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Re:
lenric: he did not.
Tonton: he did.
lenric: he did not.
Tonton: he did.
The closest to a GT winner since Jalabert's Vuelta win. You may not agree, you got your opinion. Fine. Don't smear him to make your point though. You are biased against him for some unknown reason. I'm biased but at least I own it. You don't. That's hypocrisy.
He did.lenric said:
lenric: he did not.
Tonton: he did.
lenric: he did not.
Tonton: he did.
The closest to a GT winner since Jalabert's Vuelta win. You may not agree, you got your opinion. Fine. Don't smear him to make your point though. You are biased against him for some unknown reason. I'm biased but at least I own it. You don't. That's hypocrisy.
Re: Re:
Relax, you're too nervous.
I'm not smearing Pinot, just stating that a rider who got a podium 10 minutes behind Nibali and half a minute behind a 37-year old french guy can't be constantly put on the same spot as a 2-time TDF podium (Bardet) against guys like Quintana and Froome, or a 2-time GT podium in the same season against an arguably tougher competition, like Chaves, or even against a GT-winner and multiple podium, like Aru.
I'm speaking about results, not about potential.
I know you fancy Pinot and all that, but I have always been the one here who pointed results in GTs and the competition faced, which are the premises of my conclusion, instead of results in the Tour de L'Avenir from 7 years ago or whatever. So relax a bit, instead of shooting "you're an hypocrate" irrationally. That's an odd behavior, especially for a moderator.
Tonton said:
Relax, you're too nervous.
I'm not smearing Pinot, just stating that a rider who got a podium 10 minutes behind Nibali and half a minute behind a 37-year old french guy can't be constantly put on the same spot as a 2-time TDF podium (Bardet) against guys like Quintana and Froome, or a 2-time GT podium in the same season against an arguably tougher competition, like Chaves, or even against a GT-winner and multiple podium, like Aru.
I'm speaking about results, not about potential.
I know you fancy Pinot and all that, but I have always been the one here who pointed results in GTs and the competition faced, which are the premises of my conclusion, instead of results in the Tour de L'Avenir from 7 years ago or whatever. So relax a bit, instead of shooting "you're an hypocrate" irrationally. That's an odd behavior, especially for a moderator.
Re: Re:
Both Pinot and Bardet need work on their TT. Yes it's obvious but until that final TT in grand tours can be improved they will struggle to win one because even though they climb well, they are not superior to a few others, who also have better TTs. I was surprised by Pinot in the Giro, I didn't expect him to be that good. Consistency wins grand tours and Pinot sometimes has one day where he under achieves but the margins are small. The difference between Froome, Nibali and Contador and the rest. If Aru and Dumoulin can win a GT Pinot should be able to win one. It's a matter of a percent point or two.
Tonton said:
Both Pinot and Bardet need work on their TT. Yes it's obvious but until that final TT in grand tours can be improved they will struggle to win one because even though they climb well, they are not superior to a few others, who also have better TTs. I was surprised by Pinot in the Giro, I didn't expect him to be that good. Consistency wins grand tours and Pinot sometimes has one day where he under achieves but the margins are small. The difference between Froome, Nibali and Contador and the rest. If Aru and Dumoulin can win a GT Pinot should be able to win one. It's a matter of a percent point or two.
Tonton said:It was a good day for Batman Tibopino and his Robin David Gaudu. Big show of strength. Maybe the field wasn't that strong, but still, Geniez and Kruijswijk (in particular) are no slouch.
And what a classy gesture by Pinot. FDJ aren't as successful as the Sky guys, but they don't race against their own. You have class or you don't. You can't buy it.
Cheers!
Lacks killer instinct unlike someone like Hinaut. I guess you think Hinault never had class
Re:
So 3rd and 4th in GT and 2 more Top 10's isn't close to 2nd and 3rd plus 2 top 10's?
lenric said:
So 3rd and 4th in GT and 2 more Top 10's isn't close to 2nd and 3rd plus 2 top 10's?
del1962 said:Tonton said:It was a good day for Batman Tibopino and his Robin David Gaudu. Big show of strength. Maybe the field wasn't that strong, but still, Geniez and Kruijswijk (in particular) are no slouch.
And what a classy gesture by Pinot. FDJ aren't as successful as the Sky guys, but they don't race against their own. You have class or you don't. You can't buy it.
