Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Krokro]

Tonton, I just wanted to say thank you for this : "Thinard Pinault"

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Re:

Tonton, I just wanted to say thank you for this : "Thinard Pinault"

Thibot Pinauld

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

Re: Re:

I hope Pinot has learned to manage his composure. I still remember stage 4 of TDF2015.

We may look back at the '15 TdF as the turning point in his career. The pressure was HUGE. The French media did what it had done before the '13 Tour (and we know what happened): talk about Pinot winning the whole thing. The circus with Holz as Bozo and Jaja The Clown...

Last year, Thibaut did a great opening ITT, then the nightmare began. Bonnet's crash in front of him, the battery of his electronic shifting dying and the meltdown: he lost the hope of a podium finish before the mountains even began. Posters here and on many other forums wanted him to take the easy way out and do like in '13: DNF and race the Vuelta. Doing so would have meant that Pinot had in many ways wasted two years: "back to square one".

Tibopino decided to toughen up and keep going. He took more punches, had more heartbreaks: Mende, the fall down the Col d'Allos: he would have won that day. Social media was merciless. Many French, so-called fans buried him. When all hope was pretty much lost, he took off in the descent of the Croix-de-Fer, and triumphed atop l'AdH. Hats off...Thibaut Pinot grew a lot in July '15. He got a lot tougher...

Next was a big win in a small race, the TdG, and a great fall campaign in Italy. Now, his best start of a season ever. Solid at VaA, ahead of Nibbles at TA, his best VaPV ever, 2nd in Romandie. Still a little below what is now the Big-3. I believe in him for a top-5 at the Tour. Possibly better (podium?) if he takes risks. Are the favorites going to watch each other? What team will do the work if Thinard Pinault places an attack? Then he has to make moves early before teams/riders collude to defend their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, or 6th place as it unfortunately happens every year.

That seems like a smart assessment. Whether or not he ends up winning the Tour some day, TP is writing an admirable shaggy-dog story for himself. When we first met him he was an attacker-climber who couldn't TT and couldn't descend. Since then he's improved both his time-trialing and his descending (with bumps along the way in both cases, naturally). And he also seems to be maturing mentally. At the 2013 TDF his mentality never recovered from the initial blows to his GC chances; in 2015, by contrast, he kept soldiering on and eventually grabbed a plum stage win. His arsenal still lacks a killer "finishing move," but he's slowly turning himself into a Cadel Evans type: someone who's got a better overall skillset than anyone around him.

Also, some credit should be given to Marc Madiot for realizing that FDJ had to leave behind the mentality of the Armstrong era (focusing on stage wins as the only realistic goal) and retool itself around a GC campaign. Hence the team-wide improvement in the time trial, but also the growing strength of the climbing domestiques. This year, whenever TP reaches the foot of a major climb, he's almost always got Reichenbach or Geniez and some other guys guarding his flanks. Not only has Pinot become a legitimate stage-race contender, but FDJ have finally become a normally functioning cycling team.

 

[Tonton]

For your enjoyment...

PS: I tried to get sync between music and video. New at this, but learning .

https://youtu.be/GoGGZk2y3Eg

 

[fantomas]

For your enjoyment...

PS: I tried to get sync between music and video. New at this, but learning .

https://youtu.be/GoGGZk2y3Eg

Thanks! I really like Pinot, and though I'm no fan of Hallyday, "Allumer le feu" is a fitting choice for the first part of this video nevertheless.

 

[Tonton]

For your enjoyment...

PS: I tried to get sync between music and video. New at this, but learning .

https://youtu.be/GoGGZk2y3Eg

Thanks! I really like Pinot, and though I'm no fan of Hallyday, "Allumer le feu" is a fitting choice for the first part of this video nevertheless.

Maybe you were born on"que je t'aime" Fantomas .

 

[fantomas]

For your enjoyment...

PS: I tried to get sync between music and video. New at this, but learning .

https://youtu.be/GoGGZk2y3Eg

Thanks! I really like Pinot, and though I'm no fan of Hallyday, "Allumer le feu" is a fitting choice for the first part of this video nevertheless.

Maybe you were born on"que je t'aime" Fantomas .

Actually, I was probably part of the "Foule Sentimentale" the first time I lived in France. Young and, as they say, "La nuit debout".

 

[Tonton]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

 

[Kokoso]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

He doesn't appear to me as much diesel as to you. He may be diesel, but we have seen that he has decent kick, too. Prologue was subpar.

 

[Valv.Piti]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

He doesn't appear to me as much diesel as to you. He may be diesel, but we have seen that he has decent kick, too. Prologue was subpar.

As much of a diesel like Aru. Both results were really not surprising IMO.

 

[Kokoso]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

He doesn't appear to me as much diesel as to you. He may be diesel, but we have seen that he has decent kick, too. Prologue was subpar.

As much of a diesel like Aru. Both results were really not surprising IMO.

Don't know about Aru, but I think we have seen Pinot is one of the fastest when it comes to last metres. Not exactly what one'd call diesel. He seems pretty explosive, for climber of course.

