Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[thehog]

...I see the point, agree to some extend, but the Birdsong thread also mentions that roundabout, and I have to watch tape to see for myself. It looks according to an interview (I believe in l'Equipe) that I read, that Pinot lost like 40-60 spots by taking the left side of the roundabout. And there was a gap. If so, that's not so much bad positioning, you can blame bad recon, team advice not given, or plain bad luck, being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It was the roundabout, bad luck but he should be following IEOS at all costs at that point. Sometimes you have no choice as you follow the wheel in front but they have radios for a reason.

 

[Cookster15]

So now Pinot fans know how it feels to want to see Richie Porte do well. Join the club of disappointment . The mistakes today are club racing type stuff. No excuses and that includes roundabouts which are known by the teams in advance so the teams should position their leaders or at least get to the front of the peloton so there is room for error if a gap should suddenly open. But riding at the back of the bunch there is no room for error.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

at least 30 positions...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6ZKtCdMRpA&feature=youtu.be

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

...I see the point, agree to some extend, but the Birdsong thread also mentions that roundabout, and I have to watch tape to see for myself. It looks according to an interview (I believe in l'Equipe) that I read, that Pinot lost like 40-60 spots by taking the left side of the roundabout. And there was a gap. If so, that's not so much bad positioning, you can blame bad recon, team advice not given, or plain bad luck, being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The roundabout... If he was really at the front of the group that took the wrong side of the roundabout, he should still have ended up in the first half of the peloton. So chances are, not only did he not take the wrong side, but he was not in the front of the peloton before the roundabout either. I'm sure the roundabout didn't help or maybe the problem wouldn't have occured had he taken the other side, but slice it anyway you want it, this is not "bad luck" it's simply carelessness. He should have been in the front, and he should have taken the right side. He likely failed on both accounts, which resulted in what happened. Furthermore, where is his bodyguard for flat stages? Surely, he should have a guy like Küng with him all the time, in case something happens. Someone who can power on for a few km, to close a gap? Who has his "designated driver" for a crosswind stage? Gaudu?

It's got amateurism written all over it imho. It's not "luck" that made sure that all the sprinters (except Groenewegen who had said earlier in the race that he wasn't feeling too well), including the classics guys were all in the first group. Luck (bad or other) had nothing to do with it. Sagan, Matthews, Ewan, Viviani, Van Aert, Colbrelli, Philipsen, Naesen, Van Avermaet, Trentin, Alaphilippe... they were all there. That's not luck.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

...I see the point, agree to some extend, but the Birdsong thread also mentions that roundabout, and I have to watch tape to see for myself. It looks according to an interview (I believe in l'Equipe) that I read, that Pinot lost like 40-60 spots by taking the left side of the roundabout. And there was a gap. If so, that's not so much bad positioning, you can blame bad recon, team advice not given, or plain bad luck, being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The roundabout... If he was really at the front of the group that took the wrong side of the roundabout, he should still have ended up in the first half of the peloton. So chances are, not only did he not take the wrong side, but he was not in the front of the peloton before the roundabout either. I'm sure the roundabout didn't help or maybe the problem wouldn't have occured had he taken the other side, but slice it anyway you want it, this is not "bad luck" it's simply carelessness. He should have been in the front, and he should have taken the right side. He likely failed on both accounts, which resulted in what happened. Furthermore, where is his bodyguard for flat stages? Surely, he should have a guy like Küng with him all the time, in case something happens. Someone who can power on for a few km, to close a gap? Who has his "designated driver" for a crosswind stage? Gaudu?

It's got amateurism written all over it imho.

as the youtube video shows he was at the front but in a way more slow side of the roundabout when the peloton was really pushing already..
to me looks like a DS car error since they are/should be anticipating the map in the car..

 

[thehog]

...I see the point, agree to some extend, but the Birdsong thread also mentions that roundabout, and I have to watch tape to see for myself. It looks according to an interview (I believe in l'Equipe) that I read, that Pinot lost like 40-60 spots by taking the left side of the roundabout. And there was a gap. If so, that's not so much bad positioning, you can blame bad recon, team advice not given, or plain bad luck, being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The roundabout... If he was really at the front of the group that took the wrong side of the roundabout, he should still have ended up in the first half of the peloton. So chances are, not only did he not take the wrong side, but he was not in the front of the peloton before the roundabout either. I'm sure the roundabout didn't help or maybe the problem wouldn't have occured had he taken the other side, but slice it anyway you want it, this is not "bad luck" it's simply carelessness. He should have been in the front, and he should have taken the right side. He likely failed on both accounts, which resulted in what happened. Furthermore, where is his bodyguard for flat stages? Surely, he should have a guy like Küng with him all the time, in case something happens. Someone who can power on for a few km, to close a gap? Who has his "designated driver" for a crosswind stage? Gaudu?