Cheers!
Lacks killer instinct unlike someone like Hinaut. I guess you think Hinault never had class
Hinault had class before he tried to do the dirty on Lemond but why talk about Hinault and Pinot. Apart from having names that rhyme they have nothing in common ! I think Hinault was more feared than liked in the peloton but many champions have that bully like arrogance about them.
Re: Re:
I think it will all boil down to in what GTs were those results obtained and, hence, the average level of the competition faced, won't it? I have already written this, all it took was a scroll up.
Blanco said:lenric said:
So 3rd and 4th in GT and 2 more Top 10's isn't close to 2nd and 3rd plus 2 top 10's?
I think it will all boil down to in what GTs were those results obtained and, hence, the average level of the competition faced, won't it? I have already written this, all it took was a scroll up.
Re:
...
Let me cheer some more: the final stage of the Tour de l'Ain just ended. Tibopino attacked in the Grand Colombier (via Lochieu), dropped everybody, but was caught in the run-in to the finish and placed second, out-sprinted by Alexandre Geniez. Thibaut wins the overall classification.
One more win in '17 (and it rhymes ).
HilariousNetserk said:Tonton has been spotted elsewhere on the internet!
...Let me cheer some more: the final stage of the Tour de l'Ain just ended. Tibopino attacked in the Grand Colombier (via Lochieu), dropped everybody, but was caught in the run-in to the finish and placed second, out-sprinted by Alexandre Geniez. Thibaut wins the overall classification.
One more win in '17 (and it rhymes
).
Re: Re:
So you can calculate the average level of competiton one rider faces in a race? Interesting...
Tell me then please in which races Bardet and Chaves had monster competition, and Pinot hadn't. Famous Tour 2014? May I remind you that Pinot beat certain Alejandro Valverde in that Tour. Same Valverde who climbed almost on par with Contador and Froome only month later. Same Valverde who was only 25 sec behind Chaves in Giro 2016. Which performance of Chaves and Bardet stands so much above Pinot's? I don't see any...
lenric said:Blanco said:lenric said:
So 3rd and 4th in GT and 2 more Top 10's isn't close to 2nd and 3rd plus 2 top 10's?
I think it will all boil down to in what GTs were those results obtained and, hence, the average level of the competition faced, won't it? I have already written this, all it took was a scroll up.
So you can calculate the average level of competiton one rider faces in a race? Interesting...
Tell me then please in which races Bardet and Chaves had monster competition, and Pinot hadn't. Famous Tour 2014? May I remind you that Pinot beat certain Alejandro Valverde in that Tour. Same Valverde who climbed almost on par with Contador and Froome only month later. Same Valverde who was only 25 sec behind Chaves in Giro 2016. Which performance of Chaves and Bardet stands so much above Pinot's? I don't see any...
Re: Re:
Well, you can't deny the results of Bardet are better, and are all in the most important GT of the year.
A podium spot in the tour is a much better result than 4th place in the giro.
Blanco said:lenric said:
So 3rd and 4th in GT and 2 more Top 10's isn't close to 2nd and 3rd plus 2 top 10's?
Well, you can't deny the results of Bardet are better, and are all in the most important GT of the year.
A podium spot in the tour is a much better result than 4th place in the giro.
Re: Re:
No, but I can see you're good at straw man fallacies.
Claiming the average level of a GT (at least, the competition, since Nibali was so much better than everyone else) where the top-10 was separated by 20 minutes (and the top-3 was separated by 8 minutes) is lower than the one of a GT where the top-10 is separated by 7 minutes is quite different than your interpretation of what I wrote (which made you fall into a fallacy). You know, one doesn't have to calculate a thing, only to use logic.
Yes, that's one possible interpretation. I have a different one: Valverde is usually good in Spain (and better at his 2nd GT than the first one), where competition often has a lower level than at the previous 2 GTs. Plus, both Contador and Froome were coming off of injuries, so they weren't at their best level.
Now, comparing Valverde's performance in 2014 with his performance in 2016 is supposed to obey to any type of logic? Because if yes, then I'm failing at getting the grasp of it.
About your last question, again, I have already answered it. Scroll up, I won't repeat myself.
