium riders who have crashed out of the tour and you can see why he is not a winner. Froome may be one of the most unpopular riders amongst (continental) fans, riding for the most unpopular team but hold Pinot up against him and the difference is clear. Same goes for Thomas, who is much more chilled. Same for Nibali.

I don't get why you continue to antagonize those who like and support Tibo by being so contemptuous about him in these emotional times... If you don't have anything nice to say or constructive to add, why say anything at all?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

There is no one that deserves a GT win more than him

I hear what you're saying, but this is bike racing. I am a huge fan, and will continue rooting for Pinot, but the only one who deserves a GT win is the first across the line. It would make a compelling story for sure, if he does earn his win, but he does need to earn it.

Of course, I don't mean to say he deserves to win x or y GT because whoever wins it, is the one who deserves it. But if there's any rider in the current peloton that deserves a GT win in the future it's Thibaut for me, and I think many agree. I doubt he has (m)any anti-supporters (except for macbindle).

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

^^^^^^ This

Lets stop the mythologising BS. Pinot is not some sort of figure from a Greek tragedy, he's a second tier GT rider with a habit of abandoning Grand Tours.

He's also a mega cry baby. Compare and contrast him with other podium riders who have crashed out of the tour and you can see why he is not a winner. Froome may be one of the most unpopular riders amongst (continental) fans, riding for the most unpopular team but hold Pinot up against him and the difference is clear. Same goes for Thomas, who is much more chilled. Same for Nibali.

I don't get why you continue to antagonize those who like and support Tibo by being so contemptuous about him in these emotional times... If you don't have anything nice to say or constructive to add, why say anything at all?

You dont get to decide who says what. It's a discussion forum not a love-in. If people are antagonized by views which differ from their own then they need to grow up. If they cant grow up then they need to find a little jerk-circle of self-reinforcing friends who will only say things they want to hear.

If I go through your posting history will I find posts that are critical of riders and teams you dont like? Thought so.

By all means disagree with my point of view, as long as you back it up with evidence (like I have), but dont try and pull this emotional crap and expect me to give you any respect.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

^^^^^^ This

Lets stop the mythologising BS. Pinot is not some sort of figure from a Greek tragedy, he's a second tier GT rider with a habit of abandoning Grand Tours.

He's also a mega cry baby. Compare and contrast him with other podium riders who have crashed out of the tour and you can see why he is not a winner. Froome may be one of the most unpopular riders amongst (continental) fans, riding for the most unpopular team but hold Pinot up against him and the difference is clear. Same goes for Thomas, who is much more chilled. Same for Nibali.

I don't get why you continue to antagonize those who like and support Tibo by being so contemptuous about him in these emotional times... If you don't have anything nice to say or constructive to add, why say anything at all?

You dont get to decide who says what. It's a discussion forum not a love-in. If people are antagonized by views which differ from their own then they need to grow up. If they cant grow up then they need to find a little jerk-circle of self-reinforcing friends who will only say things they want to hear.

If I go through your posting history will I find posts that are critical of riders and teams you dont like? Thought so.

By all means disagree with my point of view, as long as you back it up with evidence (like I have), but dont try and pull this emotional crap and expect me to give you any respect.

You're free to share your opinion but why do you have to share that same opinion dozens of times days on end? You've made your point. At this point it only seems like you are trying to antagonize.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

The way Pinot has ridden his Grand Tours, literally emptying himself to the point of exhaustion, sickness, or injury, is shortening his shelf life. It is the unfortunate reality that the deeper and more often you dig to the bottom of the well, the less often you will be able to dig in the future.

If nothing else, Tibopino has always bounced back stronger, with a chip on his shoulder. Hopefully he has 4-5 years left before fading and get a little luck coming his way...at last.

Yeah, that's my impression too.
Got pneumonia during the Giro - returned to win two stages at the Vuelta, as well as Lombardia.
And then there's the whole got a ride in a rally car to deal with his trouble descending thing from a few years ago.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

^^^^^^ This

Lets stop the mythologising BS. Pinot is not some sort of figure from a Greek tragedy, he's a second tier GT rider with a habit of abandoning Grand Tours.

