Thomas Dekker to cooperate with Anti-Doping Agency

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Dr. Maserati

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hrotha said:
It's disappointing that Dekker was allowed to join Garmin after what was just a low-fat confession, but then, it's pretty clear the ex-Posties had never had to do even that.
But what do you expect?
Seriously, think that through to a logical conclusion.

JV says,'hey, welcome to our team, please contact your ADA and give a full account of all doping including naming everyone - and when you serve your suspension we might hire you".
Or would you just go off and join any other team?
 
Dr. Maserati said:
But what do you expect?
Seriously, think that through to a logical conclusion.

JV says,'hey, welcome to our team, please contact your ADA and give a full account of all doping including naming everyone - and when you serve your suspension we might hire you".
Or would you just go off and join any other team?
That doesn't apply to Dekker though.
 

Dr. Maserati

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hrotha said:
That doesn't apply to Dekker though.
Sure, but you mentioned other USPS riders.

As for Dekker he has served his suspension - if he wanted a reduction then start talking at the beginning, not now.
He could probably get a deal on a lot of teams without having to open his mouth.

I always took that JV asked him to talk with UCI & WADA as an act of faith for JV. People appear to forget that WADA don't prosecute per se, they would refer an athlete to their respective ADA. WADA are more interested in the hows, not who's.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
As for Dekker he has served his suspension - if he wanted a reduction then start talking at the beginning, not now.
He could probably get a deal on a lot of teams without having to open his mouth.
But I thought the point wasn't getting a reduced suspension, but cooperating fully with the antidoping authorities?
I always took that JV asked him to talk with UCI & WADA as an act of faith for JV. People appear to forget that WADA don't prosecute per se, they would refer an athlete to their respective ADA. WADA are more interested in the hows, not who's.
Then Dekker should have talked to ADA then. And JV should have demanded him to do just that.
 

Dr. Maserati

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hrotha said:
But I thought the point wasn't getting a reduced suspension, but cooperating fully with the antidoping authorities?
I am not really sure what you mean here.

But to clarify my point that you quoted - TD didn't take the option of confession to get a reduced sanction. He decided to say nothing, and do his 2 years.
So, why when there is no incentive to do so (quite the opposite) would he be expected to do it just to sign with Garmin?

hrotha said:
Then Dekker should have talked to ADA then. And JV should have demanded him to do just that.
As I said earlier - think that through.

JV (I would assume) would want to be sure that TD will not dope on his team, so he set some things for TD to do.
But asking him to confess everything (names and all) in this sport? Its almost professional suicide.

And again, this goes back to thinking JVs role is to fix cyclings problems - it isn't, that is meant to be for the UCI to do.
Thats actually why this is really pretty big.
 
hrotha said:
It's disappointing that Dekker was allowed to join Garmin after what was just a low-fat confession, but then, it's pretty clear the ex-Posties had never had to do even that.
Well, baby steps. It seems to me to be miles beyond what other top level teams would require. Vaughters has always seemed to forefront the idea of riders competing with Garmin clean over anything else, and if that was happening I'd be happy (if you don't think that's happening, well that's another discussion that I'm not getting into right now).

Forcing the whole truth in the closed world of professional cycling is something that Vaughters has always seemed to be more pragmatic and cautious about, so this makes sense to me. Either way, to me it's more admirable than not even addressing the past, or addressing it but serving up a few sacrificial lambs and then letting Rogers, Yates and Sutton slowly slip out the back door (sorry Sky, I know you're clinic whipping boys, but that was stupid).
 
Dr. Maserati said:
I am not really sure what you mean here.

But to clarify my point that you quoted - TD didn't take the option of confession to get a reduced sanction. He decided to say nothing, and do his 2 years.
So, why when there is no incentive to do so (quite the opposite) would he be expected to do it just to sign with Garmin?
Because it's the right thing to do, and what I assumed the condition to sign for Garmin was. Complete transparency about his past and full cooperation with the antidoping authorities.
JV (I would assume) would want to be sure that TD will not dope on his team, so he set some things for TD to do.
But asking him to confess everything (names and all) in this sport? Its almost professional suicide.
Professional suicide? He'd have a contract with Garmin, one of the sport's top teams. It's not like he'd be left to hang like Jaksche.
Forcing the whole truth in the closed world of professional cycling is something that Vaughters has always seemed to be more pragmatic and cautious about, so this makes sense to me.
Vaughters has always said he was for full cooperation with the proper antidoping authorities rather than for taking it to the media. Dekker went to the proper authorities but withheld information.
 

Dr. Maserati

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hrotha said:
Because it's the right thing to do, and what I assumed the condition to sign for Garmin was. Complete transparency about his past and full cooperation with the antidoping authorities.
The right thing to do is not dope in the first place.
That isn't a smarta$s comment, btw - I am trying to convey the realities here.

He doped, he got caught and did as Pro riders do, deny it or pretend it was a once off, dont implicate anyone, sit out your suspension and return.
No other team would even ask him about his past except to see what products/Doc he recommends.

hrotha said:
Professional suicide? He'd have a contract with Garmin, one of the sport's top teams. It's not like he'd be left to hang like Jaksche.
With Garmin, yes - and Garmin only. No other team would touch him.

