Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Chrispol]

I was not sure before that race considering his 8th place in Emilia but he seems ready for Lombardia. I thought that he was going to be better and better this week, but follow Nibs today that was unexpected.

In 2015 on the same exact course, he was dropped like a stone by Nibali https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TBi_-xNxcQ&t=8m24s

Now can he win ? He's got a good sprint but he struggles to hit the bull's-eye. 4 victories this season but 8 second place. I fear that he'll miss a big win in his carreer.

And bad news today, Reichenbach fractured his elbow. (Involved in a crach caused by Moscon by the way. )

He'll be alone Saturday, since his crash in Limousin one month ago, Gaudu is struggling on every race (And he's only 20. )

 

[Tonton]

In '15, Thibaut was against two Astana (Nibali and Rosa) who took turns attacking...Nibali's last attack was just too much for Il Grandissimo.

He looks good...Milano-Torino or GDL...Tibopino can end his season with style (fingers crossed).

 

[Tonton]

Too bad...but Thibaut gave it all, took his responsibilities, didn't wait in the wheels. He lacked freshness after all his efforts dropping the rest, and in the end Vincenzo was just the strongest. TP deserved a podium tho'...bummer . He gave it 100%, close but no cigar. Still, bravo Pinot.

 

[Alexandre B.]

He's really enjoyable to watch when he has the form. Brave Thibaut!

Is it time for regrets? I think Nibali would've dropped him on the last climb.

 

[Chrispol]

He wanted the win and only the win. That was brave, but Nibali put him in the red zone in the descent of the Civiglio and he could never recover after that.

Still miss a big win in his career, hope he can find the way.

 

[fauniera]

He raced for the win, Nibali was simply stronger and would have dropped him on San Fermo anyway. No regrets.

Pinot should regret Tre Valli Varesine. He could have won that one if he had done more work with Nibali.

 

[Tonton]

THIBAUT PINOT - 2017 RECAP

Now that '17 is in the books for Thibaut Pinot, let's look back at what I would argue was his best pro season to date.

January 29: GP La Marseillaise. For his first race of the season, Tibopino sets a crazy pace in the hills, dropping the sprinters and helping Arthur Vichot for the win. 9th place.

Days later, at the Volta a Comunitat Valenciana, Pinot is sick, rakes up another top-10 in the TTT (although he is too weak to finish with the rest of the team). He soldiers on and finishes the race in 106th position.

Couch, blankets, and a few hot teas with honey later, on February 15, Thibaut places 7th in the opening stage of La Ruta del Sol. The following day, he scores his first win of the season by dropping Landa and the red-hot Valverde in the final kilometers, catching Alberto Contador with 300 meters to go, and launching a ferocious sprint. To date, his greatest win: against top competition, no one let him go like at Champeix '15.

March 4th, and a first for Tibopino: La Strade Bianche. For the first but not the last time of the year, portugal11's predictions prove to be wrong . TP jumps in the BOD, resists, earning a well-deserved top-10 and much acclaim on this forum (and not just from me ).

Tirreno Adriatico left me with mixed emotions. After a strong opening TTT (3rd), team FDJ got carried away in the queen stage finishing atop Il Terminillo. Reichenbach launched a massive acceleration with 7 km to go that didn't drop anyone, Thibaut went wild for another kilometer, then took a breather and got countered, finishing 9th and losing time on his main rivals. Fortunately, Pinot bounced back the following day, when only Sagan could deny him the murito finish win in Fermo. In the end, Thibaut finished a career best 3rd of a stage race that he could have won.

One month later, it's time for Thibaut's last build-up race before Il Giro. 3,2,5,2,1.

Although he loses the overall to Geraint Toofast by a few seconds, the World takes notice: he's strong, he's mean, and he's ready.

Il Giro: 4th in the Etna stage, 6th at Peschici, and a brilliant 2nd place finish at the Blockhaus. Week 1 over, and Tibopino is Il Grandissimo. lenric' is getting his lawyer busy trying to find a way out (He made me do it, I don't remember, someone hacked my computer ). Then the stage 10 ITT: Pinot gains a little time on Quintana, loses a little to Zakarin, but loses a lot to Nibali and a lot more to Dumourain. After three meh stages, 5th and 3rd in the week-end. After rest day, everybody but Thibaut took a lot of time on a crappy Dumoulin in the Stelvio stage. Bummer. But the rest of week-3 was magic, with Tibopino on the offensive. Attacks and win on stage 20.

