Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

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Hinault was harsh in his comments about Tibo, echoing some of the detractors. I have to mention it.

"Well, in my day, we were tougher...", no clinic talk..."II kept my promise to Greg", that's Hinault. Meh...

But I give him props: CdD '77, only Hinault would have won this bloody and hurt like that. LBL '80, no one went with him. Few finished. The list of DNF shows some tough guys tho'. Not tough enough?

Tough plenty.
 
Hinault was harsh in his comments about Tibo, echoing some of the detractors. I have to mention it.

"Well, in my day, we were tougher...", no clinic talk..."II kept my promise to Greg", that's Hinault. Meh...

But I give him props: CdD '77, only Hinault would have won this bloody and hurt like that. LBL '80, no one went with him. Few finished. The list of DNF shows some tough guys tho'. Not tough enough?

Tough plenty.
Well, Pinot v Hinault there's no comparison, but it's not really like v like. Is Pinot maybe a better Pascal Simon? A more honest Virenque? A tall Mottet?
 
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I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was the perhaps the most vivid representation I've seen of someone's head being gone. He's clearly an emotional lad but from a pro sportsman you usually expect your blow ups to be articulated in the classic Kevin Keegan style as opposed to looking completely defeated.
I like Pinot and am sad for him but am not surprised by what you’re saying about his interview. I can’t remember the situation but a few years ago (in 2015 maybe?) he had a mechanical then didn’t fix it right or something and had another and he just popped. Like you saw him give up in frustration just like that. I think he threw his bike or something. Anyone remember what I’m talking about? If he doesn’t already, he should consider meditation.
I hate to say it but, as a Pinot fan, there's always something. I'm a big fan and, don't get me wrong, he has infinitely more mental strength than I do, or even most of the peloton (you have to get anywhere near the top of the sport). However, he just doesn't have the same unflappable focus, toughness, and confidence of Froome, Nibali, or, I would say now, Roglic (Dumoulin appears to have retreated into Pinot territory). This isn't to say that he doesn't have back pain, nor that he didn't have quad pain last year, but I'm sure Froome would have won a Tour if you had him experience Pinot's crashes and bad luck. There's always something...I really hope next year is the year he pulls it all together.
 
Hinault was harsh in his comments about Tibo, echoing some of the detractors. I have to mention it.

"Well, in my day, we were tougher...", no clinic talk..."II kept my promise to Greg", that's Hinault. Meh...

But I give him props: CdD '77, only Hinault would have won this bloody and hurt like that. LBL '80, no one went with him. Few finished. The list of DNF shows some tough guys tho'. Not tough enough?

Tough plenty.
Yes but irrelevant to Pinot's back problem. Hinault couldn't ride with a sciatic or femoral nerve acting up either. Being tough has little to do with muscles that won't function in that situation. Unless you had a good doctor with a nerve block injection....
 
Yeah, they've always been tougher... they would tell somebody in a wheel-chair that if they were in his position they'd get up and walk... it's all about the willpower...

Some people can just not admit and be thankful that in addition to their mental strength, focus, discipline and ambition, they have also been gifted and lucky. It obviously helps their self-confidence, but it really annoys me when they talk other people down while not recognizing these factors.

Do we really think Pinot wasn't so hurt badly that he could not go on last year, that he could be among the best this year, if he just showed more mental strength?

Or do we assume "it's all psychosomatic"?
 
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Still I don't get it. Somebody has health issues, in this case probably the effects of the Dauphiné-crash, last year as well, and you think a change of scenery could help?
I am all for change of scenerie in general, and I wonder why all those French riders have to be at French teams, but I can't see how this would help Pinot.
 
Too late, I've seen it. :) Its weird how everyone is now agreeing with me.
I'm not. I'm just saying that that's how he is, not that it's a bad thing, it's just his personality. Probably the same reason - as Tonton mentioned above - why he won't move away from the small town where he grew up.

I don't think of him like you but I do think a different team can be good. Look what happened with Quintana, another rider deemed mentally weak when he changed teams.
I think the difference is that Quintana clearly wasn't feeling at home on Movistar (at least not by the end), whereas Pinot seems very much at home at FDJ.

Still I don't get it. Somebody has health issues, in this case probably the effects of the Dauphiné-crash
I suspect it was the effects of the stage 1 crash.
 
