Thomas Dekker to cooperate with Anti-Doping Agency

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MarkvW said:
Assume an NDA.
The rider has to worry about endless legal fees battling an entity with much deeper pockets. Therefore, Omerta is the rule. IMHO, this is why we see any controversy happening many years after the fact. Essentially every clawback is expired.

Per JV's comment, let's say there is no NDA, there's still a contract to get into a legal battle over if The Team is displeased with breaking Omerta. Cheaper still, Hein and Pat label the rider a rat and he/she never rides for an elite team again and returns to continental racing for barista wages. They seem to have that power.

MarkvW said:
WADA is then going to approach the UCI and ask it: "Does that team REALLY have a contract that bars riders from talking about rule violating doping? Such a provision would be a rather obvious violation of the WADA code."
UCI tells WADA to pound sand. Then the UCI goes to the team and yells at them to get their matters sorted so that there is no doping controversy.

In a sports federation where you have some confidence that everyone was serious about anti-doping and was protecting the sense there is a real game being played, I think what you posted would be true.

It took the management committee to wake from a decades-long slumber to shut down the Kimmage lawsuit. This is Hein's UCI and almost(!) anything goes.
 
Jan 29, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
There's a lot of sidetalk about an NDA, that no longer exists and could not be broken by WADA who even if no NDA existed do not themselves prosecute athlete.

Some appear to miss that what Dekker is doing has not been done since Floyd - ie a full frank admission where they name others.
We'll see what that means if and when he does it, and the details are released.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
There's a lot of sidetalk about an NDA, that no longer exists and could not be broken by WADA who even if no NDA existed do not themselves prosecute athlete.

Some appear to miss that what Dekker is doing has not been done since Floyd - ie a full frank admission where they name others.
This pretty much. Why would any rider confess when he sees the clinic reactions?

**** happened in the past and I am sure **** is still happening now, but everyone that only criticizes every rider that does want to come clean for not doing it earlier frankly doesn't understand anything about cycling and doping and clinic matters.

No, Dekker is no saint and he probably should've done it earlier, but I am happy that he made the step now. My only worry is that I have the feeling that the head of the Dutch doping authority will not do anything with his story.
 
Well, I'm sorry, but we're only asking the obvious question. Of course full cooperation is good, no one's denying that, but I don't see why we should accept the narrative uncritically when there's such an obvious question to have cleared.

The criticism an unsatisfactory answer will produce is not directed at Dekker but rather at JV, I'd say.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Arnout said:
This pretty much. Why would any rider confess when he sees the clinic reactions?

**** happened in the past and I am sure **** is still happening now, but everyone that only criticizes every rider that does want to come clean for not doing it earlier frankly doesn't understand anything about cycling and doping and clinic matters.

No, Dekker is no saint and he probably should've done it earlier, but I am happy that he made the step now. My only worry is that I have the feeling that the head of the Dutch doping authority will not do anything with his story.
I find the NDA discussion odd - anti-doping would be so much easier if whenever an NDA lapsed people starting talking.
As for the Dutch - to be fair to them they have started this process of T&R, this is a bottom up approach that could prove fruitful.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
The rider has to worry about endless legal fees battling an entity with much deeper pockets. Therefore, Omerta is the rule. IMHO, this is why we see any controversy happening many years after the fact. Essentially every clawback is expired.

Per JV's comment, let's say there is no NDA, there's still a contract to get into a legal battle over if The Team is displeased with breaking Omerta. Cheaper still, Hein and Pat label the rider a rat and he/she never rides for an elite team again and returns to continental racing for barista wages. They seem to have that power.



UCI tells WADA to pound sand. Then the UCI goes to the team and yells at them to get their matters sorted so that there is no doping controversy.

In a sports federation where you have some confidence that everyone was serious about anti-doping and was protecting the sense there is a real game being played, I think what you posted would be true.

It took the management committee to wake from a decades-long slumber to shut down the Kimmage lawsuit. This is Hein's UCI and almost(!) anything goes.
Hein and Pat were playing with the UCI's money. That accounts for their frivolous waste of money.

