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Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Re:

Simurgh said:
Would it be too ridiculous to suggest, that he could have been in that select front group at the end, if France rose for him? (And not closing gaps for Bardet/Alaphilippe). Either way, it was a good race and the top 3 definitely deserved their placings, congratulations!
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Maybe. Pinot was really active and given that he blew himself up pacing the peloton in the end and still finished in the 2nd group tells me he was clearly stronger than Alaphilippe.
 
Tonton

Tonton

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...mixed feelings. Thibaut was really strong today. He put team first and his ambitions second. It goes to show that the guys respect Guimard. Unfortunately, Alaf' didn't have a good day. At least, France got that silver medal, so it's not all that bad.
 
lartiste

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Tonton said:
...mixed feelings. Thibaut was really strong today. He put team first and his ambitions second. It goes to show that the guys respect Guimard. Unfortunately, Alaf' didn't have a good day. At least, France got that silver medal, so it's not all that bad.
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In my opinion, the whole thing is problem of Guimard, he would and should know, that this is way too much for @Alafpolak. He would try with Tibopino and Romain... . On the other hand, the last ascent was really, really, really hard and most probably Tibopino would have no chance to win. He rode up his diesel way (was he waiting for @Alafpolak?) and came there in first 10. That is great and the only guy who was really fighting for position from the group was Kreuziger since it is the best Czech result of all the time. I doubt should Tibopino gone with Valverde instead of Bardet, would he keep the pace in the most hard parts of the climb.

For me, team got silver which is success and 3 guys in TOP 10 is even bigger success. Tibopino still young and will have other chance to win, may be 10 more years :) .
 
staubsauger

staubsauger

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Nah. No fault by Guimard IMHO.

Leclercq once phrased it perfectly. The problem with Alafpolak's climbing is that whenever you expect him to perform on a certain level (2018 WCC, 2017 P-N, etc.) he seems to fail while he suddenly climbs surprisingly well (2016 Dauphine, ToC, 2018 TdF) again, out of the blue. Which then again, raises expectations and pressure on him. That's the issue.
 
lartiste

lartiste

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Re:

staubsauger said:
Nah. No fault by Guimard IMHO.

Leclercq once phrased it perfectly. The problem with Alafpolak's climbing is that whenever you expect him to perform on a certain level (2018 WCC, 2017 P-N, etc.) he seems to fail while he suddenly climbs surprisingly well (2016 Dauphine, ToC, 2018 TdF) again, out of the blue. Which then again, raises expectations and pressure on him. That's the issue.
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My feeling was, that today it was very specific race, not for pure climbers, but also not for typical one day racers. Since it was very long and very hard route. Therefore guys with big engine and climbing skills were those to be in front. In my opinion @Alafpolak didn't have problem with climbing, but more with endurance, and what I have seen, he clearly run out of fuel. To the contrary guy with huge engine was able to comeback - I mean Tom Dumoulin.

But still @Alafpolak was only 43s down, it is nothing he did not crack, he was just unable to follow key move. I would not like to be in Guimard shoes .). And agree, that he has to learn how to handle pressure.
 
L

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Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Alexandre B. said:
What saddens me the most is that Alaphilippe will have plenty of opportunities to win the rainbow jersey, while Pinot will not have many chances anymore.
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Alaphilippe won't get that many chances. His niche isn't that big.
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He was 10th last year on a very sprinter-oriented course. He needs a route that is tough enough to drop the Sagans and Kristoffs, and then outsprint the remainder.

lartiste said:
But still @Alafpolak was only 43s down, it is nothing he did not crack, he was just unable to follow key move. I would not like to be in Guimard shoes .). And agree, that he has to learn how to handle pressure.
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Wasn't it that he had cramps? That could have hit at any time, it just happened to be at the crucial moment of the final climb.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

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Re: Re:

Leinster said:
Red Rick said:
Alexandre B. said:
What saddens me the most is that Alaphilippe will have plenty of opportunities to win the rainbow jersey, while Pinot will not have many chances anymore.
Click to expand...
Alaphilippe won't get that many chances. His niche isn't that big.
Click to expand...

He was 10th last year on a very sprinter-oriented course. He needs a route that is tough enough to drop the Sagans and Kristoffs, and then outsprint the remainder.

lartiste said:
But still @Alafpolak was only 43s down, it is nothing he did not crack, he was just unable to follow key move. I would not like to be in Guimard shoes .). And agree, that he has to learn how to handle pressure.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it that he had cramps? That could have hit at any time, it just happened to be at the crucial moment of the final climb.
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Top 10, but more importantly, he was very close to winning after his impressive attack. I don't know what this supposedly little niche is. Good at climbing short hills, extremely punchy, good at handling distances, fast in a sprint. Sounds like an ideal Worlds rider to me.
 
