Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Leinster]

Ok, Froome is easily the best GT rider of this generation, but how the hell is Tom Dumoulin in a different league?!

Dumoulin’s last 3 GT finishes are 1, 2, 2. It was only a ride-for-the-ages from Froome that denied him the 2nd Giro. Injury, and a Sky rider on hot form are the only things that have beaten him at a GT since 2017. And he’s done that with weak/minimal team support.

 

[Blanco]

Dumoulin’s last 3 GT finishes are 1, 2, 2. It was only a ride-for-the-ages from Froome that denied him the 2nd Giro. Injury, and a Sky rider on hot form are the only things that have beaten him at a GT since 2017. And he’s done that with weak/minimal team support.

So Sky riders are in a different league compared to him, right?

 

[Red Rick]

So Sky riders are in a different league compared to him, right?

On The Day That Must Never Be Mentioned, yes.

Apart from that, 2nd in a post-Giro Tour despite losing 1 minute + to a mechanical is a great result.

 

[Blanco]

On The Day That Must Never Be Mentioned, yes.

Apart from that, 2nd in a post-Giro Tour despite losing 1 minute + to a mechanical is a great result.

He's a great rider, but he just simply is not in a different league than, let's say Roglic and Bernal for example.

 

[Red Rick]

He's a great rider, but he just simply is not in a different league than, let's say Roglic and Bernal for example.

Yeah no I'm not arguing he's in a different league.

 

[Simurgh]

Ok, Froome is easily the best GT rider of this generation, but how the hell is Tom Dumoulin in a different league?!

I just think that 2017 and 2018 Dumoulin as better GC-rider than anyone, who has challenged Froome after Contador's retirement and young Quintana. Nibali perhaps/probably the exception. He might not be Froome-tier, but I do think that he is somewhere between Froome-tier and Pinot/Bernal/others at that level-tier. Mainly because of his time trial, that gives him an edge against other GC riders. I can definitely be convinced that my thoughts about this specific topic are wrong though.

 

[tobydawq]

Valverde has most top 10s so is obviously the best Grand Tour rider ever.

 

[topcat]

Froome is finished. Dumoulin has a dodgy knee. Bernal/Nibali/Carapaz are the best. Pinot at his best is at the top level too. And this is the Pinot thread. Pinot for tdf 2020.

 

[tobydawq]

Froome is finished. Dumoulin has a dodgy knee. Bernal/Nibali/Carapaz are the best. Pinot at his best is at the top level too. And this is the Pinot thread. Pinot for tdf 2020.

So, Roglic is not in the top 6? Allright.

Even considering the fact that he just beat the best GC rider ever, cf. a clever post before yours?

 

[topcat]

So, Roglic is not in the top 6? Allright.

Even considering the fact that he just beat the best GC rider ever, cf. a clever post before yours?

Four of the six finished ahead of him. Bernal is the tdf winner and Pinot's best is better than Bernal's.
Roglic won a vuelta on an east route against lesser opponents.

 

[RedheadDane]

Four of the six finished ahead of him. Bernal is the tdf winner and Pinot's best is better than Bernal's.
Roglic won a vuelta on an east route against lesser opponents.

As opposed to a west route?
Best. Typo. Ever!

 

[macbindle]

Four of the six finished ahead of him. Bernal is the tdf winner and Pinot's best is better than Bernal's.
Roglic won a vuelta on an east route against lesser opponents.

Pinot's best is better than Bernal's?

Bernal won his second Tour. Pinot hasn't completed one for 4 years, has DNF'd more Tours than he has completed, and has only been in GC in two out of 7 attempts.

 

[RedheadDane]

Pinot's best is better than Bernal's?

Bernal won his second Tour. Pinot hasn't completed one for 4 years, has DNF'd more Tours than he has completed, and has only been in GC in two out of 7 attempts.

But when he's at his best he's brilliant! Which, unfortunately, rarely seems to be during the Tour... and sadly this year was one of the times when he was at his best during the Tour. Dunno if you saw, but he dropped Bernal at one point.
Then he got an injury in some stupid mundane way...

 

[topcat]

As opposed to a west route?
Best. Typo. Ever!

Yes I typed Nancy boy and it corrected it to east.

 

[Bolder]

I am a huge Pinotista but I can't say that at his best he's better than Bernal, simply because we have no idea what Bernal's "best" is -- he's only been a protected rider for 1 GT -- which he won, mind you.

If Bernal continues his trajectory he's going to win the TdF wire-to-wire in the next 2 years.

 

[Rollthedice]

I am a huge Pinotista but I can't say that at his best he's better than Bernal, simply because we have no idea what Bernal's "best" is -- he's only been a protected rider for 1 GT -- which he won, mind you.

If Bernal continues his trajectory he's going to win the TdF wire-to-wire in the next 2 years.

I had the same impression about Contador in 2009 and it proved to be his last. Nothing is a given especially these years when there's a more level and larger field of top GT contenders. I wouldn't go that far as to say Bernal is better or Roglic or Dumoulin. Also like Pino a lot and he still has a few years to try and win the TdF but it will be very hard. This was the year and disaster struck again.

