Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't it be better if FDJ got him some support in rather than him moving, what is their budget like?

Also in response to checkmypecs:

Pinot's contract ends at the end of the year. In an article a couple of months ago, Thibaut said that he didn't want more $ for himself but he wants FDJ's budget to be higher (it's about half of what the top teams budget is) so the team gets stronger. Pinot wants his contract to be done early in the year so it doesn't become a distraction. He's not being unreasonable (what's an extra 5-10 million Euros for the lottery?) nor greedy IMO. On the flip-side, it's likely that the French lottery will want him on the TdF every year...

Depends on whether having a stronger team will give FDJ exposure worth more than 10 million.

 

[Simurgh]

This is the year, where people won't doubt his abilities anymore! Show 'em, man!

 

[del1962]

While I appreciate that the competition wasn't top draw, he seems to have a new found confidence this year, I hope he can maintain it when the pressure really comes on, anyway great win today

 

[johnymax]

The result isn't surprising at all, but he's done a wonderful job. Looking forward for him to mix it up with the big boys in the next races.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Wouldn't it be better if FDJ got him some support in rather than him moving, what is their budget like?

Also in response to checkmypecs:

Pinot's contract ends at the end of the year. In an article a couple of months ago, Thibaut said that he didn't want more $ for himself but he wants FDJ's budget to be higher (it's about half of what the top teams budget is) so the team gets stronger. Pinot wants his contract to be done early in the year so it doesn't become a distraction. He's not being unreasonable (what's an extra 5-10 million Euros for the lottery?) nor greedy IMO. On the flip-side, it's likely that the French lottery will want him on the TdF every year...

Depends on whether having a stronger team will give FDJ exposure worth more than 10 million.

I should imagine FDJ have near-univeral brand penetration even without sponsoring a small cycling team. As the inrng sponsorship article points out, there's a logo on every tabac in France, and there's tabacs everywhere, while for obvious reasons they have no need for exposure internationally. If you're involved enough in the world to watch cyling, you probably know about the national lottery. FDJ's involvement with the team is, I think, equivalent to our National Lottery's involvement with British cycling; an exercise in PR or altruism, depending on your viewpoint, to justify its monopoly (in France), to expiate the sin of gambling, and to encourage those who may look down on the lottery to buy tickets so as to further the public good. I think FDJ will boost the budget, but not by all that much.

 

[Simurgh]

Nice result today, and I can definitely see him top 5, and I can spot the podium in the horizon..

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Nice result today, and I can definitely see him top 5, and I can spot the podium in the horizon..

Podium most definitely imo. Remember, he's a TT specialist now.

 

[Taxus4a]

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

 

[johnymax]

Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Was just thinking about this yesterday. I agree with you, Pinot is clearly the better rider this season so far.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Was just thinking about this yesterday. I agree with you, Pinot is clearly the better rider this season so far.

But will it transition into the Tour? I say yes.

 

[johnymax]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Was just thinking about this yesterday. I agree with you, Pinot is clearly the better rider this season so far.

But will it transition into the Tour? I say yes.

I don't know. I think they will be close. But let's say Aru is 3rd and Pinot is 5th, I don't care. I still have Pinot ahead because of other results throughout the season.

 

[Cannibal72]

Pinot's descending today was good for anyone, but leading the yellow jersey group on a reasonably technical descent is outstanding for him. Pinot ftw!

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Nice result today, and I can definitely see him top 5, and I can spot the podium in the horizon..

The Aia stage is crucial for him, he must hold strongest wheels on that climb. If the likes of Henao, Contador or Samu get a gap there, it will be hard to brought them back

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

Out of the new crop of riders I really like Pinot (along with Aru and Chaves), but this year he won't win Pais Vasco. AC will. Once AC has retired he can win as much as he wants.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

I think he is on par with Landa in terms of GT, and ahead of Aru in terms of highest level they can achieve

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

I think he is on par with Landa in terms of GT, and ahead of Aru in terms of highest level they can achieve

So do you think Aru has sort of reached his highest level and Pinot is yet to reach his? Or do you think neither has reached their highest potential, but when they do Pinot will have a higher level?

 

[SafeBet]

Aru is a GT rider, he has never done much in one week stage races. His season will be judged on his Tour de France performance.