He's also a mega cry baby. Compare and contrast him with other podium riders who have crashed out of the tour and you can see why he is not a winner. Froome may be one of the most unpopular riders amongst (continental) fans, riding for the most unpopular team but hold Pinot up against him and the difference is clear. Same goes for Thomas, who is much more chilled. Same for Nibali.

I don't get why you continue to antagonize those who like and support Tibo by being so contemptuous about him in these emotional times... If you don't have anything nice to say or constructive to add, why say anything at all?

You dont get to decide who says what. It's a discussion forum not a love-in. If people are antagonized by views which differ from their own then they need to grow up. If they cant grow up then they need to find a little jerk-circle of self-reinforcing friends who will only say things they want to hear.

If I go through your posting history will I find posts that are critical of riders and teams you dont like? Thought so.

By all means disagree with my point of view, as long as you back it up with evidence (like I have), but dont try and pull this emotional crap and expect me to give you any respect.

You're free to share your opinion but why do you have to share that same opinion dozens of times days on end? You've made your point. At this point it only seems like you are trying to antagonize.

Dozens means 24+.

My last post was a response to your personal attack.

Let's leave the personal stuff out shall we. I'm talking about Pinot and racing. You arent...you are attacking me.

 

[tobydawq]

What is your agenda?

 

[macbindle]

Lay off the personal stuff please

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Lay off the personal stuff please

You're the one who started critisising (sp?) a guy's personality when it was obviously not the reason he quit. You even went so far as to state that you wouldn't be talking about the real issue (the injury)…

Besides; you seem to confuse "showing emotions" for "being mentally weak".

 

[macbindle]

An athlete's personality is part of their athletic make up and is open for comment.

Slagging me off because I hold a different opinion to you isnt.

 

[LaFlorecita]

No one is slagging you off. You're slagging Thibaut off and accuse him of being mentally weak because he shows emotions and proves to be human. Highly unnecessary IMO.

 

[macbindle]

Until such point as you and Redhead are actually able to discuss riders without turning it into a personal attack because you disagree I shall be ignoring you both. I see nothing in your posts but repeated puerile attempts to turn a conversation about a cyclist into a conversation about me. By all means disagree with my opinion but dont try and set yourselves up as self-appointed forum police. I am posting within the rules, you are not.

 

[tobydawq]

And you're the judge of that?

These are not personal attacks...

You demand unnecessary amount of hardcore-ness from riders, but when people (not even in a remotely rude way) say that that is probably quite ridiculous you get extremely defensive, showing fragility and everything else than toughness. The Thibaut of posters.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

An athlete's personality is part of their athletic make up and is open for comment.

Pretty sure no one could have continue with that injury, and not for lack of trying on Pinot's part!

---

But anyway, love how Madiot's reaction, when Pinot talks about how "You told me that* last year..." (I'm guessing they had a similar conversation after the Giro last year...) is basically, "Yeah, and was I wrong?"




*Tommorrow everything will be allright.

 

[staubsauger]

Pinot isn't weak, he's sensitive! Huge difference and nothing to be ashamed of. At least from my pov. LaFlorecita should provide better expertise whether sensitive men are nice.

Pantani was sensitive too! Huge champion. Best climber ever! An artist on the bike. That's what Armstrong called him full of praise and respect. It wasn't until he became mentally weak in the wake of his 1999 Giro d'Italia expulsion that his life & career went downhill rapidly!

 

[Red Rick]

https://twitter.com/GroupamaFDJ/status/1156210541662298112?s=09

Update on @ThibautPinot: additional medical tests confirmed a medial vastus muscle injury combined with an inter-fascial bruise. He will resume training in 20 days.

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

https://twitter.com/GroupamaFDJ/status/1156210541662298112?s=09

Update on @ThibautPinot: additional medical tests confirmed a medial vastus muscle injury combined with an inter-fascial bruise. He will resume training in 20 days.