It's got amateurism written all over it imho.

Movistar dropping off the second group for Landa didn’t help the chase but it all went wrong due due to poor tactics like you say.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

as the youtube video shows he was at the front but in a way more slow side of the roundabout when the peloton was really pushing already..
to me looks like a DS car error since they are/should be anticipating the map in the car..

I editted my previous message.

I count about 30 riders of the "right/right" group that had passed, by the time the "left/wrong" group joins again. If he really was at the front, there shouldn't have been a problem, because the first group was larger than 30 riders.

About 30 made the finish in the first group, but the group was initially larger (a lot of doms from the first group that had worked, let the group go after their job was done).

 

[gmedina]

on top of that also i feel like Astana, EF and FDJ panicked and burned their guys super quickly trying to bridge....they got within 11 secs....they should have just managed the gap and work together...

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

on top of that also i feel like Astana, EF and FDJ panicked and burned their guys super quickly trying to bridge....they got within 11 secs....they should have just managed the gap and work together...

Quicksetep went to the front again to help Ineos and Movistar and that finished off the comeback.

 

[Bolder]

Re:

Pro cycling is what it is, if it was Geraint Thomas or Egan Bernal in that position I'm sure the peloton would've PULLED TWICE AS HARD //stopped//

Fixed that for you.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I think we can all agree Ineos swapped FDJ's road map worh an inverted one and hijacked their radio to give false information from a paid French actor.

On a serious note I hope he can turn it around and keep his head up. It's not over till it is over.

 

[macbindle]

Isnt this just standard Thibault Pinot?

If the French want a Great Tour GC Hope they should look to Alaphilippe and set up a team around him

 

[Blanco]

Re:

Isnt this just standard Thibault Pinot?

If the French want a Great Tour GC Hope they should look to Alaphilippe and set up a team around him

Yeah, great Grand Tour prospect He could finish 7th or 8th sometime..

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

on top of that also i feel like Astana, EF and FDJ panicked and burned their guys super quickly trying to bridge....they got within 11 secs....they should have just managed the gap and work together...

Quicksetep went to the front again to help Ineos and Movistar and that finished off the comeback.

It was Lutsenko who dropped everyone except for the captains, but when he was finished it was still 10-15 seconds. Thats not something you close easily when the other group is going full gas.

I think they messed up there. They might have at least kept it to a minute with Lutsenko not going that hard in that hill to close it by himself. More helpers would have been there for the final 15km or so.

I get it though, desperation kicked in. It would have looked brilliant if they made it back right there. Now they probably lost another 40-50 seconds or so because of that.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Isnt this just standard Thibault Pinot?

If the French want a Great Tour GC Hope they should look to Alaphilippe and set up a team around him

Yeah, great Grand Tour prospect He could finish 7th or 8th sometime..

Who? Alapphilippe? Dont agree. If he turned his attention to the podium and had a strong gc team I think he could do it.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Isnt this just standard Thibault Pinot?

If the French want a Great Tour GC Hope they should look to Alaphilippe and set up a team around him

Yeah, great Grand Tour prospect He could finish 7th or 8th sometime..

Who? Alapphilippe? Dont agree. If he turned his attention to the podium and had a strong gc team I think he could do it.

I don't think so, but we'll see. Stranger things happened...

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Pro cycling is what it is, if it was Geraint Thomas or Egan Bernal in that position I'm sure the peloton would've stopped

What on earth are you talking about...teams/riders don't wait for rival teams/riders when they've just put huge efforts in to drop them in crosswinds

 

[macbindle]

Just watched Pinot's rest day interview and it struck me as a visual representation of why he will never win the Tour. His reasoning was that he had worked hard and "didnt deserve that" and couldn't accept it.

No, Thibaud, you did deserve it, and your lack of acceptance means it wont be the last time.

In contrast whilst Madiot was talking it up, Pinot's face said it all.

 

[TomLPC]

Re:

Just watched Pinot's rest day interview and it struck me as a visual representation of why he will never win the Tour. His reasoning was that he had worked hard and "didnt deserve that" and couldn't accept it.

No, Thibaud, you did deserve it, and your lack of acceptance means it wont be the last time.

