Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Ramon Koran]

I beg to differ Kokoso. History backs me up. Unless you're an oddity as a rider, you should know that a flat beginning gets your heart going into a rhythm, whereas a brutal effort from the get-go is altogether different. Explosiveness vs. endurance. Some riders are better at one or the other.

Malhao is the best example. Watch it. Tibopino started slow, build up, was 27" down on Contador, 7" down on Aru and came back. Trust me. When I put my Pinot video together, I watched hours of tape. Unless you get a roller-coaster design together i.e the '15 Giro di Lombardia, Thibaut struggles with putting out a big explosion. Unlike Froome or Contador.

Find a 20km @ 8% climb, he'll kick everybody's (except Quitana's) butt. But the short stuff, cold? Nope.

I think/hope you ride. For me, doing the Peters Mountain climb (4.1k @ 8.36%) twice, I set myself up with 10K of flat before the torture began. Had I started from the bottom, 3-2-1-Go, I would have blown up.

What I like about Thibaut. He doesn't come out of nowhere, resurrect from the dead, Vino-style. The Vuelta last year or the Giro this year? He would have podiumed or maybe more.

On an even playing field, Thibaut Pinot is just as good as anyone.

As good as pinot is to suggest he would kick nibali, froome and Alberto butt on a 20km climb at 8% is pushing it, he's still imo a fair way off that level.

 

[Oliwright]

Pinot is going to be exposed over the next few days!
Isn't on the level of Porte, Contador and Froome.

He has never beaten Contador and Froome in June & July.

 

[Kokoso]

Sorry I totally fu*** my previous post

So this is it:

@ Tonton: "I beg to differ Kokoso. Unless you're an oddity as a rider, you should know that a flat beginning gets your heart going into a rhythm, whereas a brutal effort from the get-go is altogether different." It think you are mixing things up, apples and oranges. I agree that explosivness is brutal effort from get to go. But whether it's uphill or flat doesn't matter - it's about how you pace yourself. You can kick both pan flat and uphill or even downhill - doesn't matter. Unless uphill is so steep that just to hold up on the bike requires pace that is very high for one - which certainly isn't Pinot's case, who is very well trained cycling professional.
So if you have prologue like the Romandie one this year, 3.95 kms, it's about explosivness too. That's why sprinters tend to do well in such short ITT's I think. Pinot was decent there, much better than Les Gets. But maybe factor is the he can actually ride TT bike very well compared to others, or has very good TT bike hence is relatively better than uphill on normal bike. Or Pinot actually doesn't like steep gradients. Or both.

"Find a 20km @ 8% climb, he'll kick everybody's (except Quitana's) butt. But the short stuff, cold? Nope." Not much evidence for this statement, at least until this point o Pinot's carreer.
Take Tour de France 2014. Gerardmer - short, steep climb, raining, cold. Pinot beats Valverde. Rather short and steep La Planches de belles filles - Pinot beats Valverde again. Then Chamrousse, long climb, not much steep, should be ideal for Pinot - lost to Valverde. Pla d'Adet - more of long, not much steep climb - loses to Peraud, Mollema, Valverde.

I'd say it's all relative. It depends who you are comparing to. You are comparing him to Contador as example of explosivness - but no way Contador is really explossive. He just was/is overall better hence he beat Pinot everywhere.

To me it looks that Pinot is both pretty explosive at least amongst climbers and can pace himself very well too. Lets see if he can do another step this year. Of those who can win Tour this year I'll cheer for him.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Cant wait to see the french national jersey paired with brown shorts

Not nice . Doesn't matter: it won't happen .

Which one?
Pinot winning the French championships?
Or Pinot going to AG2R?

 

[Kokoso]

Confirmed. Nothing to do with explosivness. He's just bad.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Hmmm...

I hope he'll show some form in the last two stages. NC are two weeks away.

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

Hmmm...

I hope he'll show some form in the last two stages. NC are two weeks away.

He's probably bluffing.

 

[manolo57]

He said in interview he didn't have good legs today so he didn't make the effort until the finish, he will try to win a stage this week end. But he admitted he had some difficulties to be in good shape again after the romandie. You're right with CN in two weeks I hope it's going to be better for him tomorrow.

 

[Tonton]

OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!

As Contador's fan get ready to jump out the window , I'm not ready to push the panic button just yet. My point remains that he doesn't want the circus to get to him, and that stage 6 tomorrow will tell us plenty.

Hot summer? No good.

We'll see.

 

[liamito]

OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!

As Contador's fan get ready to jump out the window , I'm not ready to push the panic button just yet. My point remains that he doesn't want the circus to get to him, and that stage 6 tomorrow will tell us plenty.

Hot summer? No good.

We'll see.

You saw the Madiot interview? Seems like they consider Dauphiné just as a good week of training. So also after tomorrow no panic buttons.

 

[Tonton]

He said in interview he didn't have good legs today so he didn't make the effort until the finish, he will try to win a stage this week end. But he admitted he had some difficulties to be in good shape again after the romandie. You're right with CN in two weeks I hope it's going to be better for him tomorrow.