That means no Vuelta I guess!

 

[Fergoose]

I dont think criticism of Pinot at this TdF is merited - his injury doesn't appear to have been caused by poor bike handling or anything. He has improved his descending and time trialling substantially and would have cruised this TdF if he was in Bernal's position with INEOS and had stayed injury free.

However, my personal interpretation is that climbers typically decline in form earlier than diesels and so I fear this was his last serious tilt at a TdF. As long as French riders of Pinot's quality predominantly stay on substandard / lower budget French teams I dont think we'll ever see a French winner.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

I dont think criticism of Pinot at this TdF is merited - his injury doesn't appear to have been caused by poor bike handling or anything. He has improved his descending and time trialling substantially and would have cruised this TdF if he was in Bernal's position with INEOS and had stayed injury free.

However, my personal interpretation is that climbers typically decline in form earlier than diesels and so I fear this was his last serious tilt at a TdF. As long as French riders of Pinot's quality predominantly stay on substandard / lower budget French teams I dont think we'll ever see a French winner.

A few points from a neutral observer:
1. The jury is out on his injury. It was reportedly in 1 leg (his thigh). I note some silly theory commented on the CN article it was glycogen depletion. That makes no sense whatsoever. Glycogen depletion affects the entire body.
2. If he was injured that isn't related to a decline in form.
3. He showed the best form we have seen since 2014 so there goes the theory he is in decline.
4. Pinot is still only 29.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

A few points from a neutral observer:
1. The jury is out on his injury. It was reportedly in 1 leg (his thigh). I note some silly theory commented on the CN article it was glycogen depletion. That makes no sense whatsoever. Glycogen depletion affects the entire body.
2. If he was injured that isn't related to a decline in form.
3. He showed the best form we have seen since 2014 so there goes the theory he is in decline.
4. Pinot is still only 29.

The "Avec Thibaut" documentary shows what kind of an injury that was, obviously a torn quad. And the recent updates confirm it. A freak injury for a cyclist. Goddamit! And what a heartbreak to watch the video.

This was his best form ever, so I don't see how we can talk of a decline. In '14 he podiumed but was 9 minutes down, attacked once (that's once more than Kruijwijk in '19 but nothing grandiose). After that, Thibaut's wins were mostly sneak attacks, or against an average field. Then something happened in the '17 Ruta del Sol that I noted at the time: for the first time, he won "a la pedale" against the bests, dropping a red-hot Valverde, Landa, catching up to Contador and sprinting to victory. Trentino and Il Giro gave him confidence. Then in '18, we know how it went: disaster at Il Giro, riding for fun and two stages wins at La Vuelta, going to the fall classics in Italy with big ambitions and he delivering at Milano-Torino before a show of class and panache in Lombardia.

Tibopino came in '19 with a new sponsor who wanted him to do Le Tour and he chose to embrace the challenge, declaring that he wanted to show "the true Pinot", and that's in many ways what he did. And he did more. Thibaut Pinot has gained legions of fans. He is the rider who dared to attack Ineos, exposed them on stage 14 and exploded them on stage 15. For the first time in a GT, he was the best rider in the field (come the second race day at least - not counting the Alaf' fairy tale). Everybody was scared of him. He made doubters believers (all but one obviously ). As tragic as it is, as unfair as it may be, it's cycling, it's life.

I still haven't got over it. I'm really, really sad. But I hope it was yet again, one more test in a journey to glory. Before this Tour, I thought that Thibaut Pinot had a chance to win a GT with some good fortune like Carapaz did. Now I think that he can go head to head with the big boys, take some hits but dish some out, and come out on top.

Allez Thibaut!

 

[RedheadDane]

Right, so the ending of the documentary is heartbreaking (though he does seem to have cheered up a bit by the very end.)
However, that scene where Thibaut and - I think - Rudy Molard are watching a rerun of the stage to Tourmalet and, most specifically, Madiot's reaction is rather funny. You can almost see them thinking that;
"Yup! Our boss is crazy!"