Tonton

Tonton

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Some interesting points...pressure, climbing consistency, so maybe Guimard picked the wrong leader (easy said afterwards - it seemed so obvious), or tactical mistake: destroying the field and your leader. I choose that one. The plan for a French win had to be 1. get Alaphilippe to the final km with the leaders, 2. have another French rider with him to attack and force Valverde to chase and be out-kicked. That rider could have been Thibaut, who when it's all said and done, did all this work for nothing and gets nothing.

That's a bummer, but at least Romain got the silver, and the team showed strength, some dominance, and I don't recall such a display in my long viewing experience. Better than '94, although the end result is 2 vs. 1 and 3. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'm proud of my national team tonight. They made honor to the jersey.
 
L

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Tonton said:
Some interesting points...pressure, climbing consistency, so maybe Guimard picked the wrong leader (easy said afterwards - it seemed so obvious), or tactical mistake: destroying the field and your leader. I choose that one. The plan for a French win had to be 1. get Alaphilippe to the final km with the leaders, 2. have another French rider with him to attack and force Valverde to chase and be out-kicked. That rider could have been Thibaut, who when it's all said and done, did all this work for nothing and gets nothing.

That's a bummer, but at least Romain got the silver, and the team showed strength, some dominance, and I don't recall such a display in my long viewing experience. Better than '94, although the end result is 2 vs. 1 and 3. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'm proud of my national team tonight. They made honor to the jersey.
Click to expand...

When they got to the Holl with 3 French riders and no other multiples, there was no need to push the pace harder than Alaf could follow. At that point, it was up to other teams (ie, Valverde) to get rid of JA. Even if Valverde was still with them down the other side, you have one man to lead out JA, and another to box in Bala.

I'm typing this with about 8 hours' worth of hindsight of course. At the time, it made perfect sense for Bardet to push the pace and destroy the rest of the field, I just didn't expect him to pop Alaphilippe while doing it.
 
Koronin

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Leinster said:
Tonton said:
Some interesting points...pressure, climbing consistency, so maybe Guimard picked the wrong leader (easy said afterwards - it seemed so obvious), or tactical mistake: destroying the field and your leader. I choose that one. The plan for a French win had to be 1. get Alaphilippe to the final km with the leaders, 2. have another French rider with him to attack and force Valverde to chase and be out-kicked. That rider could have been Thibaut, who when it's all said and done, did all this work for nothing and gets nothing.

That's a bummer, but at least Romain got the silver, and the team showed strength, some dominance, and I don't recall such a display in my long viewing experience. Better than '94, although the end result is 2 vs. 1 and 3. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'm proud of my national team tonight. They made honor to the jersey.
Click to expand...

When they got to the Holl with 3 French riders and no other multiples, there was no need to push the pace harder than Alaf could follow. At that point, it was up to other teams (ie, Valverde) to get rid of JA. Even if Valverde was still with them down the other side, you have one man to lead out JA, and another to box in Bala.

I'm typing this with about 8 hours' worth of hindsight of course. At the time, it made perfect sense for Bardet to push the pace and destroy the rest of the field, I just didn't expect him to pop Alaphilippe while doing it.
Click to expand...

I don't think he expected Alaphilippe to pop while doing it either.

Pinot did his job and did it very well. They did get a silver medal and actually showed they could work as a team.
 
A

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The course is too hard for Alaphilippe.Certainly,the French team did a wrong choose,did Guimard believe Bardet can win this race with a solo win?It's obvious that Pinot is a better choice.He can attack,he have a better sprint than Bardet.Riding for Pinot may not mean beat Valverde and win the title,but it was surely a better tactic.

Pinot is 28 years old now.Next year will be 29.Gold years isn't it?But he has no significant titles on his name.He won't be a GT winner considering his bad TT.he should pay more attention to the One-day race,however,he miss the chance again...GDL,Allez Thibaut and....Madiot
 
Tonton

Tonton

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Needless to say, I'm a little disappointed right now: my homie Tibopino was really strong and fell short today. But all is not bad. So far, El Tibo is having his best Italian fall classics season to date.

Emillia-Begheli-Tre Valli-MT- GDL
'18: 5-54-2-?-?
'17: 8-81-2-8-5
'16: couch and blanket :eek:
'15: DNS-DNS-12-4-3
'14: DNS-DNS-DNS-DNS-14
'13: DNS-DNS-DNS-DNS-12
'12: DNS-DNS-DNS-82-DNF
'11: 54-9-3-DNS-47

This Thibaut can score a 1. I remain hopeful.
 
SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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Good win today and I'm torn because I want Kreuziger, Valverde, or Pinot to win Lombardi. Valverde would have to be gone for Pinot to win and if he does I think that will put him Bove Bardet for now.

Speaking of Bardet, is his and Pinot rivalry more civil than Demare and Bouhani?
 
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