The most impressive Pinot's display of talent was this year's Giro imo. But then again, will he follow an upward trend? Between 2014 and 2016 he didn't.
Blanco said:
No, but I can see you're good at straw man fallacies.
Claiming the average level of a GT (at least, the competition, since Nibali was so much better than everyone else) where the top-10 was separated by 20 minutes (and the top-3 was separated by 8 minutes) is lower than the one of a GT where the top-10 is separated by 7 minutes is quite different than your interpretation of what I wrote (which made you fall into a fallacy). You know, one doesn't have to calculate a thing, only to use logic.
Blanco said:
Yes, that's one possible interpretation. I have a different one: Valverde is usually good in Spain (and better at his 2nd GT than the first one), where competition often has a lower level than at the previous 2 GTs. Plus, both Contador and Froome were coming off of injuries, so they weren't at their best level.
Now, comparing Valverde's performance in 2014 with his performance in 2016 is supposed to obey to any type of logic? Because if yes, then I'm failing at getting the grasp of it.
About your last question, again, I have already answered it. Scroll up, I won't repeat myself.
The most impressive Pinot's display of talent was this year's Giro imo. But then again, will he follow an upward trend? Between 2014 and 2016 he didn't.
Re: Re:
For one, I can't compare riders in different GTs, with a different course, et caetera. For example of logic, since you mentioned Bardet, how much time would he have lost to Dumoulin in 70 km of ITT at Il Giro? 8-9 minutes? At his final TdF ITT level, over 10 minutes, maybe 15 . He would never have made up 5 minutes and beaten Tibopino. Logic. Except that it didn't happen. We don't know. Just like we don't know what a fresh Pinot would have done in July: I argue that (according to his Giro form) he's every bit as good as the Uran that I saw. therefore he would have podiumed. Logic. Except that it didn't happen. We don't know.
Their GT record is not that much different, not enough to make a solid case for either of them. The bottom line is: RB and TP are close to, but haven't won a GT yet. And even that GT win argument is flawed. Did anybody think that Hesjedal was equal to Quintana even before Nairo's '14 Giro? Logic, no?
Interpretation of facts = opinion. Not logic.
As a result of the above statements, I have my opinion, you have yours, we can agree to disagree.
Logic...huh... :lol:lenric said:
For one, I can't compare riders in different GTs, with a different course, et caetera. For example of logic, since you mentioned Bardet, how much time would he have lost to Dumoulin in 70 km of ITT at Il Giro? 8-9 minutes? At his final TdF ITT level, over 10 minutes, maybe 15
. He would never have made up 5 minutes and beaten Tibopino. Logic. Except that it didn't happen. We don't know. Just like we don't know what a fresh Pinot would have done in July: I argue that (according to his Giro form) he's every bit as good as the Uran that I saw. therefore he would have podiumed. Logic. Except that it didn't happen. We don't know.Their GT record is not that much different, not enough to make a solid case for either of them. The bottom line is: RB and TP are close to, but haven't won a GT yet. And even that GT win argument is flawed. Did anybody think that Hesjedal was equal to Quintana even before Nairo's '14 Giro? Logic, no?
Interpretation of facts = opinion. Not logic.
As a result of the above statements, I have my opinion, you have yours, we can agree to disagree.
I just cannot register on this forum without posting on my favorite rider thread.
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
Re:
Oh no... another diehard fan of pinot. This guy has something else but I can't see what it is...Chrispol said:I just cannot register on this forum without posting on my favorite rider thread.
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
I am not like Tonton, I'd say that I am more realistic.
Everyone has his own preference, for myself I love the way he rides, a attacking rider, I like his way of live, when you read some interview, you heard that he turned down Sky and some Tax Advisors because they wanted him to move to Monaco or Switzerland, he is a very nice and simple guy.
Simple not in a negative way, but because he finds his equilibrium just by leaving with his animals (goats, cats, chickens. Actuallly there was a lama that Vichot bought him when he moved but that's a long story. ) in his little town of Melisey. He needs no more, he does his job because he loves riding bikes, and I think it's a nice way of life for a super rich guy.
He is very friendly with the public too, he stays a long time compared to others riders to sign autographs and that kind of thing. And you can't find anything clinic related to him.
