Tim Kerrison

[veganrob]

At last, a voice of reason amongst the clamour of hysteria.

If Sky were doping their way to world domination, explain the Olympic RR. The Worlds RR. The Vuelta.

Sky chose riders and prepared for the TdF, with a strategy matched for the parcours and the competition. Won't happen again.

Or was the parcours made to match Sky strength and strategy. Possible.

We can't forget Fat Pat's comments made at the mid point of TdF of going to the Sky victory celebration . Hmm

 

[doolols]

Or was the parcours made to match Sky strength and strategy. Possible.

We can't forget Fat Pat's comments made at the mid point of TdF of going to the Sky victory celebration . Hmm

Fair points. Link in that Sky are sponsored by a world-wide communications company (especially TV), and you can see why Phat might want to cosey up to them.

 

[bianchigirl]

Thought it was fairly well known that sky bought that parcours

 

[thehog]

At last, a voice of reason amongst the clamour of hysteria.

If Sky were doping their way to world domination, explain the Olympic RR. The Worlds RR. The Vuelta.

Sky chose riders and prepared for the TdF, with a strategy matched for the parcours and the competition. Won't happen again.

Enough. Doping is a program not a once taken magic pill.

Why do you think Armstrong bailed each year at the end of the Tour? You cannot keep injecting and transfusing year round.

Sky riders Olympic performance from an human athletic point of view was phenomenal. Never seen anything like it. Wiggins rode on the front from most of the race and was still reeling in the break with 8km to go. That's insane. Froome was much the same. Then two days later they went on and went 1-3 in the TT. Not normal.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Sky riders Olympic performance from an human athletic point of view was phenomenal. Never seen anything like it.

Telekom annexing the entire podium in the Sydney OGs was pretty impressive as well. Albeit not a good precedent for Sky's cleanliness, one must admit.

 

[thehog]

Telekom annexing the entire podium in the Sydney OGs was pretty impressive as well. Albeit not a good precedent for Sky's cleanliness, one must admit.

That was a good ride by those guys that day. They must of set up shop well in Sydney. Armstrong and others were dismal. The new EPO test didn't help many in that race. Scared a few off.

Still it was nothing like Sky who rode on the front from kilometre 3.

 

[bianchigirl]

Like I say, last time I saw a ride like that up close to was when I last saw Armstrong in a tt - certainly not the wiggins of Poitou charente

 

[Bala Verde]

A write up I did on Velorooms, based on an article in Procyling and other info..

Do you think it's reasonable for SKY to allow an - up until then in cycling (Kerrison was hired to be Wiggins' man late 2010) - unknown sports scientist [in cycling] to coordinate the training of their highest paid and most valuable asset, based on zero evidence that "his" training program actually works for cyclists? And then he started and it just happened to work?

That sounds quite radical, as opposed to revolutionary, at least from a business perspective. In a sense, it's almost as if they were really lucky it "just happened to work."

I mean, if your factory's machines are not performing well, and everyone recommends some well known mechanics to fix it, but the CEO allows some random plumber [not meant pejoratively; merely trying to indicate he is not from the same industry] to have a look at the problem, and this CEO has so much faith [you can't really call it otherwise, since he'd never shown to be a capable cycling coach] in him that he allows him to work on the most high end machine in his most important factory that produces 50% of his output... I think people would have advised the CEO to have the plumber work on a smaller piece of equipment first somewhere, to see if this new guy actually knew what he was doing...

I guess some cycling coaches have been designing training programs, and tweaking them, for decades, to squeeze every last % of performance out of a body, and this "plumber" swoops in and within a year, it "just all comes together." Remarkable.

Secondly, has he ever released (any of) his training methods, so that other scientists could actually replicate his methods and evaluate performance?

Didn't you write something about signing for a cricket team? Is there a lot of money in cricket (for staffing?) Does anyone know how much he was, was about to be, and is paid? So in this context, and given his tremendous ability to increase performance and create superstars, did all other branches of sports, from NFL, to soccer, to tennis, to curling and chess, just happen to miss his genius? He was 'just' destined for cricket?

You also mentioned he left (Australian?) swimming in 2008, but it appears he started working for Wiggins late 2010. What did he do in between? Did he then worm for UK swimming?

 

[The Hitch]

If that was really the case the Clinic would have but a handful of people posting in it.

Well, i cant speak for other clinic posters and some are hypocrites, but me personally, i accept that any rider can be questioned whether i like them, support them or not. All riders same rules.