Stage 21? Thibaut beat Zakarin . His 4th place at 1'17" is the closest that a Frenchman has been since Jalabert won the Vuelta.

Thibaut was beat up, his French ITT was bad, his TdF was bad: only one top-10. He DNF. FDJ was way too greedy, so was Movistar, you don't set up your guys to fail. Marc Madiot, I love you, but you F'ed-up.

Thibaut rested, came back, good in San Sebastian, before a win that he wanted at the Tour de l'Ain. Where he won his first pro-race. And that gesture to the kid is my best moment of the year. Paving the way. What a class act.

Fall in Italy: nice build-up with no goals, just please the fans, and back to Italy. 8th in Emilia, 2nd at the Tre Valli, 8th in Milano-Torino, and today: going for broke. Fearless. It didn't pay off. Yes, Champions win. And he does. Champions attack too: inflict pain. Il Grandissimo made a lot of guys suffer at the '17 GDL.

Stats:

4 wins
34 top-10th
In 77 race days

Where do we go from now?

L'Equipe21 is broadcasting many races, so the TdF is not the only thing anymore for sponsors. FDJ can get a lot of exposure. It has been written many times before: Giro-Vuelta is the way to go to build him up.

On a technical level, in '17 Thibaut became more explosive at the expense of his ITT skills. Fine tuning is required. Tibopino is reaching his prime. He;s not intimidated anymore. Descending? Correct me if I'm wrong but he kept the gap to the other guys even when Nibali took off. Like in '15 BTW. You can slice it and dice it all you want, but give Tibopino credit: he's one of the best riders in the World. He's mean. He's hungry.

If it's true that good things happen to good people, I'm looking forward to next year's recap.

 

[portugal11]

THIBAUT PINOT - 2017 RECAP

Now that '17 is in the books for Thibaut Pinot, let's look back at what I would argue was his best pro season to date.

January 29: GP La Marseillaise. For his first race of the season, Tibopino sets a crazy pace in the hills, dropping the sprinters and helping Arthur Vichot for the win. 9th place.

Days later, at the Volta a Comunitat Valenciana, Pinot is sick, rakes up another top-10 in the TTT (although he is too weak to finish with the rest of the team). He soldiers on and finishes the race in 106th position.

Couch, blankets, and a few hot teas with honey later, on February 15, Thibaut places 7th in the opening stage of La Ruta del Sol. The following day, he scores his first win of the season by dropping Landa and the red-hot Valverde in the final kilometers, catching Alberto Contador with 300 meters to go, and launching a ferocious sprint. To date, his greatest win: against top competition, no one let him go like at Champeix '15.

March 4th, and a first for Tibopino: La Strade Bianche. For the first but not the last time of the year, portugal11's predictions prove to be wrong . TP jumps in the BOD, resists, earning a well-deserved top-10 and much acclaim on this forum (and not just from me ).

Tirreno Adriatico left me with mixed emotions. After a strong opening TTT (3rd), team FDJ got carried away in the queen stage finishing atop Il Terminillo. Reichenbach launched a massive acceleration with 7 km to go that didn't drop anyone, Thibaut went wild for another kilometer, then took a breather and got countered, finishing 9th and losing time on his main rivals. Fortunately, Pinot bounced back the following day, when only Sagan could deny him the murito finish win in Fermo. In the end, Thibaut finished a career best 3rd of a stage race that he could have won.

One month later, it's time for Thibaut's last build-up race before Il Giro. 3,2,5,2,1.

Although he loses the overall to Geraint Toofast by a few seconds, the World takes notice: he's strong, he's mean, and he's ready.

