Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Hugo Koblet]

Incessantly arguing an unpopular argument about a rider in that rider's discussion thread could be considered baiting/trolling...

What I'm getting at is, what is the point of arguing about the same opinion over and over and over again, an opinion that many clearly feel is unreasonable. Isn't it purely to get into an argument with fans?

I don't agree. Everyone should feel free to express their opinion. This isn't a thread for "fans" of Pinot. It's a thread to discuss the rider, his performances, strenghts, weakness, good performances - and bad ones as well. Whether the stated opinion is an unpopular one among the majority shouldn't matter. Without difference in opinion, there would be no discussion. And without people allowed to express those difference in opinion, there would be no discussion.

 

[macbindle]

Besides... bit weird to constantly criticise someone for (supposedly) having mental health issues, especially not someone who's still able to fight his way back time after time.

Constantly? The last time I posted on this thread was over a year ago.

Mental health issues? I didnt say Pinot had mental health issues.

Dont put words in my mouth.

 

[macbindle]

I don't agree. Everyone should feel free to express their opinion. This isn't a thread for "fans" of Pinot. It's a thread to discuss the rider, his performances, strenghts, weakness, good performances - and bad ones as well. Whether the stated opinion is an unpopular one among the majority shouldn't matter. Without difference in opinion, there would be no discussion. And without people allowed to express those difference in opinion, there would be no discussion.

^ This. Again. And thankyou.

It's really weird that a small handful of people are getting so stressed out by the notion that Pinot is not a likely GT winner....when ALL the evidence points to this being true

It's hardly a controversial opinion.

 

[RedheadDane]

Constantly? The last time I posted on this thread was over a year ago.

Mental health issues? I didnt say Pinot had mental health issues.

Dont put words in my mouth.

You keep saying he's "mentally weak", I just phrased it in a nicer way. But, no... you're not constantly in this thread; only when things are going bad. Seems like you aren't aware of his existence when things go well for him.

True, he might never win a GT, but he's still a great rider. He's still someone who clearly touches a lot of people's hearts.

 

[LaFlorecita]

^ This. Again. And thankyou.

It's really weird that a small handful of people are getting so stressed out by the notion that Pinot is not a likely GT winner....when ALL the evidence points to this being true

It's hardly a controversial opinion.

" a small handful of people are getting so stressed out by the notion that Pinot is not a likely GT winner...." ... no... people get annoyed when you claim he is mentally weak and fragile just because he has a more gentle personality and doesn't seem to be able to succeed in GTs. Case in point: arguing that he has a 'fragile ego' because one of his teammates put his arm around Thibaut's shoulder while he was having a tough time.

 

[macbindle]

You keep saying he's "mentally weak", I just phrased it in a nicer way.

That isnt a "nicer way". Its a nasty attempt to misrepresent what I said. Loads of riders lack the mental strength to win a GT. Wiggins just about scraped one in, as did Cadel Evans. You want examples of mental strength? Armstrong, Froome, Nibali, Yates (even though he hasn't won) absolute axe-men.

But, no... you're not constantly in this thread; only when things are going bad. Seems like you aren't aware of his existence when things go well for him.

If you look really closely you'll see I havent posted on CN for months.

True, he might never win a GT, but he's still a great rider. He's still someone who clearly touches a lot of people's hearts.

Good. We agree.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, physical injuries are character flaws.

Only on CN.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't agree. Everyone should feel free to express their opinion. This isn't a thread for "fans" of Pinot. It's a thread to discuss the rider, his performances, strenghts, weakness, good performances - and bad ones as well. Whether the stated opinion is an unpopular one among the majority shouldn't matter. Without difference in opinion, there would be no discussion. And without people allowed to express those difference in opinion, there would be no discussion.

I have no issue with a difference of opinion. Macbindle is welcome to come into this thread to argue why he feels Pinot won't win a big race. However, that is not what he is arguing, at least not in my view. He comes here to claim, over and over again, that Pinot is weak, fragile, has a fragile ego and whatnot. And as RedHeadedDane points out, macbindle seems to only have an interest in Pinot when he fails. He strolls into this thread, only to repeat almost ad verbum the fruitless discussion we had last year. I have to wonder, why? Is it to get a reaction out of Pinot's fans, or does he get off on tooting his own horn?

 

[lenric]

I don't agree. Everyone should feel free to express their opinion. This isn't a thread for "fans" of Pinot. It's a thread to discuss the rider, his performances, strenghts, weakness, good performances - and bad ones as well. Whether the stated opinion is an unpopular one among the majority shouldn't matter. Without difference in opinion, there would be no discussion. And without people allowed to express those difference in opinion, there would be no discussion.

This. The same happened in Contador's thread.

Pinot's a great rider. Unfortunately, he's always lacking something to win a GT and time's against him. Perhaps he should ditch the Tour and aim the Giro, or the Vuelta.

For years I have considered Bardet a better GT rider than him, even if his ceiling might be lower than Pinot's.

 

[Red Rick]

I think we can all agree whenever Pinot fails to read the same 3 Mac posts then there's no real need to keep up with the discussion cause we've really read all there is to read.

