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Thoughts on Astana so far?

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Feb 8, 2010
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I think everyone is underrating Maxim Iglinsky. He would be a very good addition to any TDF team. Not only did he win in Italy last week, he got 3rd in E3 Prijs Vlaanderen last year (in a breakaway of Boonen, Iglinsky and Pozzato), his stage win at the Dauphine in 07 went over the Telegraph. He will be very good for the smaller shorter hills and at the base of the longer climbs of the alps (and more importantly this year the Pyrenees).

As for everyone else, they will be riding solely for AC, unlike last year and while the team is weaker on paper AC will be in a stronger position because of that.

The new management team also seem to be doing well, and will ensure that AC can use his attacking strength to great effect (see Paris Nice - Astana drove when needed to, relaxed when AC needed to take off the winter gear and then drove again AC attacked and won).
 
Sep 25, 2009
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whilst theswordsman is taking a break (or busy), i'll take the honour to post berto's post stage 6 comments:

http://www.albertocontador.com/prensa.detalle.php?id=327

paraphrasing:
the stage went well. other team (CdE, garmin, LG) shared the load, as i expected, because they had the stake too. my legs felt good with the arrival of the spring weather. on the last climb i expected more attacks. but i guess everyone was a bit tired. tomorrow is a difficult day. i know the route inside out. i used it to create attacking opportunities but tomorrow, may be for the first time, i'll have to approach it differently.

sound like berto is confident of winning.
 
kuat2770 said:
I think everyone is underrating Maxim Iglinsky. He would be a very good addition to any TDF team.

Agreed, and I'd also add that he was usually the last lieutenant left with Alberto in the 2008 Giro. I'd also mention Paolo Tiralongo here, who nobody's mentioned. He could be a very handy domestique, he's just come off a good, consistent 7th place in the Vuelta. DDLF will be a key domestique as well, of course.

On Pereiro and his contract, did anyone else think it 'interesting' that one of the first names linked with Astana back when they started recruiting was Rubén Plaza, and then a couple of weeks later Pereiro's contract talks were stalling with Astana, they weren't going to pay him what he was after. Then it was leaked that one of Contador's demands when re-drawing up his contract was that he could leave if any other rider tested positive on the team... and suddenly the funds were freed so they could pay Pereiro his asking price (and soon after Plaza wound up on Caisse d'Epargne)?
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Agreed, and I'd also add that he was usually the last lieutenant left with Alberto in the 2008 Giro. I'd also mention Paolo Tiralongo here, who nobody's mentioned. He could be a very handy domestique, he's just come off a good, consistent 7th place in the Vuelta. DDLF will be a key domestique as well, of course.

On Pereiro and his contract, did anyone else think it 'interesting' that one of the first names linked with Astana back when they started recruiting was Rubén Plaza, and then a couple of weeks later Pereiro's contract talks were stalling with Astana, they weren't going to pay him what he was after. Then it was leaked that one of Contador's demands when re-drawing up his contract was that he could leave if any other rider tested positive on the team... and suddenly the funds were freed so they could pay Pereiro his asking price (and soon after Plaza wound up on Caisse d'Epargne)?
I actually had different suspicions on that one. They announced Pereiro to reach the minimum rider count (it's 23 or 22 now) right at the deadline to save their license. Then when they announced their squad, I believe for Pisa camp, Josep Jufre was on there. Then the contract problems and lowered salary offer went public. I thought they made Oscar a desperation offer to meet the minimum, then reneged when they had Jufre. It was a Monday morning, and I went on a writing campaign, leaving notes on the Pereiro and Contador websites and e-mailing cycling sites and the UCI. Then there was an announcement of a lawsuit at about the same time Oscar got the call to come to camp at the agreed salary.
 
bianchigirl said:
5 miles = 8 kms, yet with 15 kms to race Leipheimer had lost his bottle (I'll get my coat...) - dubious excuses I can laugh at, downright lies are simply pathetic.