Il Giro: 4th in the Etna stage, 6th at Peschici, and a brilliant 2nd place finish at the Blockhaus. Week 1 over, and Tibopino is Il Grandissimo. lenric' is getting his lawyer busy trying to find a way out (He made me do it, I don't remember, someone hacked my computer ). Then the stage 10 ITT: Pinot gains a little time on Quintana, loses a little to Zakarin, but loses a lot to Nibali and a lot more to Dumourain. After three meh stages, 5th and 3rd in the week-end. After rest day, everybody but Thibaut took a lot of time on a crappy Dumoulin in the Stelvio stage. Bummer. But the rest of week-3 was magic, with Tibopino on the offensive. Attacks and win on stage 20.

Stage 21? Thibaut beat Zakarin . His 4th place at 1'17" is the closest that a Frenchman has been since Jalabert won the Vuelta.

Thibaut was beat up, his French ITT was bad, his TdF was bad: only one top-10. He DNF. FDJ was way too greedy, so was Movistar, you don't set up your guys to fail. Marc Madiot, I love you, but you F'ed-up.

Thibaut rested, came back, good in San Sebastian, before a win that he wanted at the Tour de l'Ain. Where he won his first pro-race. And that gesture to the kid is my best moment of the year. Paving the way. What a class act.

Fall in Italy: nice build-up with no goals, just please the fans, and back to Italy. 8th in Emilia, 2nd at the Tre Valli, 8th in Milano-Torino, and today: going for broke. Fearless. It didn't pay off. Yes, Champions win. And he does. Champions attack too: inflict pain. Il Grandissimo made a lot of guys suffer at the '17 GDL.

Stats:

4 wins
34 top-10th
In 77 race days

Where do we go from now?

L'Equipe21 is broadcasting many races, so the TdF is not the only thing anymore for sponsors. FDJ can get a lot of exposure. It has been written many times before: Giro-Vuelta is the way to go to build him up.

On a technical level, in '17 Thibaut became more explosive at the expense of his ITT skills. Fine tuning is required. Tibopino is reaching his prime. He;s not intimidated anymore. Descending? Correct me if I'm wrong but he kept the gap to the other guys even when Nibali took off. Like in '15 BTW. You can slice it and dice it all you want, but give Tibopino credit: he's one of the best riders in the World. He's mean. He's hungry.

If it's true that good things happen to good people, I'm looking forward to next year's recap.

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

 

[Chrispol]

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

If he rides the Tour...

Madiot wants him to do it. Pinot prefers to wait for the routes of both the Giro and the Vuelta, and choose carefully after that.

Imo, next year it would be the ideal season to do the Giro-Vuelta program. Innsbruck's mondial is the chance of a lifetime for a lot of riders, including Pinot. Doing the Vuelta gives you a advantage over the other riders. Looks at Alaphilippe and Moscon flying in the world.

He said to that he'll return to Lombardy next year with a better program. Just saying, but since 2003, all of Lombardia's winners rode in the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

If he rides the Tour...

Madiot wants him to do it. Pinot prefers to wait for the routes of both the Giro and the Vuelta, and choose carefully after that.

Imo, next year it would be the ideal season to do the Giro-Vuelta program. Innsbruck's mondial is the chance of a lifetime for a lot of riders, including Pinot. Doing the Vuelta gives you a advantage over the other riders. Looks at Alaphilippe and Moscon flying in the world.

He said to that he'll return to Lombardy next year with a better program. Just saying, but since 2003, all of Lombardia's winners rode in the Vuelta.

I suspected that Vuelta Lombardia trend but I didn't know it dated back that far.

Nibali in 201t tho

 

[Chrispol]

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

If he rides the Tour...

Madiot wants him to do it. Pinot prefers to wait for the routes of both the Giro and the Vuelta, and choose carefully after that.

Imo, next year it would be the ideal season to do the Giro-Vuelta program. Innsbruck's mondial is the chance of a lifetime for a lot of riders, including Pinot. Doing the Vuelta gives you a advantage over the other riders. Looks at Alaphilippe and Moscon flying in the world.

He said to that he'll return to Lombardy next year with a better program. Just saying, but since 2003, all of Lombardia's winners rode in the Vuelta.

I suspected that Vuelta Lombardia trend but I didn't know it dated back that far.

