Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[ppanther92]

An entire nation is obsessed with his form, results and potential and every year after defeat and set backs he comes again gets up and tries to put himself back in the battle and you think he's fragile.

The same people who say he is fragile also say he should quit aiming for the top and become some average stage hunter well sorry but to me swapping your dreams for mediocrity is far more a sign of fragility than crying and getting a hug from a friend

Come on, of course he is fragile in some way or another. Every small hit leaves him in full despair, when he could have probably hid or overcame it in some instances. Speaking of "bad luck" is such a strange mindset when its always the same rider. And in my opinion, even the Dauphine this year was a good example that he can't cope well with the immense pressure put on him. After Roglic quitting the race, he was the obvious favourite for the win only for getting dropped by Martinez while again looking in total despair.

That said, he is a totally likeable guy and I admire him for his willingness to try over and over again. So he is in no way "soft" or "weak" in that sense. Also, the pressure coming from being French complicates things a lot. He would probably do better if he was not French, or put differently - I am sure there are not that many GC riders that would be totally unaffected by the amount of pressure coming from being expected to deliver a French Tour win.

 

[Breezy1985]

Come on, of course he is fragile in some way or another. Every small hit leaves him in full despair, when he could have probably hid or overcame it in some instances. Speaking of "bad luck" is such a strange mindset when its always the same rider. And in my opinion, even the Dauphine this year was a good example that he can't cope well with the immense pressure put on him. After Roglic quitting the race, he was the obvious favourite for the win only for getting dropped by Martinez while again looking in total despair.

That said, he is a totally likeable guy and I admire him for his willingness to try over and over again. So he is in no way "soft" or "weak" in that sense. Also, the pressure coming from being French complicates things a lot. He would probably do better if he was not French, or put differently - I am sure there are not that many GC riders that would be totally unaffected by the amount of pressure coming from being expected to deliver a French Tour win.

So he is not soft or weak but he is fragile. Not much difference between those words in a sporting context or otherwise

 

[skippo12]

Not looking injured right now. Don´t know what I should believe or not.

 

[RedheadDane]

Not looking injured right now. Don´t know what I should believe or not.

I hardly think he lost 20ish minutes and saw his GC aspirations fly away yesterday for fun...

 

[skippo12]

I hardly think he lost 20ish minutes and saw his GC aspirations fly away yesterday for fun...

Question is if he really needed to give up completly. Buchmann is hurt as well but continues to fight for the GC.

 

[Simurgh]

His attack instantly reminded me of Contador's farewell attack in the Tour 2016.

 

[macbindle]

His mental tibia is so fragile.

And the other 5 GT DNFs?

That is quite a palmares for a Tour "contender"

 

[macbindle]

Sure, Pinot has had a lot of bad luck. But you can't help but get the feeling that when it happens time and time again, it's not just bad luck. Theoretically speaking, the more "bad luck" you have, the less likely is it that it's just bad luck.

All riders crash from time to time - you can't avoid that, and you can call that bad luck. But it's very different how the riders react to those crashes and injuries. Physically, some simply recover better than others, and I think that Pinot simply just doesn't recover very well from injuries. Nothing wrong with that, that's just his body works. Regarding his psyche, I don't think he's mentally weak per se. He has bounced back from setbacks often enough that I don't think that's the case. But he does seem very erratic in that regard - I'm not sure how to put it in English, but he seems very "swingy" mentally.

^This. Entirely, and exactly. Once is an occurrence, twice is a coincidence....but 6 times? Get real.

Its the same reason why Wiggins only won one Tour. He didnt have the mental strength. Doesnt mean he's a horrid person, just means he lacks the axe-murderer element to his psyche.

Are any of you gamblers? How about this...if Pinot wins a Tour (ever) I will delete my account. If he doesnt win by the end of his career, you have to apologise. Deal?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

And the other 5 GT DNFs?
That is quite a palmares for a Tour "contender"

Tom Dumoulin have abandoned 4 of his last 8 GTs. Is he also a GC "contender"?

 

[macbindle]

Tom Dumoulin have abandoned 4 of his last 8 GTs. Is he also a GC "contender"?

Tom Dumoulin took a dump in a ditch, and still won the GT.