That being said, Pinot is to me a more complete rider. I'm almost sure he's going to win a WT race like Romandie or Catalunya at some point in his career and he has a legitimate shot at some classics too. As for GTs, I'm not sure. Aru seems to be one of those riders who refuses to quit no matter what happens, he has a tremendous mental strength. He is a cagnaccio (as we say in italian). That's why he still has the edge over Pinot in Grand Tours, at least until I see the same tenacity and drive from the frenchman.

 

[Cannibal72]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

I think he is on par with Landa in terms of GT, and ahead of Aru in terms of highest level they can achieve

So do you think Aru has sort of reached his highest level and Pinot is yet to reach his? Or do you think neither has reached their highest potential, but when they do Pinot will have a higher level?

At the risk of answering a question directed to someone else, I'd point out that Aru has had one of the strongest GC teams in the world backing him in the full, while Pinot simply hasn't (although I still think he should stay at FDJ.)
I think Aru will develop into being one of the best GC riders in the world, but perhaps more thanks to the decline of the old guard than to him reaching another level of his development; I think Pinot still could reach another level, better than Aru's. As is pointed out above, Pinot is a pretty impressive all-rounder, who I think will end up winning quite a few of the hilly classics (LBL probably too easy, GDL very good), and challenging in GTs (especially the Giro).

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Out of the new crop of riders I really like Pinot (along with Aru and Chaves), but this year he won't win Pais Vasco. AC will. Once AC has retired he can win as much as he wants.

Would you rather have Bertie win this and not the Tour ? Because for Contador's fans, there'sonly once race that counts in '16, and it's in July.

When I see what I see, I think that Tibopino can be a factor in July too, top-5, maybe a little better if some of the favorites DNF. But first things first: a career-best finish at he VaPV is realistic, a podium likely...good.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

At Algarve Pinot was at Contador level, becoue contadorr was just 6 seconds above in GC, in Malhao yes, contador was superb, butI couldnt see all the climb to have a better opinion. We will see in Arrate. He prefer longer climbs, Contador is a little bit better in this 2-4 km climbs, but Arrate stage if good to have better opinions.

Pinot is a climber, but he is trialing this year really strong. In algarve was 1 second better than contador, who did well to be a totally flat ITT with cobbles. Pinot was seond ar Beseges ITT, beating very goodd peopl in TT as Peraud, Chavanel....

In Tirreno he wasnt superb but just one second worse than Nibali, and this one was even more flat than Algarve.

In CI he was impressing by wining the ITT.

He looks even he is descending with confidence.

At the moment in Basque country he just losed one second with Contador. It is early to say he is this year below Contador IMO, and I think in any case is not a notable difference.

To rate Landa is very early as well, we will see his level later. Respect last year it is difficult to compare.

PInot, Landa, Aru and Quintana are from the same generation of very impressive climbers. Chaves as well. The best rider is Quintana, but the rest are very close and Pinot is demostrating he can do ITT in the flat Quintana cant dream (although he is quite good as well). But maybe is a question of weather, with hot maybe Quintana is better in iTT as well.

Respect Pinot ITT, it is not new:

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=26383

But what he shows now is better.

I dont say Aru is not good, of course, but Landa was a great help to be second at the Giro and to win la Vuelta. Tour is at another level and Pinot has been podium, so we will see, at least it is not clear Aru is better.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Out of the new crop of riders I really like Pinot (along with Aru and Chaves), but this year he won't win Pais Vasco. AC will. Once AC has retired he can win as much as he wants.

Would you rather have Bertie win this and not the Tour ? Because for Contador's fans, there'sonly once race that counts in '16, and it's in July.

And I quite agree, I hope they still think that way at August.

 

[Taxus4a]

In fact , I would like to see better Malhao climb, and previous Km...Pinot is at this video at 27 second from Contador, and he finished at 20, he is just flying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwdipGczhpA

 

[Tonton]

Re:

In fact , I would like to see better Malhao climb, and previous Km...Pinot is at this video at 27 second from Contador, and he finished at 20, he is just flying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwdipGczhpA

When do you sleep man ?

There's not much footage, but yes, Pinot made up 7 seconds on Contador on Malhao after that shot (with about 1K to go). No one else did. I was impressed, but on short climbs, although I see progress and he said he worked on it, he's still not as explosive as others. Like Froome...and Froome's the guy to beat.

Not that Pinot can challenge Froome now. But for all of them, you have to be better at something to have hope.

 

[Alexandre B.]

I was worried by this stage because Henao and Contador are stronger on those gradients but he managed to not lose any time.

I hope he'll gap Kelderman, Samu and other decent time trialists that are not better than him as climbing tomorrow.