Nibali in 201t tho

Technically speaking, he rode the Vuelta in 2015.

 

[Tonton]

Tibopino extended his contract with FDJ for two years last year...so 2018 is his last year. If you want to keep him, you have to oblige.

portugal11, if Bardet podiumed this year, Thibaut can do it. He lost less on 30km ITT to Dumoulin than Romain in 13km vs. Dawg. On what we all say is a bad ITT year for him. Let's see what his program will be, if it's TdF (and I hope it's not), I'll bet with you. I'll do a Laflo with the signature "Tibopino we love you" thing .

Giro-Vuelta-WRRC and hopefully revenge in Lombardia makes all the sense in the World.

 

[Tonton]

Contract. Gaudu is not ready, won't be ready for another two years. Take that from Cyrille Guimard, who didn't throw Hinault in the '77 TdF, even after his heroic Dauphine. Guimard criticized getting Thibaut to the '12 TdF. When the mental part makes the difference between good and great, protecting young riders is a science. Build up. Due to an injury, Pinot was lined-up in '12. With limited means, Marc Madiot had no choice. '12 was great, but led to a lackluster '13 (the 7th plave at the Vuelta hides an ocean of no wins), until '14 and the circus since.

I think that '17 is when Tibopino made that transition. Attacking, going for broke, belonging. The transition that some great and super-hyped riders like Fons De Wolf (check him out) couldn't achieve. Pressure. The new Merckx, the new Hinault. For a 20-22 year-old kid, that's a lot. The best thing that could happen to Sagan was not to win much early on (remember the jokes?). In a GT environment, youngest to win a stage and top-10 in the TdF, in modern cycling, that's what Thibaut had to face.

2018 will be a HUGE year.

 

[greenedge]

Sagan's only 4 months older than Pinot and won 3 TDF stages that year too. I know there wouldn't have been as much home pressure on him as Pinot (due to the TDF being French and the GT potential) but there still would have been huge amounts of pressure on Sagan. Also I don't agree with the notion of Sagan not winning much, in 2012 he won 16 races, the next year 22. I know he didn't get the monument victory in 2013 at MSR which was quite funny (even though it was nice to see Ciolek win) but coming 2nd to Cancellara in RVV at that age was quite impressive.

Overall I do agree with your reasoning for Pinot's performances after 2012 and hope for Pinot to have a great year!

 

[portugal11]

Tibopino extended his contract with FDJ for two years last year...so 2018 is his last year. If you want to keep him, you have to oblige.

portugal11, if Bardet podiumed this year, Thibaut can do it. He lost less on 30km ITT to Dumoulin than Romain in 13km vs. Dawg. On what we all say is a bad ITT year for him. Let's see what his program will be, if it's TdF (and I hope it's not), I'll bet with you. I'll do a Laflo with the signature "Tibopino we love you" thing .

Giro-Vuelta-WRRC and hopefully revenge in Lombardia makes all the sense in the World.

I just love that you are always saying "if bardet can do it, pinot can do it too" Bardet is (at least) two levels above pinot on consistency in the mountains

 

[portugal11]

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

If he rides the Tour...

Madiot wants him to do it. Pinot prefers to wait for the routes of both the Giro and the Vuelta, and choose carefully after that.

Imo, next year it would be the ideal season to do the Giro-Vuelta program. Innsbruck's mondial is the chance of a lifetime for a lot of riders, including Pinot. Doing the Vuelta gives you a advantage over the other riders. Looks at Alaphilippe and Moscon flying in the world.

He said to that he'll return to Lombardy next year with a better program. Just saying, but since 2003, all of Lombardia's winners rode in the Vuelta.

I don't think pinot should do giro-vuelta next year, he lacks consistency even in his first gt, so I think he will fade badly in his second gt. this year he showed he can't do two gt's in the same season (at least for now maybe he can improve in the future). I think he should do le tour, is his home race mate, he can't ride away from the tour forever, he has to try. he rides in a french tour, he is the main leader of the team so if he wants to be a gt star, he has to handle the pressure from the fans, sponsors,etc. if he rides the tour, he has time to prepare carefully the tour. And from what I have seen from pinot in his career, is that when he prepares carefully a goal for the season (specially a race with cold weather), he can be a very dangerous man. But like I already said, he has to try the tour

 

[Chrispol]

diehard fan spotted
do you want an avatar bet for next year? i bet that he won't do top5 in the tour

If he rides the Tour...

