Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

Maybe is time to come back to Algarve discussion about Pinot and Aru.

This year so far Pinot is better, maybe is the weather, but there is a clear difference.

Thanks Taxus4a .

Seriously, it's very encouraging. The descent was great as Cannibal72 noted. Mentally, he seems to be stronger. And when he feels good in his head, he can descend. He was criticized for going to the Criterium International, but the way he spoke beforehand (I'm gonna win it) was something new. And he delivered: maybe his way to turn the page and go from being young, somewhat insecure and underachiever to becoming a legitimate team leader, a strong rider with ambitions.

Of course, he's not at Froome-Contador level, or at Nibali-Quitana level, but just below with Aru and Landa. So far in '16 maybe a little bit better. He can win the Vuelta a Pais Vasco. I sure hope so.

I think he is on par with Landa in terms of GT, and ahead of Aru in terms of highest level they can achieve

So do you think Aru has sort of reached his highest level and Pinot is yet to reach his? Or do you think neither has reached their highest potential, but when they do Pinot will have a higher level?

I think that the best climbing performance that Pinot is capable of is better than best climbing performances than Aru is capable of at this moment in their careers. Same with TT. Can't really speculate about the future development

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I was worried by this stage because Henao and Contador are stronger on those gradients but he managed to not lose any time.

I hope he'll gap Kelderman, Samu and other decent time trialists that are not better than him as climbing tomorrow.

I was worried too. The course of this VaPV doesn't suit him well, and so far Tibopino is exceeding my expectations. Not that I thought he couldn't ride at that level (of course ), but he's riding strong. Today was the kind of stages where Thibaut has often lost 5,10, 15 seconds. That's maturity. And again, a nice descent, too bad he and Aru couldn't keep it going.

I can't wait until tomorrow. And further down the road ...

 

[Taxus4a]

Today Pinot was impressive in the descent catching Aru, maybe they read this.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Great pacing today. He couldn't manage to equal Contador-Henao accelerations but great effort nonetheless.

I'll be reasonable and I'm just hoping for a podium overall - his first at World Tour level since Tour de France 2014.

 

[Simurgh]

Re:

Great pacing today. He couldn't manage to equal Contador-Henao accelerations but great effort nonetheless.

I'll be reasonable and I'm just hoping for a podium overall - his first at World Tour level since Tour de France 2014.

It will be a great result, and a definite consolidation as an almost-top tier rider (just below Froome, Quintana and Contador)!

Even though Alberto is a favourite, I hope (and believe) that Thibaut can beat him, if he got golden legs tomorrow and Contador has an average day. If he can beat him, the overall is Pinots.

 

[Metabolol]

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

 

[rm7]

Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

 

[Alexandre B.]

I'm still haunted by Gallopin's failure at Paris-Nice last year, to be honest.

That's why I'm worried, even for a podium finish.
(that climb is so steep)

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

5th-10th would be a failure. 3rd-5th is perfectly normal to expect, given the level he has shown this spring. If things align particularly well, it could be even better.

 

[SeriousSam]

I haven't really followed Pinot closely this year. What is the notion that he has joined the ranks of the elite time triallers based on, exactly?

(Referring to PV, not the Tour)

 

[rm7]

Re: Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

5th-10th would be a failure. 3rd-5th is perfectly normal to expect, given the level he has shown this spring. If things align particularly well, it could be even better.

The thing is, that he has never shown the ability to climb with the best guys in a GT. It's a whole different story in one week races.

I don't think he'll be able to ride with those guys in back-to-back mountain stages.

 

[rm7]

I haven't really followed Pinot closely this year. What is the notion that he has joined the ranks of the elite time triallers based on, exactly?

(Referring to PV, not the Tour)

He won the TT in Criterium international, and FDJ have done very well in the TT's and TTT all year. I'm not really sure about the details, but thats what i've seen and heard.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

5th-10th would be a failure. 3rd-5th is perfectly normal to expect, given the level he has shown this spring. If things align particularly well, it could be even better.

The thing is, that he has never shown the ability to climb with the best guys in a GT. It's a whole different story in one week races.

I don't think he'll be able to ride with those guys in back-to-back mountain stages.

He is on a different level in Pais Vasco right now, than he has been at any stage race before. That includes Tour 2014.

Main question about about him is, how he is able to manage the pressure of expectations in the Tour, which is only getting bigger after a spring campaign he is having. By physical abilities, he is at least the best of the rest after the big three (of those going to the Tour).

 

[Cannibal72]

I haven't really followed Pinot closely this year. What is the notion that he has joined the ranks of the elite time triallers based on, exactly?

(Referring to PV, not the Tour)

He won the TT in Criterium international, and FDJ have done very well in the TT's and TTT all year. I'm not really sure about the details, but thats what i've seen and heard.