In contrast whilst Madiot was talking it up, Pinot's face said it all.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was the perhaps the most vivid representation I've seen of someone's head being gone. He's clearly an emotional lad but from a pro sportsman you usually expect your blow ups to be articulated in the classic Kevin Keegan style as opposed to looking completely defeated.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I like Pinot and am sad for him but am not surprised by what you’re saying about his interview. I can’t remember the situation but a few years ago (in 2015 maybe?) he had a mechanical then didn’t fix it right or something and had another and he just popped. Like you saw him give up in frustration just like that. I think he threw his bike or something. Anyone remember what I’m talking about? If he doesn’t already, he should consider meditation.

 

[macbindle]

Yes, I remember the mechanical incident too.

I'm pretty neutral about Pinot, but I dont think he is a great Tour rider. He hasn't got the requisite mental toughness, and that marks him out as a likely loser. I'm mulling over Tour winners from the past two decades and the only two that came over as even remotely flaky mentally are Wiggins and Evans.

The rest are axe-murderers.

 

[tobydawq]

I like Pinot and am sad for him but am not surprised by what you’re saying about his interview. I can’t remember the situation but a few years ago (in 2015 maybe?) he had a mechanical then didn’t fix it right or something and had another and he just popped. Like you saw him give up in frustration just like that. I think he threw his bike or something. Anyone remember what I’m talking about? If he doesn’t already, he should consider meditation.

That was the cobbled stage in 2015.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Re: Re:

Isnt this just standard Thibault Pinot?

If the French want a Great Tour GC Hope they should look to Alaphilippe and set up a team around him

Yeah, great Grand Tour prospect He could finish 7th or 8th sometime..

Who? Alapphilippe? Dont agree. If he turned his attention to the podium and had a strong gc team I think he could do it.

Let's hope he doesn't try to become a boring GC guy. Much more entertaining as he is now if you ask me.

 

[Tonton]

I like Pinot and am sad for him but am not surprised by what you’re saying about his interview. I can’t remember the situation but a few years ago (in 2015 maybe?) he had a mechanical then didn’t fix it right or something and had another and he just popped. Like you saw him give up in frustration just like that. I think he threw his bike or something. Anyone remember what I’m talking about? If he doesn’t already, he should consider meditation.

That was the cobbled stage in 2015.

Stage 3 Bonnet crashes and almost dies in front of him, Thibaut froze for the rest of the stage, lost time. Stage 4, flat on the cobbles followed by the battery dying on him, couldn't shift gears. Stage 5, caught in a crash.

Quintana: "it's my best start of a Tour ever". Pinot is mere seconds behind him, so let's keep this in prospective. It's not like at Il Giro, as Pinot said in his interview, also adding that he's dealt with adversity and always bounced back. That's what he said. How come no one mentions it? Or how hr will remember that stage and go for blood this coming week-end? No, better regurgitate the same platitudes, year old cliches. Guys you forgot one: he can't descend. Come on, stop the bull. He got caught in crosswinds, not the first, won't be the last. It happened to Valverde at Le Tour, it happened to Contador at Le Tour...do you think they were smiling after that? Nope: they were pissed. So is Thibaut Pinot.

 

[tobydawq]

I like Pinot and am sad for him but am not surprised by what you’re saying about his interview. I can’t remember the situation but a few years ago (in 2015 maybe?) he had a mechanical then didn’t fix it right or something and had another and he just popped. Like you saw him give up in frustration just like that. I think he threw his bike or something. Anyone remember what I’m talking about? If he doesn’t already, he should consider meditation.

That was the cobbled stage in 2015.

Stage 3 Bonnet crashes and almost dies in front of him, Thibaut froze for the rest of the stage, lost time. Stage 4, flat on the cobbles followed by the battery dying on him, couldn't shift gears. Stage 5, caught in a crash.

Quintana: "it's my best start of a Tour ever". Pinot is mere seconds behind him, so let's keep this in prospective. It's not like at Il Giro, as Pinot said in his interview, also adding that he's dealt with adversity and always bounced back. That's what he said. How come no one mentions it? Or how hr will remember that stage and go for blood this coming week-end? No, better regurgitate the same platitudes, year old cliches. Guys you forgot one: he can't descend. Come on, stop the bull. He got caught in crosswinds, not the first, won't be the last. It happened to Valverde at Le Tour, it happened to Contador at Le Tour...do you think they were smiling after that? Nope: they were pissed. So is Thibaut Pinot.

That was because of a puncture, but otherwise, I agree.

I don't doubt that Pinot can bounce back but I was feeling that he had a genuine shot of winning the Tour. That seems much more unlikely after his time loss but of course his form has not disappeared.

And I haven't seen the interview today so I can't assess how defeated he appeared.