Madiot wants him to do it. Pinot prefers to wait for the routes of both the Giro and the Vuelta, and choose carefully after that.

Imo, next year it would be the ideal season to do the Giro-Vuelta program. Innsbruck's mondial is the chance of a lifetime for a lot of riders, including Pinot. Doing the Vuelta gives you a advantage over the other riders. Looks at Alaphilippe and Moscon flying in the world.

He said to that he'll return to Lombardy next year with a better program. Just saying, but since 2003, all of Lombardia's winners rode in the Vuelta.

I don't think pinot should do giro-vuelta next year, he lacks consistency even in his first gt, so I think he will fade badly in his second gt. this year he showed he can't do two gt's in the same season (at least for now maybe he can improve in the future). I think he should do le tour, is his home race mate, he can't ride away from the tour forever, he has to try. he rides in a french tour, he is the main leader of the team so if he wants to be a gt star, he has to handle the pressure from the fans, sponsors,etc. if he rides the tour, he has time to prepare carefully the tour. And from what I have seen from pinot in his career, is that when he prepares carefully a goal for the season (specially a race with cold weather), he can be a very dangerous man. But like I already said, he has to try the tour

He doesn't need to race for the GC in the Vuelta, but taking the race in a more easygoing approach. Target stages and get back in form for the WC and the Italian classics.

On the other hand, you can't deny the right for Demare to participate at the Tour. He won a stage this year, the race is going to stop at his hometown Beauvais in 2018 and he is not going to catch some bizarre disease and abandon every year.

Considering that there is now only 8 riders per team and a 35km ITT, it would be suicide to go with a mixed team. And it's time for Thibaut to win. Podium at the Tour ? He already have that. Next year, the competition will be less feroce in the Giro, he have a genuinely shot of winning the whole thing (Yes i know, you don't believe it. )

It would be a shame to not capitalize on this year Giro's experience in 2018. And I think for Gaudu maturation, who is set to ride the Vuelta 2018, a captain in the race would be preferable.

But I agree with you, he can't run from the Tour forever. But for me, in 2019, at 29, with more confidence and a better palmares, that's the thing to do.

 

[Tonton]

portugal11 you will never cease to amaze me: Bardet two levels above? You're stirring up the pot. And you just can't let go that Tibopino is much better than you give him credit for.: not to feed the debate, Thibaut didn't lose two minutes in 13 km in an ITT. And I won't shove the Vuelta Bardet ITT down your throat. Come on...

His Giro was really good, Great week-3, you recognized it before you then tried to take it back. On Saturday, Thibaut attacked. and attacked again at the GDL, and afterwards no excuses . He doesn't come up with bogus excuses.

More pain and suffering for you in '18 I'm afraid.

Pinot is a good guy. Fishing, family, simple things. A good guy who let Gaudu win his first. What's not to like? Not something you understand, maybe. The guy you like charged after Landa and cost him a podium.

Yes.

 

[Alpe-Thibaut]

I am a fan of Thibaut,but I am not a FDJ fan at all.I don't know why Nibali always makes better decision.Madiot can push his promising guys into high level.He was a great rider in the past,he is a respectable team manager for now.But he doesn't have the magic to make a good rider into a champion rider.It's time for Thibaut to leave FDJ,like Nibali did in 2012.

 

[veji11]

i have said it quite a few time already, to me Pinot has reached a point where he strongly resembles pre 2009 RWC title Cadel Evans : He is very strong, has gotten very consistent at high level, but still there is that little extra efficiency / self confidence missing to score that big goal and win the big races. For Evans it eventually clicked. For Pinot it may happen, he may in the next few years manage to win a Lombardia, a GT and a couple of WT stage races à la Tirreno or Romandie... Or it may not happen, the youngsters might overtake him and he might be stuck on that "many top 10s and top 5s, a few podiums, but never on the top spot on the podium on important stages" threadmill.