AC must be grateful to have such a decent team supporting him after he was sent to P-N as defending champion with the weakest team in living memory. Astana will do at least enough and certainly far more than Shack seem capable of. It really is time for a reappraisal of the way teams are structured and what their aims and targets are and should be - the Bruyneel model worked for the anything goes 00s when there was never a bad day and riders were having to brake going uphill, now that age and bio passports have taken their toll, time for new models. Plus, AC is a very different rider to LA - a 'real' talent if you like rather than a 'made' rider.

Was it really the weakest team in living memory?

2009 PN Astana Start list

051 CONTADOR Alberto
052 DYACHENKO Alexandr
053 NAVARRO Daniel
054 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin
055 PAULINHO Sergio
056 POPOVYCH Yaroslav
057 SCHÄR Michael
058 ZUBELDIA Haimar

2010 PN Astana Start list
31 Alberto Contador (Spain)
32 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kazakhstan)
33 Maxim Gourov (Kazakhstan)
34 Andriy Grivko (Ukraine)
35 Daniel Navarro (Spain)
36 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spain)
37 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spain)
38 Gorazd Stangelj (Slovenia)
 
Feb 14, 2010
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python said:
whilst theswordsman is taking a break (or busy), i'll take the honour to post berto's post stage 6 comments:

http://www.albertocontador.com/prensa.detalle.php?id=327

paraphrasing:
the stage went well. other team (CdE, garmin, LG) shared the load, as i expected, because they had the stake too. my legs felt good with the arrival of the spring weather. on the last climb i expected more attacks. but i guess everyone was a bit tired. tomorrow is a difficult day. i know the route inside out. i used it to create attacking opportunities but tomorrow, may be for the first time, i'll have to approach it differently.

sound like berto is confident of winning.

A different translation for the bolded part (from the English page of his website): "This time, at first, and say at first, I will approach it differently, but we'll see how everything goes."

Confident with cause. But suitably cautious.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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Francois the Postman said:
They look good enough to me. And "good enough" is likely all they need to be.

More importantly, the team does seem to be fully willing to race for Contador, ready to go all out. And full team support is more than he had last time around. A weaker team might actually give him more, so to speak.

I sometimes wonder if we got so used to the phrase "controlling the race" that we might get a bit too obsessed by it. We have gotten very used to a team that controls the race, with the leader kicking in at the last minute to finish it off.

I hope that Contador might give us some races where *he* will simply attack the race to control it, rather than let the team keep it tight. A team that just helps him with most of the nitty gritty and some breakaways, but not one that rides itself into the ground to keep it all "according to plan".

It sometimes feels like he has some of that type of blood, almost from a bygone era, in 'em. A willingness to race for control himself, rather than use a team to control. I might be totally wrong, but so far this kinda really excites me in the guy. He loves racing as much as winning it seems.

Although I can't seem him place "silly attacks", like, you know, going with 100km to go or something (you gotta love the old nutters).

But I can see him a bit less bothered about what goes on in a race from km to km than we have come to expect from leading teams in the Bruyneel era.

I fear he might feel that good.


+1
As you point out, there are many ways of controlling a race and we need to recognize the line between good tactics vs JB's solid procedures which didn't allow for much tactical flexibility.
 
Apr 12, 2009
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Potomac said:
Was it really the weakest team in living memory?

2009 PN Astana Start list

051 CONTADOR Alberto
052 DYACHENKO Alexandr
053 NAVARRO Daniel
054 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin
055 PAULINHO Sergio
056 POPOVYCH Yaroslav
057 SCHÄR Michael
058 ZUBELDIA Haimar

2010 PN Astana Start list
31 Alberto Contador (Spain)
32 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kazakhstan)
33 Maxim Gourov (Kazakhstan)
34 Andriy Grivko (Ukraine)
35 Daniel Navarro (Spain)
36 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spain)
37 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spain)
38 Gorazd Stangelj (Slovenia)

On paper they were stronger but on the road it comes down to performance and 2009 performed like kenny van hummel in the tour.
 
