Thomas Dekker comeback thread

[maltiv]

Well, I don't really know. If we look at the Ardennes in 2008, he was doped, but how was his competition? i don't know? i know he will have 8% less o2 carrying capacity than in '08, but perhaps his competition will be the same. So, we have to be patient and see. If he can win a race like Tirreno again in 2013 or 2014, I will be very pleased.

I need to make him believe in himself, work hard, and reach as far as he can, but not push the massive pressure down on him that he had before, or else we'll just end up in the same place. its tricky.

JV

Good response, although I'm not sure how wise it is to imply that his competitors were doped in 2008. Let's see the top 10 from F-W:

1 Kim Kirchen (LUX) Team High Road 4h 35' 29"
2 Cadel Evans (AUS) Silence-Lotto + 0' 01"
3 Damiano Cunego (ITA) Lampre + 0' 02"
4 Robert Gesink (NED) Rabobank s.t.
5 Thomas Dekker (NED) Rabobank s.t.
6 Davide Rebellin (ITA) Gerolsteiner s.t.
7 Michael Albasini (CH) Liquigas + 0' 08"
8 Joaquim Rodríguez (ESP) Caisse d'Epargne + 0' 10"
9 Christian Pfannberger (AUT) Barloworld + 0' 15"
10 John Gadret (FRA) Ag2r-La Mondiale + 0' 20"

The bolded ones were quite obviously doped but as for the others on top 10, like Evans, Gesink, Albasini and Gadret...Those guys haven't exactly been heavily implied in anything before. Definitely not the worst top 10 I've seen when it comes to the number of suspicious cyclists.

 

[theyoungest]

he will be a kloden type of rider imo. but hopefully mentally stronger. he shown incredible progress in climbing in 2007 before he got his hip injury

Did you actually read JV's post? "His 2007 Tour climbing is unrealistic, and won't be repeated", it says.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Check the 2008 Amstel Gold Race top 10 and be prepared to get some chills...(in terms of, how clean were his competitors), anyway, that was clinic material

Clean start now

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Did you actually read JV's post? "His 2007 Tour climbing is unrealistic, and won't be repeated", it says.

yeah he may think that but I think otherwise. why wouldn't he be able to be a strong climber? he was 22 back then and should only improve. it may take more than a year or even longer but I see the supertalent that he always was and still is and of course vaughters isn't going to say here he will be climbing as good as in 2007. it would only add suspicion and pressure.

 

[El Pistolero]

There he has a point.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Did you actually read JV's post? "His 2007 Tour climbing is unrealistic, and won't be repeated", it says.

well with the climbing in the cols I was never convinced with dekker, so I don't think it is a stretch to assume he will never reach the top of the game there.

But considering how JV stresses the necessity to not have high expectations it is unsurprising if he underplays his potential a little.

But I'm with arrnout, numbers can only say so much.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

and if his tests are similar to Zabriskie, well even Zabriskie showed he can climb on good days/weeks, didn't he finish 5th in dauphine once?

 

[roundabout]

Current Zabriskie?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No Zabriskie on a good day

 

[roundabout]

2007 doesn't count anymore. Not for Dekker nor for DZ

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Zabriskie was 2nd in the TOC just last year and 3rd in Castilla y Leon in 2009

That's not 2007?

 

[maltiv]

and if his tests are similar to Zabriskie, well even Zabriskie showed he can climb on good days/weeks, didn't he finish 5th in dauphine once?

Tests aren't everything though. According to Brailsford EBH has "by far" the highest test values at Sky, yet it's Froome who's sprinting up them mountains

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I know but Dekker showed climbing talent even before 2007. Despite what JV says.
(and way more than Hagen ever did on real climbs mind you)

 

[greenedge]

Dekker confirms he wants to go to the TDF on Velonation.

 

[Kwibus]

Dekker confirms he wants to go to the TDF on Velonation.

Dekker was on the a populair talkshow last tuesday and he said he wanted to do the TdF. The host asked him if it was realistic and then he said: "It's good to have ambitions right?" .
Ofcourse he wants to ride the TdF, but he doesn't expect or demand it.

 

[Kwibus]

I know but Dekker showed climbing talent even before 2007. Despite what JV says.
(and way more than Hagen ever did on real climbs mind you)

I'm not sure what to think. Dynepo certainly helps TT riders to climb well and vice versa. So for now I expect Dekker to be a good timetrialer that's pretty good on hills.

Anything will more satisfy me

 

[jens_attacks]

french wanccer engoulvent is already full of envy and jealousy.hope thomas will kick your aszes at your home in july,pompous french

 

[Kwibus]

french wanccer engoulvent is already full of envy and jealousy.hope thomas will kick your aszes at your home in july,pompous french

Dutch, english link? :/

 

[jens_attacks]

https://twitter.com/#!/JimmyEngoulvent

 

[theyoungest]

french wanccer engoulvent is already full of envy and jealousy.hope thomas will kick your aszes at your home in july,pompous french

Did Jimmy forget about his ex-teammate Millar?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

https://twitter.com/#!/JimmyEngoulvent

u on twitter!?!?!?!