The alternative is remain quiet as he was and he could probably get on any other team.

Look at this way - name the last rider to testify without getting a reduction or some other pass? I was actually thinking about Jaksche, but he got a reduction, but even still, he did the right thing and he got screwed.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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hrotha said:
I thought he was required to fully cooperate with WADA before signing for Garmin?
He was, but there were legal limits he had to abide by, as he signed a severance w Rabo. Apart from that the WADA rep was really only interested in current doping events, which Thomas didn't have much, considering he'd just come back from a ban.

So, he fully cooperated. But now he has the opportunity to be more detailed, as the NDA expired end of 2012.

Of course Gerard writes his blogs without knowing any of this.

Anyhow, same old same old... Back to the evil PR cave.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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weeniebeenie said:
A cave? I was hoping for at least a hollowed out volcano on a remote island.
I think many times the clinic posters have a perception that it's a little hole dug out of the side of a mountain. Oh no! This is a fortress! A complex. Multi-tiered. Bedrooms and offices at the top, secret exits on the side and bottom, cut deep to avoid thermal detection. A ventilation system to allow people to breathe and to carry on. The entrance is large enough to drive support cars and even team buses. Even SRM-systems and race radio systems. It's a very sophisticated operation.

This is serious business. And there's not one of those, there are many of those.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Cyivel said:
Will he throw Leinders under the Bus, brother?
I think Leinders is already toast and I also believe that the names TD could drop will be a lot bigger than just Leinders.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
This seemed a little weird...



I would have thought they understood how to use it by now, surely?
What you're missing is that he didn't say "UCI is here to explain ADAMs" ....Nope, its CADF is here... Interesting, if I do say so myself.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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JV1973 said:
What you're missing is that he didn't say "UCI is here to explain ADAMs" ....Nope, its CADF is here... Interesting, if I do say so myself.
I hadn't missed that, no. What I found curious was
1. people who have been using a system for a number of years now need to ask (all the) questions about it
2. the one Garmin rider currently in the headlines re: doping (Dekker) is mentioned as being really, really keen to know all about the whereabouts system.

What did you find interesting about the fact that it was a UCI business rather than the UCI itself that was doing the lesson? Pat's the CADF president, according to their latest report, and Hein Verbruggen was president previously, as listed on the UCI website. Is it really that big of a deal that it was one and not the other?
 
Jul 28, 2009
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Susan Westemeyer said:
..... then he probably doesn't have to worry about perjuring himself.....
I think ElChingon was worried about the purging (ie purgery), not quite sure what that has to do with the topic. Some kind of self inflicted punishment maybe?
 
rata de sentina said:
I think ElChingon was worried about the purging (ie purgery), not quite sure what that has to do with the topic. Some kind of self inflicted punishment maybe?
Doubt there would be Dutch laws on that though, as that is what EC asked about.

Incidentally, in relation to all the talk about Dekker and the Dutch ADA: it was actually the cycling federation in Monaco which banned him.

Susan
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rata de sentina said:
I think ElChingon was worried about the purging (ie purgery), not quite sure what that has to do with the topic. Some kind of self inflicted punishment maybe?
Please don't point out my off-topic comments :D
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Dekker already warned in the documentary a few years ago if he would decide to talk a lot of riders/staff would get in trouble. Nice on him he now has decided to do just that. Guess Boogerd et the rest are sweating their balls of.

What I find worrying is the level of faulty in journalism, the NRC article states Dekker was suspended for blooddope and bouncing blood levels, that is not the case.
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dekker already warned in the documentary a few years ago if he would decide to talk a lot of riders/staff would get in trouble. Nice on him he now has decided to do just that. Guess Boogerd et the rest are sweating their balls of.

What I find worrying is the level of faulty in journalism, the NRC article states Dekker was suspended for blooddope and bouncing blood levels, that is not the case.
Dekker will be ahead of the curve. Many others will be behind.
Armstrong and JB were worthless, but Dekker might get us somewhere pretty fast.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
I hadn't missed that, no. What I found curious was
1. people who have been using a system for a number of years now need to ask (all the) questions about it
2. the one Garmin rider currently in the headlines re: doping (Dekker) is mentioned as being really, really keen to know all about the whereabouts system.

What did you find interesting about the fact that it was a UCI business rather than the UCI itself that was doing the lesson? Pat's the CADF president, according to their latest report, and Hein Verbruggen was president previously, as listed on the UCI website. Is it really that big of a deal that it was one and not the other?
sounds like legitimate questions.

garmin's strategy (regardless of whether they dope or not) seems:
1. fess up all your pre-2009 sins
2. spread the "cycling is so much cleaner after 2008" message
3. continue with UCI (?)

1 & 2 are a very strong combination, PR-wise. Complementary.
Clever, no doubt.

I'm not sure about 3. Two or three months ago we remember Millar had a pretty straightforward opinion about Pat. But he doesn't seem to follow up on those comments. Vaughters was at the CCN meeting, but as president of the AIGCP (I reckon), not as Garmin representative.

All understandable, to be sure.
 

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