Where is this idea of an omerta lawsuit coming from? Why would anybody waste good money on a bad lawsuit that would bring bad publicity?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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JV1973 said:
No NDAs, except technology based for those working in this area. We're actually very guarded re our work with aerodynamics and data analysis.
+1, good sign.

Dr. Maserati said:
There's a lot of sidetalk about an NDA, that no longer exists and could not be broken by WADA who even if no NDA existed do not themselves prosecute athlete.

Some appear to miss that what Dekker is doing has not been done since Floyd - ie a full frank admission where they name others.
i agree he deserves some credit, but you're giving him a lot of it.
whom could he implicate that hasn't been implicated yet by others?
at this point in time, it seems it's going to be a relatively low-risk admission, especially compared to Landis'.
 

Dr. Maserati

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sniper said:
+1, good sign.



i agree he deserves some credit, but you're giving him a lot of it.
whom could he implicate that hasn't been implicated yet by others?
at this point in time, it seems it's going to be a relatively low-risk admission, especially compared to Landis'.
Firstly, he deserves credit on his honesty (if & when) regardless of who he implicates as long as he names all.

But- to answer your question, TD could establish the Cecchini Fuentes connection as well as offer more details on Humanplasma.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Firstly, he deserves credit on his honesty (if & when) regardless of who he implicates as long as he names all.

But- to answer your question, TD could establish the Cecchini Fuentes connection as well as offer more details on Humanplasma.
jaksche already did that long time ago. cecchini had nothing to do with doping in the past 10 years, but he did send those who specifically wanted to dope, to fuentes
 
Mar 10, 2009
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JV1973 said:
No NDAs, except technology based for those working in this area. We're actually very guarded re our work with aerodynamics and data analysis.
So a hidden motor would have to be kept under wraps. We get it :D
 

Dr. Maserati

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Ryo Hazuki said:
jaksche already did that long time ago. cecchini had nothing to do with doping in the past 10 years, but he did send those who specifically wanted to dope, to fuentes
Agree, I don't think Cecchini himself is doping, thats Fuentes role.
But it (could) establish the connections, who else went, who were the middle men. Even Hamilton was vague in exactly how the deals were done.
 
theyoungest said:
Dekker was a Fuentes customer, according to NRC. He was 'Classicomano Luigi', various sources tell them.
Interesting. The cyclingnews article about Tyler Hamilton says that Rock Racing made fun of classicomano luigi when he raced in the US in 2008 after classicomano luigi had said that Fuentes' clients shouldnt be involved in the race. Not sure that Dekker raced in the US in 2008 although i havent found his complete program?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exclusive-interview-tyler-hamilton


The same year Hamilton and his Rock Racing teammates were criticised by a prominent rider at another US race. ‘These guys shouldn’t be at the event’ the athlete told the press, pointing out that Hamilton’s and several of his teammates had been involved in Operacion Puerto. Hamilton was at the race but wasn’t racing.

During the next stage several of the Rock riders circled behind the offending rider. ‘Hey Luigi’ they heckled. ‘Luigi, **** you.’

Luigi was of course the rider’s Puerto code name. Only Luigi had never been caught and never been sanctioned.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Frosty said:
Interesting. The cyclingnews article about Tyler Hamilton says that Rock Racing made fun of classicomano luigi when he raced in the US in 2008 after classicomano luigi had said that Fuentes' clients shouldnt be involved in the race. Not sure that Dekker raced in the US in 2008 although i havent found his complete program?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exclusive-interview-tyler-hamilton


The same year Hamilton and his Rock Racing teammates were criticised by a prominent rider at another US race. ‘These guys shouldn’t be at the event’ the athlete told the press, pointing out that Hamilton’s and several of his teammates had been involved in Operacion Puerto. Hamilton was at the race but wasn’t racing.

During the next stage several of the Rock riders circled behind the offending rider. ‘Hey Luigi’ they heckled. ‘Luigi, **** you.’