Sky on the other hand their position is that you cannot accuse riders of being dopers unless you have proof. Ok, but therefore they cannot by their own principles go on Kerrison making blanket statements about all coaching before him being doping based.

However it is not totally clear in froomes posts where Kerrisons and Sky's opinion ended and froome19's opinion began so if it was Froome 19 who was making the point that all training before hand had been doping based then sky are spared the charge of hypocricy in this case though my point stands that it would be wrong of kerrison and sky to make such an argument.

Though Froome 19 would not be spared as he has shown some inconsistnecy when he said that he does not trust people who doped, when talking about Movistar, then said that he does trust former dopers opinions when talking about Vaughters.

 

[The Hitch]

At last, a voice of reason amongst the clamour of hysteria.

If Sky were doping their way to world domination, explain the Olympic RR. The Worlds RR. The Vuelta.

Sky chose riders and prepared for the TdF, with a strategy matched for the parcours and the competition. Won't happen again.

I dont think Sky are doping to world domination, but what is it with people using the Vuelta as an example?

Compared to the Tour the Vuelta means absolutely nothing for Sky. They could win all 5 monuments and all 3 gts next year and it wont mean half as much as the 2012 tdf win. What with it being just before the olympics, Froome could win 8 tdfs and 15 gts total and he will never be as big as wiggins in this country because wiggins won it first and wiggins won it in 2012.

Not that there is any suggestion that sky were clean at the Vuelta seeing as how froome (the guy who was a nobody just 1 year earlier) lost only to the 2 most succesful convicted dopers in the sport, and rider trained by a doper.

And he was falling off peak and with significant fatigue.

 

[thehog]

I dont think Sky are doping to world domination, but what is it with people using the Vuelta as an example?

Compared to the Tour the Vuelta means absolutely nothing for Sky. They could win all 5 monuments and all 3 gts next year and it wont mean half as much as the 2012 tdf win. What with it being just before the olympics, Froome could win 8 tdfs and 15 gts total and he will never be as big as wiggins in this country because wiggins won it first and wiggins won it in 2012.

Not that there is any suggestion that sky were clean at the Vuelta seeing as how froome (the guy who was a nobody just 1 year earlier) lost only to the 2 most succesful convicted dopers in the sport, and rider trained by a doper.

And he was falling off peak and with significant fatigue.

All of this is 100% correct.

 

[armchairclimber]

I dont think Sky are doping to world domination, but what is it with people using the Vuelta as an example?

Compared to the Tour the Vuelta means absolutely nothing for Sky. They could win all 5 monuments and all 3 gts next year and it wont mean half as much as the 2012 tdf win. What with it being just before the olympics, Froome could win 8 tdfs and 15 gts total and he will never be as big as wiggins in this country because wiggins won it first and wiggins won it in 2012.

Not that there is any suggestion that sky were clean at the Vuelta seeing as how froome (the guy who was a nobody just 1 year earlier) lost only to the 2 most succesful convicted dopers in the sport, and rider trained by a doper.

And he was falling off peak and with significant fatigue.

You raise a few interesting points in these two posts. SKY aren't off limits...they have been pretty much in the spotlight this year for obvious reasons and questioned accordingly.

Personally, I'm torn. I have been watching cycling since the Lemond/Fignon tour. I've enjoyed pretty much all of it...regardless of the doping. I accepted, for many years, that it was part of the sport.

I'm not given to nationalism or jingoism but it was, I have to admit, good to see British cyclists doing well in recent tours...Cav obviously, then Wiggins from 2009. I make no apology for that. I hadn't thought it likely at all for years. However, the SKY thing is a problem for me (as it is for a lot of Brits, I suspect). The association with Murdoch makes it hard for me to cheer them on....but I understand...I'm pragmatic enough to see that the money invested in British cycling is what made this "unlikely" thing happen.

As you know Hitch, scarcely anyone in the UK knows what the Giro, Dauphine, Vuelta, Paris Nice etc are. Everyone though knows what the TDF is and what it means. Brailsford made it the stated aim to win it, clean, with a British rider. It couldn't have been done without SKY....that sucks. Like you said, they couldn't give a monkeys about the Vuelta.

Wiggins is clean. Don't know about Froome or Porte, Rogers etc. If SKY are going to be interrogated it should be the Leinders issue. Kerrison, meh, a sideshow. Performance...nothing to see (no performance indicative of doping).