Excellent performance in the ITT at T-A as well, iirc.

I wish Pinot were going to the Giro this year, but I think that this new-found TTing ability holds him in very good stead for a podium at the Tour. The third spot on the podium is - barring injuries/accidents - going to be a fight between Aru, Quintana, and Pinot, and I suspect it will be a lot closer than most believe.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

I think top three is definitely possible. Mentally, he has to go for top three. I don't think he can reach Froome's peak numbers but if he can stay close he can outclimb Froome over several mountain stages. He is also TTing better than ever. Obviously there is no room for error, he can't play catch up due to poor teamwork. But just as Pinot has stepped up, so has FDJ. I believe they will be much more of a factor than previously.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Every year TP seems to get a little bit better in some area of the discipline. Last year he started winning summit finishes with late attacks (e.g. at Romandie and Suisse). This year he's become a decent TT guy and his team has also taken it up a notch in terms of protecting him and the TTT. He still doesn't have a killer weapon in the arsenal, but he's turning into someone who could win a big stage race through sheer well-roundedness.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Pinot can win the whole race! Not just podium. Pinot is in excellent shape he just lacks a little bit of explosiveness. In long hard climbs and GTs with multiple mountain stages he will show an even higher level.

Hmm., if what you say is true, he'll be with the best at the Tour. I agree that this wasn't his typical favorite terrain, but I dont think he'll be able to follow Froome, Quintana and Contador in the high HC mountains.

He'll be between 5th-10th in the Tour this year. Probably 5th-7th.

I think top three is definitely possible. Mentally, he has to go for top three. I don't think he can reach Froome's peak numbers but if he can stay close he can outclimb Froome over several mountain stages. He is also TTing better than ever. Obviously there is no room for error, he can't play catch up due to poor teamwork. But just as Pinot has stepped up, so has FDJ. I believe they will be much more of a factor than previously.

I agree with this. Pinot, at this point, seems like the safest bet after Quinco, Conta and Froome. Aru has had a very poor spring and big question marks still hauls over the BMC-guys and I can't see anyone realistically do better than Pinot than them. Should aim for podium, but top-5 isn't bad either, especially not with a stage win or some awesome climbing display along the way.

 

[yaco]

Pinot is a solid time trialler. You need to compare him with GC guys not specialist tt riders.

 

[Tonton]

I haven't really followed Pinot closely this year. What is the notion that he has joined the ranks of the elite time triallers based on, exactly?

(Referring to PV, not the Tour)

Criterium International Stage 2 ITT (same course for all editions):

9'07" Dumoulin '14
9'10" Dennis '14 - Porte '13
9'11" Pinot '16 - Felline '15 - TJVG '13
9'12" Jungels '15 - Froome '13
9'13" Coppel '16
9'16" Perault '16
9'17" Pinot '15 - Jungels '14 and '13 - Perault '13
9'18" Perault '14 - Coppel '14
9'20" Navardauskas '15
9'21" Navardauskas '16 and '14 a.k.a Mr. Consistency.
9'28" Perault '15

Much shorter course of course, but he's in good company. If you ITT at Jungels level, that's (much) more than decent. In two years, he went from losing 2+" per km to the best, to one second (more or less). The course tomorrow is not a typical flat ITT.But Thibaut will get splits and should beat the guys who will start before him. The question is: can he beat the other two? I'm not sure, but before the race started, I would have signed with both hands if someone had told me that Tibopino would be 10 seconds down on the eve of the final stage.

He has got a shot.

 

[Brullnux]

He has a great chance, but I'd say Contador is favourite. 2nd is quite likely, unless Purio can find another TT like last year.

 

[Taxus4a]

I talked with a man today who was in Arrate and did the descent of the ITT, He tol me is quite dangerous, and much more with rain.

By the way, he show me his strava and Pinot hold the record in Matsaria, My friend https://www.facebook.com/carlosbi.apm?fref=ts Biziosona blog, did the climb just 2 minutes slower than Pinot with a 11 Kg bike (1500 VAM).. so impressive (he was fourth in traamreican last year, anuway)

I think that Pinot payed a little today he was trying to catch Aru yesterday and to try to follow Contador, it is Henao who should answer that attack. For tomorrow I am worry for the downhill, but I think he is stronger he shows today and he will do a very good ascent.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Another 4th place.

 

[Simurgh]

A bit disappointing, but it doesn't change the fact, that he has ridden a very good race (and has had a great spring campaign).

 

[Alexandre B.]

Anyway, that's looking good for Romandie. Bring the podium!

 

[Jelantik]

Not a bad result for Pinot. He is by far the most improving rider this year. If he can get his ITT sorted out, he can be a serious GT contender on his new generation against Quintana, Bardet, Kelderman, Tejay etc. (all young next generation after Contador/Froome/Nibali)