 

[Simurgh]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

He doesn't appear to me as much diesel as to you. He may be diesel, but we have seen that he has decent kick, too. Prologue was subpar.

In last years Tour stage to Mende, Pinot immediately respond to Bardet and the other breakaway companions attacks, but continued in his steady pace until he catched them all at the top. (and we all know the end of the story, that Cummings won the sprint in front of Pinot and Bardet). Pinot has a good sprint for a climber, but his acceleration is poor compared to the likes of Contador and Froome.

 

[Kokoso]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

According this logic he should suck hard in any short ITT. But he is actually decent and even won some.
Everyone lost huge chunks of time on Contador uphill at Pais Vasco, except for Quintana (who is known for his diesel btw., not for his kick). So not telling much about him being pure diesel. Actually he did pretty decent there compared to Dauphine prologue. So no, I don't buy it. It was subpar performance, wishful thinking has nothing to do with that. And he isn't pure diesel, too.

 

[Red Rick]

Quintana's abilities on shorter climbs are totally underrated. He finished with Froome on Mende last year.

 

[Tonton]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

According this logic he should suck hard in any short ITT. But he is actually decent and even won some.
Everyone lost huge chunks of time on Contador uphill at Pais Vasco, except for Quintana (who is known for his diesel btw., not for his kick). So not telling much about him being pure diesel. Actually he did pretty decent there compared to Dauphine prologue. So no, I don't buy it. It was subpar performance, wishful thinking has nothing to do with that. And he isn't pure diesel, too.

He isn't "pure" diesel and shows improvement. We're talking about climbing here, not ITT: the two are completely different.

Examples abound: Mende (not that great of an example), he got dropped by Bardet, came back pacing. Malhao (the best example), midway through the climb he is 27" behind Bertie and 7" behind Aru. On the finish line, he's only 20" behind Contador, same time as Aru (whose side elbow didn't provoke any reaction - Nacer would have faced public outcry). See the link of my video above. Pais Vasco? I would bet that most of the time that he lost on the climb was in the first 2 kilometers.

Other examples of diesel starts include the Solden stage at the '15 TdS, or the Croix de Fer before he won the stage at the '15 TdF. Our Tibopino is no Purito. But give him a long 7-9% climb, he will obliterate the likes of Valverde, go mano a mano (meaning no Sky train) and match the "Big 3".

Sub-par performance? Yes. I can be quoted as ruling him out ftw, that I would be happy with a top-5 and a 20" loss. So I was disappointed. At least he beat Aru .

Different year, different preparation, the CdF is a big deal, actually having lost a little time could help going for a stage win. I will rehash, but I think that he doesn't want the French media to be too crazy (impossible), won't go for the GC at the CdD, but test himself on one or two stages, and stage 6 is great on the paper.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Tonton, I think you'll be depressed if you think Pinot will match Quintana on Ventoux and Emosson pedal stroke for pedal stroke.

He looked bad on the climb yesterday. Saw him at the back a few times - not that it probably matters, but its obvious he is some off right now. Maybe thats the right approach. Hopefully he (or Bardet) will win the NC. I want to see the tricolore in the high mountains, could be a great boost of confidence.

 

[robin440]

Cant wait to see the french national jersey paired with brown shorts

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Cant wait to see the french national jersey paired with brown shorts

Not nice . Doesn't matter: it won't happen .

 

[manolo57]

Re:

Tonton, I think you'll be depressed if you think Pinot will match Quintana on Ventoux and Emosson pedal stroke for pedal stroke.

He looked bad on the climb yesterday. Saw him at the back a few times - not that it probably matters, but its obvious he is some off right now. Maybe thats the right approach. Hopefully he (or Bardet) will win the NC. I want to see the tricolore in the high mountains, could be a great boost of confidence.

Mmh I don't think he was bad, in fact he doesn't seem really concerned by the GC so he doesn't make the effort to be at the front of the bunch. I don't know if you noticed but when there was the attacks of Landa etc he had come back at the front. IMO, if he can do a good GC that will be nice but that's not a real purpose, as it was at the romandie or tirreno.

 

[Kokoso]

CdD opening ITT: same as the one at the VaPV for Thibaut. Diesel is not the best fuel for rockets, obviously . I was expecting better, but wishful thinking put aside, I'm not surprised. The real test is yet to come. Stage 6, in particular, will tell us a lot about is level.

According this logic he should suck hard in any short ITT. But he is actually decent and even won some.
Everyone lost huge chunks of time on Contador uphill at Pais Vasco, except for Quintana (who is known for his diesel btw., not for his kick). So not telling much about him being pure diesel. Actually he did pretty decent there compared to Dauphine prologue. So no, I don't buy it. It was subpar performance, wishful thinking has nothing to do with that. And he isn't pure diesel, too.

He isn't "pure" diesel and shows improvement. We're talking about climbing here, not ITT: the two are completely different.