 

[Red Rick]

Begs the question how big the improvement was precisely

 

[movingtarget]

I had the same impression about Contador in 2009 and it proved to be his last. Nothing is a given especially these years when there's a more level and larger field of top GT contenders. I wouldn't go that far as to say Bernal is better or Roglic or Dumoulin. Also like Pino a lot and he still has a few years to try and win the TdF but it will be very hard. This was the year and disaster struck again.

Contador was still winning grand tours just not the Tour. The second half of his career was marred by crashes at the Tour and by meeting Froome at his peak. Looks like Quintana's second half will be much worse than Contador's. Andy Schleck only managed one grand tour win after making the Giro podium at a very young age. He had every opportunity to win the 2008 and 2011 Tours and couldn't manage it. His career fell apart after that re injury and maybe lack of motivation. It's hard not to think that Pinot missed a big opportunity this year of at least a return to the podium. I could be wrong but I think Bernal won with something in hand so the final week still would have been a battle. Just a shame that Pinot got injured and the stages got shortened. Ruined the race for me.

 

[yaco]

Bernal undoubtedly has more improvement to come, though I tread warily regarding this years TDF - Once the race hit altitude is when Bernal came into his own which will not be a regular feature of GT's.

 

[movingtarget]

Bernal undoubtedly has more improveny to come, though I tread warily regarding this years TDF - Once the race hit altitude is when Bernal came into his own which will not be a regular feature of GT's.

Actually I think Thomas in last year's form would have won the Tour again but it wasn't to be. There's usually some high altitude stages in the Tour but the true mountain stages certainly meant the end for Alaphillipe. Will be interesting to see what sort of mountain stages will be offered next year in the Tour. I'm predicting that the TT km's will stay low. On a similar course to this year I think Ala will struggle while Pinot is always hard to predict pre race.

 

[Bolder]

Begs the question how big the improvement was precisely

Bernal's? That is a good question -- I'd say noticeable if not huge, and he benefits from being on Ineos vs., say FdJ...

We'll never know, although in 18 he was as strong as he needed to be -- and before the TdF last year he had big results in ToC, Colombia and Romandie, and won the Colombia ITT title. This year he upped his game with Paris-Nice, Suisse and Catalunya before the Tour. If he wins Lombardia or is very close, I think we can agree that he's got a lot of headroom in his career rather than just being a stage racer.

I actually think Pinot has made a real, and surprising, leap since 2017, despite the Giro disaster. At the end of last year he was as strong as anyone and his Italian campaign was unreal.

I've said this before but I think we're in something of a golden age as far as GT contenders. I think the Vuelta was a bit of a dud, but there are about a dozen riders who you can realistically peg as podium favorites in any given GT, either now or in the next 2 years -- and I'm not including guys like Bardet, Majka, Chaves, Aru and Mas, who seem to have taken backward steps but could rise from the semi-dead.

 

[Tonton]

The '19 GDL is behind us, Thibaut Pinot's season ended weeks ago, and on the eve of ASO unveiling the '20 TdF route, expectations are at an all-time high. Next year will certainly be the most important in Thibaut Pinot's career.

Looking back at his '19 campaign brings mixed feelings. One can see it as "the year that saw Thibaut Pinot get to the next level and become a legitimate GT contender". Another way to see it is as "the year that could have been"...

Five wins included the Tour du Haut Var plus its queen stage (Mont Faron), the Tour de l'Ain plus its queen stage atop the Grand Colombier, building up to a great form in July and the show of strength on the slopes of the Tourmalet followed by an even stronger display on Prat d'Albis for a second place.

It no longer is the story of a Big-3 or a Big-4 dominating all the Grand Tours. Super teams rule but conservative racing, multiple leaders and politics within teams give attackers a chance. Carapaz won Il Giro, Pinot was very close to winning The Tour, Roglic prevailed at La Vuelta. The landscape of pro cycling is evolving.

Tour, Olympics, RRWC are on the menu for '20. Thibaut Pinot will be hungry.

 

[cineteq]

Valverde has most top 10s so is obviously the best Grand Tour rider ever.

Sad but true

 

[JosephK]

I am a big Pinot fan. I wanted him to win the TDF like no other this year. His high/triumphant moments are momentous. But his lows . . . omg. Be careful in investing the emotions here. I am just speaking from a fan's perspective--still licking the wounds from stage 19. There will be so much pressure on him in 2020, I'm not sure it's realistic to hope for too much.

 

[Tonton]

I am a big Pinot fan. I wanted him to win the TDF like no other this year. His high/triumphant moments are momentous. But his lows . . . omg. Be careful in investing the emotions here. I am just speaking from a fan's perspective--still licking the wounds from stage 19. There will be so much pressure on him in 2020, I'm not sure it's realistic to hope for too much.

Too late...since '10 I have been following him, though the good, the bad, and the ugly. I thought that last year's Giro was as sad as it would ever get...

Tibopino is better than he's ever been, he has always bounced back, I want to believe that destiny has something special in store for him. Maybe the Gods of sport treat him like they treated Ivanisevic and the big win will be that much more compelling.