Luigi was of course the rider’s Puerto code name. Only Luigi had never been caught and never been sanctioned.
well spotted.
I'll be damned.
Cancellara raced the ToC that year.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Frosty said:
Interesting. The cyclingnews article about Tyler Hamilton says that Rock Racing made fun of classicomano luigi when he raced in the US in 2008 after classicomano luigi had said that Fuentes' clients shouldnt be involved in the race. Not sure that Dekker raced in the US in 2008 although i havent found his complete program?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/exclusive-interview-tyler-hamilton


The same year Hamilton and his Rock Racing teammates were criticised by a prominent rider at another US race. ‘These guys shouldn’t be at the event’ the athlete told the press, pointing out that Hamilton’s and several of his teammates had been involved in Operacion Puerto. Hamilton was at the race but wasn’t racing.

During the next stage several of the Rock riders circled behind the offending rider. ‘Hey Luigi’ they heckled. ‘Luigi, **** you.’

Luigi was of course the rider’s Puerto code name. Only Luigi had never been caught and never been sanctioned.
It doesn't say Classicomano Luigi, just Luigi. Maybe that's another client of both Cecchini and Fuentes, I don't know.

I don't think Thomas Dekker has ever raced in the US. 2008 was the year Rabo sacked him, maybe he rode some crits after that in the US but I'd be surprised. And I think him and Tyler Hamilton were friends, Dekker mentioned something in a recent interview about going out together the night before a race.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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theyoungest said:
It doesn't say Classicomano Luigi, just Luigi. Maybe that's another client of both Cecchini and Fuentes, I don't know.

I don't think Thomas Dekker has ever raced in the US. 2008 was the year Rabo sacked him, maybe he rode some crits after that in the US but I'd be surprised. And I think him and Tyler Hamilton were friends, Dekker mentioned something in a recent interview about going out together the night before a race.
clasicomano luigi = luigi = clasicomano.
little doubt there.

it's been rumored that clasicomano luigi was cancellara.
it fits neatly with hamilton's insinuation.

dekker. the truth and nothing but the truth?
 
Aug 20, 2010
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Dekker wasn't at the ToC in 2008.

However, there were two Classicomanos in the Puerto documents: Classicomano and Classicomano Luigi. It could be that Dekker is the plain Classicomano.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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sniper said:
clasicomano luigi = luigi = clasicomano.
little doubt there.
Of course there's room for doubt. Classicomano Luigi means classics guy from Luigi, maybe there's also someone else nicknamed Luigi.

it's been rumored that clasicomano luigi was cancellara.
it fits neatly with hamilton's insinuation.

dekker. the truth and nothing but the truth?
Lol, you're truly born for insinuations. Dekker didn't say anything about Fuentes, it's a journalist who uncovered it (I don't know what his evidence was).
 
Jan 11, 2010
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the asian said:
It should be obvious. Dekker was not a classics specialist.

Cancellara is too much of a big fish to fry.
Of course Dekker was a classics specialist. An Ardennes guy.
 
theyoungest said:
Of course Dekker was a classics specialist. An Ardennes guy.
More of a stage racer who would also be good in the ardennes.

Classicomano usually means a guy who is good on the cobbled classics/MSR etc.

The Piippo/Ballan/Canc type.

Also if the articles on Luigi racing in the US correct, it can't have been dekker.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Balabar said:
Dekker wasn't at the ToC in 2008.

However, there were two Classicomanos in the Puerto documents: Classicomano and Classicomano Luigi. It could be that Dekker is the plain Classicomano.
doesn't seem very useful for Fuentes to come up with two nearly identical nicknames for two different riders.
are you sure?
you have a link?
 
Jan 18, 2010
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sniper said:
doesn't seem very useful for Fuentes to come up with two nearly identical nicknames for two different riders.
are you sure?
you have a link?
Based on some of testimony about blood storage practices, it doesn't sound like Fuentes is a very careful guy.
Seems like just the type mistake that may have got Hamilton busted in the first place. Mixed up blood bags due to nicknames that are too similar.
 

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