It's not a Brit thing...some Brits cheat, as with any other nation. SKY is Aussie owned. The team is multi-national (hawk, spit). You are right to point out that the Olympics was more important to the great British public and that Froome could win 10 tours and it wouldn't have the impact that Wiggins had this year. Stop and think though....that's not Wiggins' fault. Just timing.

 

[The Hitch]

Im confused by your post. You spend 4 paragraphs explaining why you have a healthy scepticism of the sport and saying that you have national bias, only to then suddenly and catergoricaly declare that while you dont know if the 2 ozzies nor the kenyan born and raised not to be trusted teammate was doping, Wiggins is definately clean?

 

[armchairclimber]

Im confused by your post. You spend 4 paragraphs explaining why you have a healthy scepticism of the sport and saying that you have national bias, only to then suddenly and catergoricaly declare that while you dont know if the 2 ozzies nor the kenyan born and raised not to be trusted teammate was doping, Wiggins is definately clean?

Not cause and effect. I'm only informed on Wiggins...in the dark with the others.

Our personal feelings are complex aren't they? Just imagine wanting to cheer on a British team (for a change) but finding it impossible because you loathe the brand.

Clearly, I've spent the last 30 years as a fan of cyclists from elsewhere. My favourite rider now is Tommy V.

 

[bianchigirl]

Wiggins is clean because, um, he says he is - wonder how many tests he'll start claiming to have passed?

 

[blackcat]

Wiggins is clean because, um, he says he is - wonder how many tests he'll start claiming to have passed?

pity they dont run murder trials like that eh

 

[Benotti69]

pity they dont run murder trials like that eh

No one is being put on death row here.

Speculation is pretty much all posters can do in the clinic.

But if a rider like Wiggins who was so outspoken about doping now rarely mentions how anti-doping he still is or calls out those convcited of doping but praises the likes of Armstrong and USPostal one can speculate why he is apparently doing a u-turn.

.....I'm only informed on Wiggins...in the dark with the others......

Can you inform us on Wiggins then and explain how you can be so 'informed' on him and not his team mates?

 

[thehog]

No one is being put on death row here.

Speculation is pretty much all posters can do in the clinic.

But if a rider like Wiggins who was so outspoken about doping now rarely mentions how anti-doping he still is or calls out those convcited of doping but praises the likes of Armstrong and USPostal one can speculate why he is apparently doing a u-turn.



Can you inform us on Wiggins then and explain how you can be so 'informed' on him and not his team mates?

I'm trying to work out what was the significant event in the sport whereby doping was all of sudden eradicated from the sport?

Presumably the minute Sky began to dominate doping ended.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm trying to work out what was the significant event in the sport whereby doping was all of sudden eradicated from the sport?

Presumably the minute Sky began to dominate doping ended.

The day Wiggins put on a Sky jersey was year zero for cycling and doping was over and a new dawn began.

KhmerSkyBlue have shown the way.

 

[oldcrank]

I'm trying to work out what was the significant event in the sport whereby doping was all of sudden eradicated from the sport?

I presumed it was with the triumphant return of Alberto Contador
and his tactical brilliance and his repeated attacks in the Vuelta,
a race famous for it's numerous controls and disqualifications.

 

[thehog]

I presumed it was with the triumphant return of Alberto Contador and his tactical brilliance and his repeated attacks in the Vuelta,
a race famous for it's numerous controls and disqualifications.

Exactly my point. Doping hasn't ended. Neither in the Vuelta nor the Tour.

Thank-you.

(Side note: Heras was Spanish and tested positive in the Vuelta as did Mosquera in 2010 - he was Spanish also)

 

[armchairclimber]

I can't remember a single post in the clinic or elsewhere suggesting that doping has ended.

 

[thehog]

I can't remember a single post in the clinic or elsewhere suggesting that doping has ended.

Only with the Sky team. They ended doping. Beat doping with marginal gains.


"There's no proof" - thanks Phil.

 

[oldcrank]

I can't remember a single post in the clinic or elsewhere suggesting that doping has ended.

Contador is so tactically brilliant he doesn't need to dope.

 

[thehog]

Exactly my point. Doping hasn't ended. Neither in the Vuelta nor the Tour.

Thank-you.

(Side note: Heras was Spanish and tested positive in the Vuelta as did Mosquera in 2010 - he was Spanish also)

Thanks Hog. Good post.