I don't think of him like you but I do think a different team can be good. Look what happened with Quintana, another rider deemed mentally weak when he changed teams.
In a some (but not all) ways Pinot reminds me of Cadel Evans. It always struck me that the one thing Evans had to conquer in order to win was himself. It's the top of top level sport and everything has to slot into place: physical fitness, resistance to illness, bike handling, race tactics, roadcraft, and psychology.

(And before anybody starts up about Pinot's injury last year, that was one thing only. With Pinot there is always something).

The comparison ends there because Evans was not a pleasant person and his team hated him. I'm sure people remember that Tour when his team stopped riding for him.
 
In a some (but not all) ways Pinot reminds me of Cadel Evans. It always struck me that the one thing Evans had to conquer in order to win was himself. It's the top of top level sport and everything has to slot into place: physical fitness, resistance to illness, bike handling, race tactics, roadcraft, and psychology.

(And before anybody starts up about Pinot's injury last year, that was one thing only. With Pinot there is always something).

The comparison ends there because Evans was not a pleasant person and his team hated him. I'm sure people remember that Tour when his team stopped riding for him.
I don't see any similarities between Evans and Pinot apart from a certain level of misfortune in races. Evans was a much better bike handler, descender, TT rider and a more consistent climber. Neither are pure climbers. Last year was Pinot's big chance as his TT was a good one for him and he was climbing as well as anyone. Whether he hits that sort of form in the Tour again remains to be seen. When Pinot has five podiums in grand tours and a world championship the comparison might be more realistic. That said, at the moment Pinot looks like the only French rider with a shot at winning a grand tour but he has to start converting his opportunities. Martin has shown improvement while Bardet has his podiums but is no closer to a win. Pogacar, Bernal and others have already arrived and there are more on the way. So it doesn't get any easier from now on for the older second tier riders.
 
We are at a time when youngsters are coming up through the ranks fast! Besides, judging by his comments after stage 8, Pinot seems to have reached a point where he's simply had enough of trying, only to have something happen. Will be interesting to see what he - and the team - does for the Vuelta.
 
I wouldn't describe Pinot as "weak", mentally. I mean he's overcome a lot of bad luck over the years. That said, I find he has a tendancy to lose it. The way he threw his bottle on the ground when he didn't have the legs at the Dauphiné, the way he exploded on the cobblestones stage in the Tour, the year he had a mechanical incident there... I don't think we see too many other riders react like that.
The Dauphiné is really interesting because Pinot was perfectly fine before he found himself in the lead. He went into a pack mode as soon as he was attacked. He's never as strong as when he is the underdog. Tourmalet last year, Lombardia...
It would also be interesting to know how he found himself working for Bardet and Alaphilippe for the 2018 worlds, where he was probably stronger than Alaphilippe.
He reminds me of Jean François Bernard a lot.
he was also very good at time trials one year but seems to have lost that ability. How come ?
That man is an enigma. Sometimes I get the feeling he'd be way happier in his farm with his animals than on a bike. And there' nothing wrong with that.
 
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Slowly improving. Perhaps he might still recover in time to have a go at the polka dots? ("better" than stage win imo, which he btw got last year on Tourmalet no less - besides, winning the KoM is probably the only way he'll ever stand on top of a podium in Paris :D ) Its a minor miracle that Cosnefroy still wears it with 30-something points
 
I wouldn't describe Pinot as "weak", mentally. I mean he's overcome a lot of bad luck over the years. That said, I find he has a tendancy to lose it. The way he threw his bottle on the ground when he didn't have the legs at the Dauphiné, the way he exploded on the cobblestones stage in the Tour, the year he had a mechanical incident there... I don't think we see too many other riders react like that
You see, to me, those are signs of mental weakness. Cracking under pressure. I don't think "bad luck" is always bad luck either. There is a skill to staying out of trouble. Also having a strong team that can keep you out of trouble.

I was really struck by Armstrong doing a huge skiddy crash in one of his comeback years. I'd never seen him do that before. By and large he avoided crashing during his 99-05 reign. That wasnt 'good luck'. It was skill.
 
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You see, to me, those are signs of mental weakness. Cracking under pressure. I don't think "bad luck" is always bad luck either. There is a skill to staying out of trouble. Also having a strong team that can keep you out of trouble.

I was really struck by Armstrong doing a huge skiddy crash in one of his comeback years. I'd never seen him do that before. By and large he avoided crashing during his 99-05 reign. That wasnt 'good luck'. It was skill.
Sometimes all the luck is in your hand and then you lose it or vice versa.
 
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