He is on the cusp, will he make it or not, that is the question.

 

[Chrispol]

Re:

i have said it quite a few time already, to me Pinot has reached a point where he strongly resembles pre 2009 RWC title Cadel Evans : He is very strong, has gotten very consistent at high level, but still there is that little extra efficiency / self confidence missing to score that big goal and win the big races. For Evans it eventually clicked. For Pinot it may happen, he may in the next few years manage to win a Lombardia, a GT and a couple of WT stage races à la Tirreno or Romandie... Or it may not happen, the youngsters might overtake him and he might be stuck on that "many top 10s and top 5s, a few podiums, but never on the top spot on the podium on important stages" threadmill.

He is on the cusp, will he make it or not, that is the question.

Yup, I agree with your comparison, and I am afraid that he lacks the little thing for winning big.

But atleast, even if he stays at Evans level pre-2009, he is still a entertaining rider.

 

[lenric]

Re:

i have said it quite a few time already, to me Pinot has reached a point where he strongly resembles pre 2009 RWC title Cadel Evans : He is very strong, has gotten very consistent at high level, but still there is that little extra efficiency / self confidence missing to score that big goal and win the big races. For Evans it eventually clicked. For Pinot it may happen, he may in the next few years manage to win a Lombardia, a GT and a couple of WT stage races à la Tirreno or Romandie... Or it may not happen, the youngsters might overtake him and he might be stuck on that "many top 10s and top 5s, a few podiums, but never on the top spot on the podium on important stages" threadmill.

He is on the cusp, will he make it or not, that is the question.

Evans pre-2009 RWC was considered a TDF GC contender. Pinot, well, lol.
Still far away from it, much like he's below Bardet, as their GT results (and the competition they faced at them) show.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

i have said it quite a few time already, to me Pinot has reached a point where he strongly resembles pre 2009 RWC title Cadel Evans : He is very strong, has gotten very consistent at high level, but still there is that little extra efficiency / self confidence missing to score that big goal and win the big races. For Evans it eventually clicked. For Pinot it may happen, he may in the next few years manage to win a Lombardia, a GT and a couple of WT stage races à la Tirreno or Romandie... Or it may not happen, the youngsters might overtake him and he might be stuck on that "many top 10s and top 5s, a few podiums, but never on the top spot on the podium on important stages" threadmill.

He is on the cusp, will he make it or not, that is the question.

Evans pre-2009 RWC was considered a TDF GC contender. Pinot, well, lol.
Still far away from it, much like he's below Bardet, as their GT results (and the competition they faced at them) show.

i think Evans always had more ability than Pinot. Also more capacity to suffer even though mentally he could be fragile at times. Pinot reminds me more of a Frank Schleck type rider but more consistent than Frank. Always in the mix but not taking the next step. I was surprised by Pinot in the Giro and I think it was his best GT performance. Stage for stage consistency has always been his problem, for Evans that was probably his strength. I also agree with one of the previous posters in that I think Pinot is better suited to one GT per year. Pinot is the sort of rider who would not surprise with a breakthrough win in a big race but without being a great TT rider or great climber he can't afford time losses on one or two stages like he often does. His classics riding has been pretty good as well but sometimes tactically he needs to hold his nerve more, sometimes I think he attacks too early and pays for it later. The sort of rider I would be happy to see have a bit more success.

 

[SafeBet]

Kudos to Pinot for his very consistent season.
He did very well on the descent from Civiglio. He was actually the fastest not named Nibali and Nibali knows every corner of that descent.

 

[Tonton]

Finally! Marc Madiot speaks on the FDJ website, his summary of '17 and plan for '18.

David Gaudu will not ride a GT...unless. It opens the door, Marc knows it, injuries in '12 and Thibaut gets the call. One week races and spring races.

Big news: Tibopino will do Giro-Tour with the extra week in between, not what I like best, but the logic is to focus next on the RRWC.

If FDJ plays the cards well, really go for the Giro, I love Thinaut's chances with the course that we seem to see in the Giro thread. Podium at least. But even if TP is rested, what TdF line up can make a GC bid serious AND give Demare a shot at green?