Potomac said:
Was it really the weakest team in living memory?

2009 PN Astana Start list

051 CONTADOR Alberto
052 DYACHENKO Alexandr
053 NAVARRO Daniel
054 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin
055 PAULINHO Sergio
056 POPOVYCH Yaroslav
057 SCHÄR Michael
058 ZUBELDIA Haimar

2010 PN Astana Start list
31 Alberto Contador (Spain)
32 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kazakhstan)
33 Maxim Gourov (Kazakhstan)
34 Andriy Grivko (Ukraine)
35 Daniel Navarro (Spain)
36 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spain)
37 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spain)
38 Gorazd Stangelj (Slovenia)

That 2009 support squad just really underperformed. It was apparent on the stage that Contador lost the race lead to LL Sanchez that their form wasn't up to the levels of the competition. One would think that with Paulinho, Zubeldia and Navarro that there would've been more support but of course that wasn't the case. It appears that their fitness levels were on par with those of this year's Radioshack squad who appear to be taking this P-N as a training ride. Perhaps Bruyneel neglected to give Contador the heads up last year that P-N was no longer a "team" objective.;)
 

DAOTEC

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Jun 16, 2009
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'ASTANA' 2010 official web-site launched ...

They kept their promise ... no april fools day ... it was aired last night right after 12, under a full moon ... The new Astana site ==>>

http://www.astana.lu/

images

Playtime is over !
 

arvens

BANNED
Mar 19, 2010
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cyclopeon said:
+1
As you point out, there are many ways of controlling a race and we need to recognize the line between good tactics vs JB's solid procedures which didn't allow for much tactical flexibility.

If you 'disobey team orders' and you win the race (and you were the team's original GC guy), is the team still to be obeyed?

I'm sorry, but Liggett on Versus had the gall to dredge up Arcalis again as some sort of indictment against AC and it still sticks in my craw. And I didn't even know I had a craw. AC saw an opportunity, he took it and it worked out very well. His DS had a different agenda. If JB would just admit it, I could salvage at least a tiny measure of respect for JB. (Maybe.)

I'll shut up now.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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arvens said:
If you 'disobey team orders' and you win the race (and you were the team's original GC guy), is the team still to be obeyed?

I'm sorry, but Liggett on Versus had the gall to dredge up Arcalis again as some sort of indictment against AC and it still sticks in my craw. And I didn't even know I had a craw. AC saw an opportunity, he took it and it worked out very well. His DS had a different agenda. If JB would just admit it, I could salvage at least a tiny measure of respect for JB. (Maybe.)

I'll shut up now.
I read that Bruyneel actually screamed at Contador on the team bus after the stage. Imagine a guy leading the Tour de France, having attacked to solidify his lead, then getting hollered at for it?

Since the thread is live again, I'm really happy with Astana so far. Maxim Iglinsky, Grivko and Gasparotto are always shaking things up in their races. The domestiques have worked really hard in the longer stage races. If Pereiro hadn't cramped, Catalunya could have been very interesting, but he still came out of it with the confidence that his training has helped him ride with the top guys once again. Fofonov says that the team is better than last year, with all of the riders encouraged to train hard and encouraged to contribute. There are still three months to the Tour de France. I need to see David de la Fuente race injury free again, and I'm happy three months in to the year.
 
theswordsman said:
I read that Bruyneel actually screamed at Contador on the team bus after the stage. Imagine a guy leading the Tour de France, having attacked to solidify his lead, then getting hollered at for it?

Now that's something I haven't heard before. Do you recall where you read that?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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theswordsman said:
I read that Bruyneel actually screamed at Contador on the team bus after the stage. Imagine a guy leading the Tour de France, having attacked to solidify his lead, then getting hollered at for it? .
That's because he didn't stick to the "team plan" of riding an easy tempo for the old barstard.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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MacRoadie said:
office-space.jpg

Riiiiiiiiiight....