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Good response, although I'm not sure how wise it is to imply that his competitors were doped in 2008. Let's see the top 10 from F-W:

1 Kim Kirchen (LUX) Team High Road 4h 35' 29"
2 Cadel Evans (AUS) Silence-Lotto + 0' 01"
3 Damiano Cunego (ITA) Lampre + 0' 02"
4 Robert Gesink (NED) Rabobank s.t.
5 Thomas Dekker (NED) Rabobank s.t.
6 Davide Rebellin (ITA) Gerolsteiner s.t.
7 Michael Albasini (CH) Liquigas + 0' 08"
8 Joaquim Rodríguez (ESP) Caisse d'Epargne + 0' 10"
9 Christian Pfannberger (AUT) Barloworld + 0' 15"
10 John Gadret (FRA) Ag2r-La Mondiale + 0' 20"

The bolded ones were quite obviously doped but as for the others on top 10, like Evans, Gesink, Albasini and Gadret...Those guys haven't exactly been heavily implied in anything before. Definitely not the worst top 10 I've seen when it comes to the number of suspicious cyclists.

So what if they haven't been "heavily implied in anything"? That doesn't mean jack ****. 80-100% of that list may have been doping in 2008, who knows?

Why not consider it as a strong possibility? That's all Vaughters did.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Tests aren't everything though. According to Brailsford EBH has "by far" the highest test values at Sky, yet it's Froome who's sprinting up them mountains

where can I find these test reuslts or brailsford claiming that?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

some of thomas' climbing results chronological before he was injured to his hip. and yes he may have been doped but this is not the mid 90s were one could totally abuse stuff and could make hedgehogs fly up the mountains

1 Igor Anton Hernandez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 4.36.56
2 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank
3 Chris Horner (USA) Predictor - Lotto
4 John Gadret (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance 0.02
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 0.16
6 Sylvester Szmyd (Pol) Lampre - Fondital
7 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC
8 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Astana
9 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 0.23
10 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0.16
11 Angel Gomez (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir 0.37
12 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas 0.48
13 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank
14 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2r Prévoyance
15 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team

1 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 2.28.00 (38.514 km/h)
2 Gerrit Glomser (Aut) Team Volksbank 0.08
3 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saunier Duval - Prodir 0.11
4 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne
5 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Fondital
6 José Angel Gomez Marchante (Spa) Saunier Duval - Prodir
7 Vladimir Efimkin (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne
8 Matteo Carrara (Ita) Unibet.com 0.21
9 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0.31
10 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Unibet.com
11 Wim Van Huffel (Bel) Predictor-Lotto
12 Xavier Florencio Cabre (Spa) Bouygues Telecom
13 Joaquin Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
14 Hubert Dupont (Fra) Ag2r Prevoyance 0.41
15 Kim Kirchen (Lux) T-Mobile Team

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 3.54.17 (41,181 km/h)
2 Mauricio Soler (Col) Barloworld 0.11
3 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 0.33
4 Sergio Pardilla Bellon (Spa) Burgos Monumental
5 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank
6 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank 0.43
7 Chris Anker Sørensen (Den) Team CSC 0.49
8 David De La Fuente Rasilla (Spa) Saunier Duval - Scott 0.59
9 Danail Andonov (Bul) Benfica 1.03
10 José Rujano Guillen (Ven) Caisse d'Epargne 1.05
11 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana
12 Julian Sanchez Pimienta (Spa) Contentpolis - Murcia 1.09
13 Alberto Rodriguez Oliver (Spa) Contentpolis - Murcia 1.12
14 Moises Duenas Nevado (Spa) Barloworld
15 Ezequiel Mosquera Miguez (Spa) Karpin Galicia 1.14

the guy is also build very light. I believe in topshape he was 188 and 67 kg, much different from a zabriskie for instance.

 

[theyoungest]

some of thomas' climbing results chronological before he was injured to his hip. and yes he may have been doped but this is not the mid 90s were one could totally abuse stuff and could make hedgehogs fly up the mountains

Surely you notice that these results all came during the period when he reportedly was on the stuff. Nothing he did before that even comes close. You can't just ignore that, especially when it's so obvious.

Tests aren't everything though. According to Brailsford EBH has "by far" the highest test values at Sky, yet it's Froome who's sprinting up them mountains

EBH's recovery doesn't seem to be great. And that's hard to test.

Also, I don't believe he puts out more Watts per kg than a guy like Froome, and that's what's important in "sprinting up them mountains".