It was in l'Equipe: he said his legs haven't been responding, said "there's no excuse". And said "I'm not a machine". Fair enough: there's only one Valverde. I wouldn't want Tibopino to be Valverde .

My feeling is that he's not a GC threat anymore, and he'll go for tomorrow's stage. Maybe it was the plan all along.

 

[Valv.Piti]

OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!

As Contador's fan get ready to jump out the window , I'm not ready to push the panic button just yet. My point remains that he doesn't want the circus to get to him, and that stage 6 tomorrow will tell us plenty.

Hot summer? No good.

We'll see.

He looked demoralised when he crossed the finish line, I wonder if something is wrong or its going according to the plan. I believe the answer is somewhere in between

 

[Tonton]

Maybe he contracted the Zika-larzia virus and will come back stronger, win 15 TdF, post a VO2Max in the 120's. .

 

[manolo57]

I'm not sure it was the plan, otherwise he wouldn't have asked his teammates to be at the head of the bunch before the climb

 

[Tonton]

I'm not sure it was the plan, otherwise he wouldn't have asked his teammates to be at the head of the bunch before the climb

Good point. But let's see what tomorrow brings. That's the best profile for Pinot, and when I saw the course, I thought "that's it". I may be wrong. If Thibaut does nothing, then all I got left is to hope that it's all about getting him strong week-3 at the TdF, a very tough week indeed.

 

[Tonton]

And btw, if the build up is the same, then Tibopino is one week ahead of his TdS form, not quite there. And the extra rest will pay off.

Help me!

 

[portugal11]

I think he doesn't want to peak early so his preparation has been slow this month. Last year he almost won tour de suisse and when he came to le tour, he was mentally and physically weak.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

And btw, if the build up is the same, then Tibopino is one week ahead of his TdS form, not quite there. And the extra rest will pay off.

Help me!

Basically the Dauphineé is a win-win situation. If you do well, you head into the TDF full of confidence. If you do poorly, then you can take consolation in the fact that you haven't peaked too soon.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Bakelants beating Pinot in the mountains. Something is really wrong with the preparation. Should have chosen TDS rather than these high profile Dauphine warzones between Froome & Contador where there are only casualties. Anybody who comes in between gets ground to dust with the corresponding loss in confidence and Pinot is person who requires confidence without which he just gives up. This result is all the more problematic with Bardet being still in the top 10

 

[Simurgh]

Well, he didn't look so well at the beginning of the last climb, but he got gradually better. Also some useless attacks from Bardet certainly helped. I'm not worried for the Tour.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Mixed feelings here because I'm more Bardet than Pinot.

But great showing today. True champion.
National Championships will be AWESOME.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So we are all obviously waiting for Tonton. Here is a preview so you know what you can expect:

1. Pinot is a true diesel climber and today was the first time in the real mountains
2. Everything is going according to plan
3. Pinot is much more mature and has learned to cope with the pressure, especially from L'Equpe and the nationalistic and unrealistic French fans
4. He proved once again why he is the 'best of the rest' and has a real opportunity to podium
5. Now he will go on to win the NC's in his backyard
6. At least one level above Bardet as a stage racer

 

[liamito]

“I find it hard to realize what's happening because I only got good feelings at the end. I was struggling all day. Had I been told in the climb to La Madeleine that I was going to win, I wouldn't have believed it. I was feeling average like the previous days so I didn't expect to do well here. I don't know what happened in the finale.

Sounds a bit strange though.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

So we are all obviously waiting for Tonton. Here is a preview so you know what you can expect:

1. Pinot is a true diesel climber and today was the first time in the real mountains
2. Everything is going according to plan
3. Pinot is much more mature and has learned to cope with the pressure, especially from L'Equpe and the nationalistic and unrealistic French fans
4. He proved once again why he is the 'best of the rest' and has a real opportunity to podium
5. Now he will go on to win the NC's in his backyard
6. At least one level above Bardet as a stage racer

6. At least one level above Bardet and Aru as a stage racer.

Back from work where the network blocks videos and forums. All I could do was read the text updates. Now I'm going to watch the highlights, last 15K, or whatever YouTube and Steephill can give me.

What a day, my friends, what a day!!!

 

[Tonton]

Re:

“I find it hard to realize what's happening because I only got good feelings at the end. I was struggling all day. Had I been told in the climb to La Madeleine that I was going to win, I wouldn't have believed it. I was feeling average like the previous days so I didn't expect to do well here. I don't know what happened in the finale.

Sounds a bit strange though.

In the post-race interviews in French (not lost in translation probably), he didn't quite say what you quote and gave a more in-depth analysis. Pinot suggests that he had marked this particular stage, and being further from the top of the GC than expected, he wanted to win from the BOD, which stressed him out in the bus: he was afraid to miss the break. Then, Thibaut describes that the plan was to have a teammate with him, which happened, that he wasn't in a great day, and yes, that he struggled (and the "had I been told..." part is true). Overall, Tibopino was extremely satisfied that it didn't take him being 100% to get a win. When describing the final kilometers, he hints that he wanted to work for Bardet, let Romain get the jersey and get the stage for himself, so when Bardet attacked with 3K to go, he got ticked off.