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Thoughts on Astana so far?

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Jun 16, 2009
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Publicus said:
I think they've done better than expected so far. As for today's stage at Paris-Nice, I think Astana brought too many engines for the last two days of climbing. Pereiro is in crappy shape and has been useless when the terrain heads upward. Gurov, Noval and Stanglej (sp) have all performed as expected for the most part. It's a lot of pressure on Navarro, Grivko and Fofonov to control a peloton for just over 100KM . . . but they did it. Which is more than could be said for Astana last year when AC bonked.

He's not been left alone yet (even today, Fofonov and Grivko came in 46 seconds back, but they, along with Navarro were there until AG2R hit the gas (Navarro got stuck behind)). Again, which is better than last year.

Assuming DDLF gets healthy and Pereiro gets into some type of actually racing shape, I think they will field a pretty strong team. I don't know what their short list looks like, but if it were today (and everyone is healthy), I'd take Grivko, Fofonov, Gurov, Noval, DDLF, AC, Vino, Navarrao, Jufre.
What alby davis?:D
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Publicus said:
He and Pereiro will be drowning their sorrows in a gallon of ice cream. Neither one has proven to be worth the paper their contracts are printed on. :rolleyes:

He has been quite dissapoininting. He has shown no form that indicates that he has good form for MSR whichis a major goal for him.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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They look good enough to me. And "good enough" is likely all they need to be.

More importantly, the team does seem to be fully willing to race for Contador, ready to go all out. And full team support is more than he had last time around. A weaker team might actually give him more, so to speak.

I sometimes wonder if we got so used to the phrase "controlling the race" that we might get a bit too obsessed by it. We have gotten very used to a team that controls the race, with the leader kicking in at the last minute to finish it off.

I hope that Contador might give us some races where *he* will simply attack the race to control it, rather than let the team keep it tight. A team that just helps him with most of the nitty gritty and some breakaways, but not one that rides itself into the ground to keep it all "according to plan".

It sometimes feels like he has some of that type of blood, almost from a bygone era, in 'em. A willingness to race for control himself, rather than use a team to control. I might be totally wrong, but so far this kinda really excites me in the guy. He loves racing as much as winning it seems.

Although I can't seem him place "silly attacks", like, you know, going with 100km to go or something (you gotta love the old nutters).

But I can see him a bit less bothered about what goes on in a race from km to km than we have come to expect from leading teams in the Bruyneel era.

I fear he might feel that good.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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Interestingly they'll probably have more wins than Radio Shack most due to AC but probably some good results in the classics maybe iglinsky and vino plus tour de france stage wins and most likely a TDF win and if AC goes to the Vuelta you can expect the same there. So statistically speaking they're a pretty good team
 
Jun 16, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
going uphill they are great. but contador needs support on the flats! If you look at the stage after he won in Algarve, he was on his own and isolated. He had one guy who finished in the back of the peleton!

Today after hard stage:
10 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana at "2
50 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kaz) Astana at"46
51 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Astana s.t
93 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana 2"36
106 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Astana 16"50
119 Gorazd Stangelj (Slo) Astana s.t
125 Maxim Gourov (Kaz) Astana s.t

After hilly stages where they support him they seem to crumble.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Today after hard stage:
10 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana at "2
50 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kaz) Astana at"46
51 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Astana s.t
93 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana 2"36
106 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Astana 16"50
119 Gorazd Stangelj (Slo) Astana s.t
125 Maxim Gourov (Kaz) Astana s.t

After hilly stages where they support him they seem to crumble.

Well most of the teams were shattered see Radio shack times, you can say this was a crazy day
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Today after hard stage:
10 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana at "2
50 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kaz) Astana at"46
51 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Astana s.t
93 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana 2"36
106 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Astana 16"50
119 Gorazd Stangelj (Slo) Astana s.t
125 Maxim Gourov (Kaz) Astana s.t

Tommy D. score: 1/7 = 14.3% :eek:
 
Feb 21, 2010
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As a cast of supporters for AC, they are just fine. As a core of riders who can win many different races, not very impressive.

Will be keen to get a view on vino's role at the GT's. recalling his "own way" he took at times in Telekom, should be a spectacle. They'll either be on a hooley or tossing a ruction.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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good thread.

so far, astana is performing adequately. here are some points i feel were not addressed by previous posters.

(i) the test for new dss too. imo at paris-nice martinelli and bontempi are doing quite well with what they got. they chose the right team tactic today (defensive, not letting the breaks go) and yesterday (chasing last break with the train). martinellis experience shows.