 

[macbindle]

Yes, physical injuries are character flaws.

Only on CN.

Managing injury is part of racing.

C'est toujours la volonté.

 

[Red Rick]

Managing injury is part of racing.

C'est toujours la volonté.

Yes, it makes total sense in French.

 

[macbindle]

Its always the power of will.

 

[DFA123]

I think we can all agree whenever Pinot fails to read the same 3 Mac posts then there's no real need to keep up with the discussion cause we've really read all there is to read.

In that case, there's not really need for any further discussion on Pinot. Because it's the same story every single year.

 

[macbindle]

Precisely

 

[RedheadDane]

BTW, he's still in the race - not that I doubted him. Hopefully he can get some intense treatment for his back on the rest day, take it easy for a few days - and I guess that would include not trying to set up team-mates, cool as that might be - and try to go for a stage win later on.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I have no issue with a difference of opinion. Macbindle is welcome to come into this thread to argue why he feels Pinot won't win a big race. However, that is not what he is arguing, at least not in my view. He comes here to claim, over and over again, that Pinot is weak, fragile, has a fragile ego and whatnot. And as RedHeadedDane points out, macbindle seems to only have an interest in Pinot when he fails. He strolls into this thread, only to repeat almost ad verbum the fruitless discussion we had last year. I have to wonder, why? Is it to get a reaction out of Pinot's fans, or does he get off on tooting his own horn?

I haven't paid any particular attention to macbindle's posting history, so I'm not gonna go too much into that, but from what I've seen he hasn't said anything offensive. And I think it's pretty normal to come into a thread to discuss one's view when new evidence or indication that support that comes into light.

 

[lenric]

BTW, he's still in the race - not that I doubted him. Hopefully he can get some intense treatment for his back on the rest day, take it easy for a few days - and I guess that would include not trying to set up team-mates, cool as that might be - and try to go for a stage win later on.

Or the polka jersey

 

[RedheadDane]

Or the polka jersey

Or both.

 

[macbindle]

BTW, he's still in the race - not that I doubted him. Hopefully he can get some intense treatment for his back on the rest day, take it easy for a few days - and I guess that would include not trying to set up team-mates, cool as that might be - and try to go for a stage win later on.

Stages 16, 17 and 18.

 

[RedheadDane]

Stages 16, 17 and 18.

One stage would also be fine.

 

[macbindle]

Well yes I meant those are the likely ones he can have a good go at.

 

[roundabout]

I haven't paid any particular attention to macbindle's posting history, so I'm not gonna go too much into that, but from what I've seen he hasn't said anything offensive. And I think it's pretty normal to come into a thread to discuss one's view when new evidence or indication that support that comes into light.

How many 'told you so' posts do you think is enougj?

 

[ppanther92]

Contador, TDF 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Every year, the same story. Did he lack the mental strength as well?

No, he lacked the physical strength.

But since it is the Pinot thread - Pinot would have not been able to handle the Lance situation for example. Pretty sure about that. Again, he obviously has the will (trying it over and ober again) but thats a different trait than handling pressure. I think its not a coincidence that "winner types" in sports are often described as a bit odd in "terms" of character. Not every one is born as GT winner, be it mentally or physically. No shame in that. I root for Pinot in the Tours. But I am convinced you can't call his failling rate coincidence. But maybe he still pulls it off one day. Just think ots highly unlikely.

 

[Eclipse]

One stage would also be fine.

Should win at least one if he stays in and polka dots looks like being a freebie for anyone decent who wants it. Minimal competition really if GC don't push the pace. There's not too many good climbers who aren't welded to team support or who should drop out and refocus (Buchmann). Only real worry would be Chaves as I don't think MS will make him sit with Yates.

I think they should just see how he feels after tomorrow and then make a call. I know it means a lot to him but there's plenty of other things he could achieve this season if he doesn't bury himself here

 

[Tonton]

Should win at least one if he stays in and polka dots looks like being a freebie for anyone decent who wants it. Minimal competition really if GC don't push the pace. There's not too many good climbers who aren't welded to team support or who should drop out and refocus (Buchmann). Only real worry would be Chaves as I don't think MS will make him sit with Yates.

I think they should just see how he feels after tomorrow and then make a call. I know it means a lot to him but there's plenty of other things he could achieve this season if he doesn't bury himself here

I agree with that. Today Pinot tried to fight back, hope for a miracle maybe, try to shake it off, it was the reaction of a champion who refuses what's happening to him. But what's the point if he can't push his body? Tomorrow will be decision day.

For the other points, we keep going around in circles, year after year, but we have come a long way...no more comparisons with Aru (who won a GT by the way, but with due respect isn't the rider that Pinot is), no more "Pinot is not podium material", the bar is higher than it was two-three-four years ago. Tibopino showed last year that he had it in him. One can argue that several one-time GT winners won one with luck, others like Pinot don't seem to have that luck: ask Kruijswijk. It's sports. It's cruel. It's life.

I'm not jumping off the bandwagon: Thibaut will bounce back, as always: a big win is coming up!