Everyone has his own preference, for myself I love the way he rides, a attacking rider, I like his way of live, when you read some interview, you heard that he turned down Sky and some Tax Advisors because they wanted him to move to Monaco or Switzerland, he is a very nice and simple guy.
Simple not in a negative way, but because he finds his equilibrium just by leaving with his animals (goats, cats, chickens. Actuallly there was a lama that Vichot bought him when he moved but that's a long story.
) in his little town of Melisey. He needs no more, he does his job because he loves riding bikes, and I think it's a nice way of life for a super rich guy.He is very friendly with the public too, he stays a long time compared to others riders to sign autographs and that kind of thing. And you can't find anything clinic related to him.
Re:
His race program:
Tour du Doubs (10/09)
Grand Prix de Wallonie (13/09)
Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli (01/10)
Tre Valli Varesine (03/10)
Milano-Torino (04/10)
Il Lombardia (07/10)
He's officially announcing his presence in Lombardia: https://twitter.com/ThibautPinot/status/903148280036646913Chrispol said:I just cannot register on this forum without posting on my favorite rider thread.
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
His race program:
Tour du Doubs (10/09)
Grand Prix de Wallonie (13/09)
Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli (01/10)
Tre Valli Varesine (03/10)
Milano-Torino (04/10)
Il Lombardia (07/10)
I hope so ! He's got a real chance in any case.
If he makes to the front page of l'équipe, I hope that you'll change your avatar Alex.
If he makes to the front page of l'équipe, I hope that you'll change your avatar Alex.
Re:
Bulgaria - France (2018 World Cup qualifier) will be held the same day, so cycling won't make it to the front page, even if the winner is French.Chrispol said:I hope so ! He's got a real chance in any case.
If he makes to the front page of l'équipe, I hope that you'll change your avatar Alex.
Re: Re:
You forgot Emilia, probably the second best race.
Alexandre B. said:He's officially announcing his presence in Lombardia: https://twitter.com/ThibautPinot/status/903148280036646913Chrispol said:I just cannot register on this forum without posting on my favorite rider thread.
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
His race program:
Tour du Doubs (10/09)
Grand Prix de Wallonie (13/09)
Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli (01/10)
Tre Valli Varesine (03/10)
Milano-Torino (04/10)
Il Lombardia (07/10)
You forgot Emilia, probably the second best race.
Re: Re:
I didn't read that but it's great news, it's a great race.liamito said:Alexandre B. said:He's officially announcing his presence in Lombardia: https://twitter.com/ThibautPinot/status/903148280036646913Chrispol said:I just cannot register on this forum without posting on my favorite rider thread.
And I have genuinely good news here !
After his win on the Tour de l'Ain Thibaut said that he was feeling tired, that it was maybe his last race of the season and that he was going to see after some vacations.
But today and yesterday he rode 2 times 160km and 3000m + : https://www.strava.com/activities/1156387674/segments/28488302488
https://www.strava.com/activities/1157923732/segments/28523972545
And he liked this tweet : https://twitter.com/Il_Lombardia/status/902531745878343680
Sounds good for a guy who wants to stop his saison 2 weeks ago, cannot wait for Lombardia !
His race program:
Tour du Doubs (10/09)
Grand Prix de Wallonie (13/09)
Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli (01/10)
Tre Valli Varesine (03/10)
Milano-Torino (04/10)
Il Lombardia (07/10)
You forgot Emilia, probably the second best race.
Re:
. Even better if portugal11 does the same, or rides for a week in a FDJ kit. I would pay for the picture .
I completely agree with your description: what's not to like about the guy (except that he's a PSG fan...yikes). i also like how he supports the small French races...le Tour du Doubs is in danger, that's nice of him to show up. Good practice too.
Tibopino will be competitive. I'd not be surprised if he wins Milano-Torino or the GDL.
That would be funChrispol said:I hope so ! He's got a real chance in any case.
If he makes to the front page of l'équipe, I hope that you'll change your avatar Alex.
. Even better if portugal11 does the same, or rides for a week in a FDJ kit. I would pay for the picture .I completely agree with your description: what's not to like about the guy (except that he's a PSG fan...yikes). i also like how he supports the small French races...le Tour du Doubs is in danger, that's nice of him to show up. Good practice too.
Tibopino will be competitive. I'd not be surprised if he wins Milano-Torino or the GDL.
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