(ii) team for the tour. it looks like astana will have enough strong climbers around berto. no one mentioned maxim iglinsky. he is certainly a tour material after his win last week at montepaschi strade bianche

(iii) vino factor. he is more that a rider. he is a co-captain, the motivating factor for kazakh riders and the tactical brain on wheels. i don’t doubt his friendship with berto and their mutual understanding. vinos attacking style adds numerous tactical opportunities in the tour.

i am impressed with grivko.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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python said:
good thread.

so far, astana is performing adequately. here are some points i feel were not addressed by previous posters.

(i) the test for new dss too. imo at paris-nice martinelli and bontempi are doing quite well with what they got. they chose the right team tactic today (defensive, not letting the breaks go) and yesterday (chasing last break with the train). martinellis experience shows.

(ii) team for the tour. it looks like astana will have enough strong climbers around berto. no one mentioned maxim iglinsky. he is certainly a tour material after his win last week at montepaschi strade bianche

(iii) vino factor. he is more that a rider. he is a co-captain, the motivating factor for kazakh riders and the tactical brain on wheels. i don’t doubt his friendship with berto and their mutual understanding. vinos attacking style adds numerous tactical opportunities in the tour.

i am impressed with grivko.
Iglinsky makes the team virtue of his Kazakh nationality. I would prefer Gaspa or Grivko, even Davis. I think IgLinsky will take Alby Davis' spot.
 
Is 5 miles on twitter the same as 20kms on live pictures?
Little bottle from Little Bottle.
He was hanging off the rear, going through a small town. A few bends then out into the open and he was gone.

I can't help but think, coming on the back of Armstrong's less than stellar performance in Murcia, that these are worrying times for the ancient ones.

If Pereiro has rubbish form, what of Popovych?

Levi's big date is fast approaching and he's in lousy shape.

Astana? Ah yes. Controlling Paris-Nice is actually a lot harder than controlling most of the TDF.
Until yesterday's crash, their other team was looking good in Italy.
Caisse have brought a near Tour team to this party.
All in all, they are doing a decent job; much better than last year.

It has become the norm for the last couple of P-N days to be fought out, mano a mano.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Francois the Postman said:
It sometimes feels like he has some of that type of blood, almost from a bygone era, in 'em. A willingness to race for control himself, rather than use a team to control. I might be totally wrong, but so far this kinda really excites me in the guy. He loves racing as much as winning it seems.

Although I can't seem him place "silly attacks", like, you know, going with 100km to go or something (you gotta love the old nutters).

But I can see him a bit less bothered about what goes on in a race from km to km than we have come to expect from leading teams in the Bruyneel era.

I fear he might feel that good.

Some people said he wouldn't be as successful without Bruyneel. Right now I look at it like the old joke, "who was the last person to hold Michael Jordan under twenty points?" The answer was Dean Smith, his coach at North Carolina. It's like now Alberto has a chance to be more Alberto, less chess piece. When he was on the start ramp of the TT & realized his radio didn't work, it was just him, his brand new bike and the road. Another day it was him on Strangelj's bike chasing like a madman and trying to get the Rabo car to speed up. Then it was milking a one kilometer climb for seconds with a sprint, and the climb to Mende. There's no telling what he'll do for us today.

I've seen where Sanquer & Martinelli are both happily adjusting to a Tour champ who races to win in February & March. He's got the weekend here, a week off so he should be fitter for Catalunya, another week off before Pais Vasco, then eight weeks including vacation before the Dauphine. Imagine if he can go four for four, then vanish for eight weeks.

He seemed to really like it when Martinelli compared him to Pantani. I almost thought I saw part of a bandana under the back of his helmet Thursday. But I can't see him this year getting to the bottom of a mountain finish with "good sensations" and not going for it just because he can.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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5 miles = 8 kms, yet with 15 kms to race Leipheimer had lost his bottle (I'll get my coat...) - dubious excuses I can laugh at, downright lies are simply pathetic.

AC must be grateful to have such a decent team supporting him after he was sent to P-N as defending champion with the weakest team in living memory. Astana will do at least enough and certainly far more than Shack seem capable of. It really is time for a reappraisal of the way teams are structured and what their aims and targets are and should be - the Bruyneel model worked for the anything goes 00s when there was never a bad day and riders were having to brake going uphill, now that age and bio passports have taken their toll, time for new models. Plus, AC is a very different rider to LA - a 'real' talent if you like rather than a 'made' rider.
 
Mellow Velo said:
Is 5 miles on twitter the same as 20kms on live pictures?
Little bottle from Little Bottle.
He was hanging off the rear, going through a small town. A few bends then out into the open and he was gone.

I can't help but think, coming on the back of Armstrong's less than stellar performance in Murcia, that these are worrying times for the ancient ones.

If Pereiro has rubbish form, what of Popovych?

Levi's big date is fast approaching and he's in lousy shape.

Astana? Ah yes. Controlling Paris-Nice is actually a lot harder than controlling most of the TDF.
Until yesterday's crash, their other team was looking good in Italy.
Caisse have brought a near Tour team to this party.
All in all, they are doing a decent job; much better than last year.