....and we're going to need you to go ahead and show up Sunday, too. Mmmmkay? It is early and we'll see what teams show up. Too early to predict when the new embrocations start to kick in.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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The team colors really stand out. These guys have had a rider in the front of all the big races so far. With no more dramatics w LA and JB it looks like they have a pretty good focus.For a little squeek of a man Alberto can crush a huge gear in these early TT's.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Publicus said:
As far as I can tell, it's one teammate and two friends.

I agree.


The thing I like about Astana is how they allow many different guys to target different races (like a cycling TEAM should do). Gasparotto, M.Iglinsky, and Contador already have wins this year. Grivko is in a good position for a possible podium at 3days. Vino and Pereiro both look like they have good possibilities this year. There's a lot going on at Astana besides just the TdF (which is as it should be).
 
Feb 14, 2010
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arvens said:
If you 'disobey team orders' and you win the race (and you were the team's original GC guy), is the team still to be obeyed?

I'm sorry, but Liggett on Versus had the gall to dredge up Arcalis again as some sort of indictment against AC and it still sticks in my craw. And I didn't even know I had a craw. AC saw an opportunity, he took it and it worked out very well. His DS had a different agenda. If JB would just admit it, I could salvage at least a tiny measure of respect for JB. (Maybe.)

I'll shut up now.

I agree with your agreeing with Contador going. Sorry, I wasn't clear that I was being sarcastic about "JB's solid procedures". Tactics is more about when than what, so it is proper and fitting that the race leader makes decisions on the road without referring back to the team car, since by the time he has explained, the director has discussed and a conclusion is reached the opportunity is gone and lost. There are times to discuss and times to just react. Of course non-cycling history is littered with the trunkated careers of junior leaders who acted against orders, were proven correct by the outcome, won the day, and were punished while the dumb boss reaped the glory and credit.

Continuing the topic of the thread, seems to me too that Astana continues to grow as a team and if they stay on track and aren't plagued with injuries will be one of the more capable teams at the Tour and certainly good enough to support AC for the GC win.
 

DAOTEC

BANNED
Jun 16, 2009
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2011 ... Looks like AC isn't going anywhere !!!

VINO: "Con Contador formaré el Dream Team Astaná"


Contador_formare_Dream_Team_Astana.jpg


01/04/2010 | We will form a dream team in the future

Alexandre Vinokourov and Alberto Contador raced for the first time in a race as partners in the Criterium International in Corsica this weekend: "I really wanted to race with Alberto. Together we will form the Dream Team Astana 2010." The Kazakh-and not as happened last year with Lance Armstrong, seems happy to lend a hand to Madrid: "I am particularly proud to have embarked on this project with Contador. I hope to provide my support and my experience."

On Saturday, the climb to L'Ospedale, Vino was the last Astana rider to launch Contador: Vino set a fast pace for two miles, which "unfortunately" could not take his team leader to the win. In the Tour de France Vino should also assume to get that role, and presumably will be the best lieutenant Alberto (a role that will also have to play David de la Fuente and Oscar Pereiro): "The team did an outstanding job for our leader. We work from the start of the day and help on the final climb. All that we know to apply in future big races in which we participate, and shall be valid as an exercise in preparation for the Tour. Always look forward. "

Past.
With regard to the economic problems that nearly left the unlicensed Astana ProTour for the 2010 season and his two-year suspension for doping, Vinokourov removed the bright side: "Since the inception of the squad four years ago we have experienced ups and downs. Our strength is that we learn from the bad and stayed with the good to improve. "

Looking ahead, Vinokourov wants the young talents of his country as soon as possible to integrate the dynamics of the training: "For us, it is important that children who are now coming together with Kazakh run counter to get used to cycling high level. " But what I want above all is that Spanish remains in Astana in 2011.

Translation out of Esp: http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo/ciclismo-contador-formare-dream-team/dasclm/20100401dasdaicic_1/Tes