Examples abound: Mende (not that great of an example), he got dropped by Bardet, came back pacing. Malhao (the best example), midway through the climb he is 27" behind Bertie and 7" behind Aru. On the finish line, he's only 20" behind Contador, same time as Aru (whose side elbow didn't provoke any reaction - Nacer would have faced public outcry). See the link of my video above. Pais Vasco? I would bet that most of the time that he lost on the climb was in the first 2 kilometers.

Other examples of diesel starts include the Solden stage at the '15 TdS, or the Croix de Fer before he won the stage at the '15 TdF. Our Tibopino is no Purito. But give him a long 7-9% climb, he will obliterate the likes of Valverde, go mano a mano (meaning no Sky train) and match the "Big 3".

Sub-par performance? Yes. I can be quoted as ruling him out ftw, that I would be happy with a top-5 and a 20" loss. So I was disappointed. At least he beat Aru .

Different year, different preparation, the CdF is a big deal, actually having lost a little time could help going for a stage win. I will rehash, but I think that he doesn't want the French media to be too crazy (impossible), won't go for the GC at the CdD, but test himself on one or two stages, and stage 6 is great on the paper.

I thought when you have to get over short distance fastest you can whether it's flat or uphill. And I'm still inclined to believe that rather than two totally different things. Only uphill climbers are favoured. Tour de Suisse prologue 2013 - short, uphill and Pinot very decent.
Pinot is no Purito, agreed, but it's been told that he's good on steep inclines, isn't it? It's interesting how Pinot's profile changes. He was good on long climbs AND explosive, good on steep gradients earlier, good in finish (isn't that explosivness too?) These days he's first and foremost diesel. Maybe that came with improved time trialing.
That Pais Vasco loss in first two kilometres - did you measured it?

 

[Tonton]

I beg to differ Kokoso. History backs me up. Unless you're an oddity as a rider, you should know that a flat beginning gets your heart going into a rhythm, whereas a brutal effort from the get-go is altogether different. Explosiveness vs. endurance. Some riders are better at one or the other.

Malhao is the best example. Watch it. Tibopino started slow, build up, was 27" down on Contador, 7" down on Aru and came back. Trust me. When I put my Pinot video together, I watched hours of tape. Unless you get a roller-coaster design together i.e the '15 Giro di Lombardia, Thibaut struggles with putting out a big explosion. Unlike Froome or Contador.

Find a 20km @ 8% climb, he'll kick everybody's (except Quitana's) butt. But the short stuff, cold? Nope.

I think/hope you ride. For me, doing the Peters Mountain climb (4.1k @ 8.36%) twice, I set myself up with 10K of flat before the torture began. Had I started from the bottom, 3-2-1-Go, I would have blown up.

What I like about Thibaut. He doesn't come out of nowhere, resurrect from the dead, Vino-style. The Vuelta last year or the Giro this year? He would have podiumed or maybe more.

On an even playing field, Thibaut Pinot is just as good as anyone.

 

[Sciocco]

The Vuelta last year or the Giro this year? He would have podiumed or maybe more.

Tonton, do you think he is going to stick with French teams? It seems like he could have a lot of success going to a non-French team who might allow him to target the Giro or Vuelta instead.

 

[Tonton]

It's not official, I think, but l' Equipe said that Thibaut is going to extend with FDJ for 2 years. He'll still be in his prime when it's over. Thibaut has made it clear that he wants to race the Giro. Next year's Giro may be stacked though. The 100th. And for crying out loud, I hope that stage 17 is the same as the Coppi-Bartali stage. To the organizers: give Libertine Seguros a nice fee and we get ourselves a great Giro. Please!

Thibaut knows that the next 4-5 years are the prime. Maybe Giro '17 is not the deal, But Giro/Vuelta has to happen. Soon. So he can come back to the Tour, having been there, stronger.

 

[Kokoso]

I beg to differ Kokoso. History backs me up. Unless you're an oddity as a rider, you should know that a flat beginning gets your heart going into a rhythm, whereas a brutal effort from the get-go is altogether different. Explosiveness vs. endurance. Some riders are better at one or the other.

Malhao is the best example. Watch it. Tibopino started slow, build up, was 27" down on Contador, 7" down on Aru and came back. Trust me. When I put my Pinot video together, I watched hours of tape. Unless you get a roller-coaster design together i.e the '15 Giro di Lombardia, Thibaut struggles with putting out a big explosion. Unlike Froome or Contador.

Find a 20km @ 8% climb, he'll kick everybody's (except Quitana's) butt. But the short stuff, cold? Nope.

I think/hope you ride. For me, doing the Peters Mountain climb (4.1k @ 8.36%) twice, I set myself up with 10K of flat before the torture began. Had I started from the bottom, 3-2-1-Go, I would have blown up.

What I like about Thibaut. He doesn't come out of nowhere, resurrect from the dead, Vino-style. The Vuelta last year or the Giro this year? He would have podiumed or maybe more.

On an even playing field, Thibaut Pinot is just as good as anyone.

 

[jens_attacks]

he said in l'equipe today that the hot weather affects him already....again, better check the weather for july. if it will be crazy hot, can't see him in top 5