It has become the norm for the last couple of P-N days to be fought out, mano a mano.

Oh don't get me start on Pork Pork. :rolleyes: Needless to say Radio Shack has severely under performed based on the talent (at least on paper) that they brought to Paris-Nice.

I will say this, your comments put a lot of this in perspective. Paris-Nice is much harder to control than the Tour and Caisse really did bring it's A-squad to this year's edition. Astana has done well so far, which bodes well for July.
 
bianchigirl said:
5 miles = 8 kms, yet with 15 kms to race Leipheimer had lost his bottle (I'll get my coat...) - dubious excuses I can laugh at, downright lies are simply pathetic.

AC must be grateful to have such a decent team supporting him after he was sent to P-N as defending champion with the weakest team in living memory. Astana will do at least enough and certainly far more than Shack seem capable of. It really is time for a reappraisal of the way teams are structured and what their aims and targets are and should be - the Bruyneel model worked for the anything goes 00s when there was never a bad day and riders were having to brake going uphill, now that age and bio passports have taken their toll, time for new models. Plus, AC is a very different rider to LA - a 'real' talent if you like rather than a 'made' rider.

Except he never was defending champion. He won Paris-Nice in 2007 then he raced it again in 2009. As you well know, he didn't race Paris Nice in 2008.

Also, his team last year wasn't that bad in quality, but behaved badly during the race.
 
bianchigirl said:
5 miles = 8 kms, yet with 15 kms to race Leipheimer had lost his bottle (I'll get my coat...) - dubious excuses I can laugh at, downright lies are simply pathetic.

AC must be grateful to have such a decent team supporting him after he was sent to P-N as defending champion with the weakest team in living memory. Astana will do at least enough and certainly far more than Shack seem capable of. It really is time for a reappraisal of the way teams are structured and what their aims and targets are and should be - the Bruyneel model worked for the anything goes 00s when there was never a bad day and riders were having to brake going uphill, now that age and bio passports have taken their toll, time for new models. Plus, AC is a very different rider to LA - a 'real' talent if you like rather than a 'made' rider.

Excellent post. You really do write well.

Alberto himself has stated its hard to control a race like Paris-Nice as the time gaps are small along with the time bonuses for each stage.

As for Astana riders coming in down the line.... well this is expected. When a rider like Pereiro has buried himself all day for his leader he's going to peel off with 30km to go and ride temp into the finish. When a team is working for the their leader then you would expect half of them to come in well down. This is the case with Astana and in a strong showing of strength the are still pumping the Radioshack riders.

One further thought to Contador vs Levi come Tour time; The Tour is runs over 21 days. There is wind, there is cold, there is heat in face there is all sorts of elements. Contador has shown in any conditions he can ride. Levi blames the cold. Thats simply not good enough and not the talk of a guy who can win the Tour or even support Armstrong in such conditions. The Radioshack guys are handing Alberto the victory in March.
 
Sasquatch said:
Vino is a must in the Tour team as he can help Contador better than probably anyone else in the Astana squad. De La Fuente will be equally as valuable.

If we go by recent history, Vino isn't welcome at the Tour till at least 2011. Basso knew not to even try it last year. Millar had to wait a year after his suspension was over and the entire Astana team was on "probation" from the 2008 Tour. Unless they make an exception of some kind I can't see them going back on this unwritten policy. Add to that the fact that Vino was banished from the Tour and not some other race only adds to the odds being stacked against him.
 
afpm90 said:
Except he never was defending champion. He won Paris-Nice in 2007 then he raced it again in 2009. As you well know, he didn't race Paris Nice in 2008.

Also, his team last year wasn't that bad in quality, but behaved badly during the race.

It was short a strong support rider in Chris Horner who was scheduled to ride but couldn't due to injury. He likely would've been Contador's primary support in the mountains as he proved to be in the Basque Country.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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so what people think about astanas performance in stage 6 ?

i thought it was better than good. fofonov in the break up the road was somewhat risky considering they are short of solid climbers. but turned out perfect rendering help from many teams when chasing.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Angliru said:
If we go by recent history, Vino isn't welcome at the Tour till at least 2011. Basso knew not to even try it last year. Millar had to wait a year after his suspension was over and the entire Astana team was on "probation" from the 2008 Tour. Unless they make an exception of some kind I can't see them going back on this unwritten policy. Add to that the fact that Vino was banished from the Tour and not some other race only adds to the odds being stacked against him.

I wonder when the TDF will let Vino know? It's not fair to Astana to wait until the last minute.

I'm of the opinion that if you've served your suspension, you should be able to race again without restrictions. There is no probationary period I'm aware of but there does seem to be a fair amount of arbitrary application of the "rules".

I don't understand how the TDF can invite a team and then tell it which riders they can bring.