In between his last two DNFs he won one GT and came second in another two.

Pinot once came third about 6 years ago. No comparison.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Well apparently DNF's is what matters, the story behind each DNF does not. Or is that only when it comes to Pinot?

 

[macbindle]

Any wins?

Nope.

Any seconds?

Nope.

A third. Once. Years ago.

 

[LaFlorecita]

^This. Entirely, and exactly. Once is an occurrence, twice is a coincidence....but 6 times? Get real.

Its the same reason why Wiggins only won one Tour. He didnt have the mental strength. Doesnt mean he's a horrid person, just means he lacks the axe-murderer element to his psyche.

Are any of you gamblers? How about this...if Pinot wins a Tour (ever) I will delete my account. If he doesnt win by the end of his career, you have to apologise. Deal?

Contador, TDF 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Every year, the same story. Did he lack the mental strength as well?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Tom Dumoulin took a dump in a ditch, and still won the GT.

In between his last two DNFs he won one GT and came second in another two.

Pinot once came third about 6 years ago. No comparison.

I don't think anyone is arguing Pinot should have been a multi-GT winner??

 

[macbindle]

Contador, TDF 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Every year, the same story. Did he lack the mental strength as well?

What? Contador DNF'd twice in that period.

Plus he had already won 5 GTs by then.

Plus that period was after he came back from a doping ban. Wings clipped.

 

[macbindle]

I don't think anyone is arguing Pinot should have been a multi-GT winner??

They are arguing he is a serious contender.

I am saying he isnt.

 

[LaFlorecita]

They are arguing he is a serious contender.

I am saying he isnt.

Why is this discussion so important to you?

 

[macbindle]

Why is this discussion so important to you?

Why is it so important to you?

It's a cycling forum. This sub board is for talking about riders. People express opinions. You seem to have a problem with that.

Probably best that you dont try and get personal.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why is it so important to you?

It's a cycling forum. This sub board is for talking about riders. People express opinions. You seem to have a problem with that.

Probably best that you dont try and get personal.

I feel you are being unfair and unreasonable to a rider I like. That is why it is important to me. No one is claiming Pinot is a world beater, just that when he is in good form and the stars align he could be a contender for the win. Apparently for you, that is reason to come to his thread each time he fails to spew bile about how he is mentally weak. We know your opinion by now. It is clear many feel your opinion is ridiculous yet you still come to proclaim it. Are you just looking for an argument?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Why is this discussion so important to you?

Well, this is the "Thibaut Pinot discussion thread", right?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well, this is the "Thibaut Pinot discussion thread", right?

Incessantly arguing an unpopular argument about a rider in that rider's discussion thread could be considered baiting/trolling...

 

[LaFlorecita]

What I'm getting at is, what is the point of arguing about the same opinion over and over and over again, an opinion that many clearly feel is unreasonable. Isn't it purely to get into an argument with fans?

 

[macbindle]

I feel you are being unfair and unreasonable to a rider I like. That is why it is important to me. No one is claiming Pinot is a world beater, just that when he is in good form and the stars align he could be a contender for the win. Apparently for you, that is reason to come to his thread each time he fails to spew bile about how he is mentally weak. We know your opinion by now. It is clear many feel your opinion is ridiculous yet you still come to proclaim it. Are you just looking for an argument?

"Spew bile"?

Lol. It's an opinion. But it is an opinion that I have backed up with reason and evidence.

I havent launched into some sort of crazy personal attack on other posters, questioned their motivations. I know you have years of previous form on this, and I know you won't change and behave in an adult manner so I'm going to put you on ignore.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"Spew bile"?

Lol. It's an opinion. But it is an opinion that I have backed up with reason and evidence.

I havent launched into some sort of crazy personal attack on other posters, questioned their motivations. I know you have years of previous form on this, and I know you won't change and behave in an adult manner so I'm going to put you on ignore.

I wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, there is no way of ignoring your annoying presence in this thread.

 

[RedheadDane]

Incessantly arguing an unpopular argument about a rider in that rider's discussion thread could be considered baiting/trolling...

Besides... bit weird to constantly criticise someone for (supposedly) having mental health issues, especially not someone who's still able to fight his way back time after time.