Tim Kerrison

[ToreBear]

Thanks Hog. Good post.

You forgot to use your sockpuppet for that one dude.

 

[maltiv]

Sky never once looked uncomfortable in the tour. In a clean race a rider should have at least 1 bad day. No one on Sky seemed to have a bad day.

Not really, this is a common misunderstanding. A lot of those awfully bad days are due to doping, not due to the lack of it. E.g. a blood transfusion that went wrong. See Landis, Vino etc. Having those huge variations in form from one day to another with no logical medical explanation is simply not normal.

Small variations are expected on one's daily form if you're clean, but how do you know none of them had those? There were days when Porte and Rogers were dropped early as well, for example on the stage Pinot won. But if you happen to have your bad day(s) on a flat stage, then obviously no one will notice...

 

[thehog]

You forgot to use your sockpuppet for that one dude.

I like to reward excellence wherever I see it.

 

[ToreBear]

I like to reward excellence wherever I see it.

Ah ok, carry on.

 

[Benotti69]

Not really, this is a common misunderstanding. A lot of those awfully bad days are due to doping, not due to the lack of it. E.g. a blood transfusion that went wrong. See Landis, Vino etc. Having those huge variations in form from one day to another with no logical medical explanation is simply not normal.

Small variations are expected on one's daily form if you're clean, but how do you know none of them had those? There were days when Porte and Rogers were dropped early as well, for example on the stage Pinot won. But if you happen to have your bad day(s) on a flat stage, then obviously no one will notice...

No a rider riding clean will have at least 1 day where his body just wont respond.

Doping riders normally perform well for the whole race. The exceptions are bad blood bag days.

 

[thehog]

Not really, this is a common misunderstanding. A lot of those awfully bad days are due to doping, not due to the lack of it. E.g. a blood transfusion that went wrong. See Landis, Vino etc. Having those huge variations in form from one day to another with no logical medical explanation is simply not normal.

Small variations are expected on one's daily form if you're clean, but how do you know none of them had those? There were days when Porte and Rogers were dropped early as well, for example on the stage Pinot won. But if you happen to have your bad day(s) on a flat stage, then obviously no one will notice...

Wiggins had bad days in the 2010 Tour.

And in 2009.

 

[Jeremiah]

I can't remember a single post in the clinic or elsewhere suggesting that doping has ended.

Kerrison is a genius! Do the quality and strength work first and then add volume!

Marginal gains! Have those recovery drinks ready! Time is of the essence!

Kerrison along with wonderboy also recognized that the human body has evolved. (I just made that up re Kerrison, maybe he believes it's true?)

Doping in cycling is now like doping in sex. You can't take vitamin V, and put in a good 60 without raising suspicions! Holding back is very important..

DO NOT GO OVER THE TOP!

 

[armchairclimber]

Thanks Hog. Good post.

What a nugget.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

No a rider riding clean will have at least 1 day where his body just wont respond.

Doping riders normally perform well for the whole race. The exceptions are bad blood bag days.

It's interesting that of the non-Sky GT contenders in this year's Tour, there was only really Evans who had a proper "bad day". The others lost time by means of modest time losses here and there (and in Tejay's case, hanging back for Evans) other than in the TTs, where they all got a tonking.

I wonder what this tells us. There seems potential to spin it which ever way you want!

 

[maltiv]

No a rider riding clean will have at least 1 day where his body just wont respond.

Doping riders normally perform well for the whole race. The exceptions are bad blood bag days.

Do you base this on actual studies and science, or do you just pull that out of nowhere? You can't just present things as a known fact without any proof whatsoever (unless you are religious)

For all we know Wiggins might've had 10 bad days in the TDF, all during the flat stages...Anyway, I won't say I have raced a grand tour, but I've done some stage races and I've never experienced the "bad day" you seem to describe without there being a medical explanation for it.

But since Knees, Rogers, Porte, EBH etc all clearly had some bad days during the race, I guess that "proves" they are clean at least by your incredibly flawed logic.

 

[veganrob]

Do you base this on actual studies and science, or do you just pull that out of nowhere? You can't just present things as a known fact without any proof whatsoever (unless you are religious)

For all we know Wiggins might've had 10 bad days in the TDF, all during the flat stages...Anyway, I won't say I have raced a grand tour, but I've done some stage races and I've never experienced the "bad day" you seem to describe without there being a medical explanation for it.

But since Knees, Rogers, Porte, EBH etc all clearly had some bad days during the race, I guess that "proves" they are clean at least by your incredibly flawed logic.

I've never raced a stage race longer than three events/two days. It does seem to me though that over three weeks for a clean rider, racing on the edge so often, the immune system suffers far more and is susceptble to the bad days more so than the rider that has illegal products to help in the recovery. Ability to recover from strong efforts is what stage racing is all about.
So if the above riders bad days is proof they are clean, I don't think so at all. And we also don't know if Wiggo had 10 days they all just happened on the flat. I don't think so. I do however agree with Benotti's scenario much more.

 

[Benotti69]

Do you base this on actual studies and science, or do you just pull that out of nowhere? You can't just present things as a known fact without any proof whatsoever (unless you are religious)

For all we know Wiggins might've had 10 bad days in the TDF, all during the flat stages...Anyway, I won't say I have raced a grand tour, but I've done some stage races and I've never experienced the "bad day" you seem to describe without there being a medical explanation for it.

But since Knees, Rogers, Porte, EBH etc all clearly had some bad days during the race, I guess that "proves" they are clean at least by your incredibly flawed logic.

Dont be blinded by science. Look at the reality of racing 3 weeks.

 

[thehog]

Do you base this on actual studies and science, or do you just pull that out of nowhere? You can't just present things as a known fact without any proof whatsoever (unless you are religious)

For all we know Wiggins might've had 10 bad days in the TDF, all during the flat stages...Anyway, I won't say I have raced a grand tour, but I've done some stage races and I've never experienced the "bad day" you seem to describe without there being a medical explanation for it.

But since Knees, Rogers, Porte, EBH etc all clearly had some bad days during the race, I guess that "proves" they are clean at least by your incredibly flawed logic.

You do realise and putting nationalism aside for one moment statistically speaking that; 99.9999999% of all Tour de France winners for the last 20 years have been doping.

Proven fact.

What made 2012 buck this trend?

In a race dominated like none other in the history of the sport do you want me to believe a 0.00000000000001% chance that the winner wasn't doping?

Simply not possible. Statistically, mathematically, logically not possible.

 

[Velo1ticker]

You do realise and putting nationalism aside for one moment statistically speaking that; 99.9999999% of all Tour de France winners for the last 20 years have been doping.

Proven fact.

What made 2012 buck this trend?

In a race dominated like none other in the history of the sport do you want me to believe a 0.00000000000001% chance that the winner wasn't doping?

Simply not possible. Statistically, mathematically, logically not possible.

So according to the inhouse professor we will never have a clean winner. Why not get a degree in statistical anaysis before you make stupid unlogical conclusions?

(I am not excluding anything but what about an overlooked fact: Large amounts of money can buy better riders.
This is a better thread than the nuclear terrorbomb thread: Sky - let's accuse everyone at sky)

 

[thehog]

So according to the inhouse professor we will never have a clean winner. Why not get a degree in statistical anaysis before you make stupid unlogical conclusions?

(I am not excluding anything but what about an overlooked fact: Large amounts of money can buy better riders.
This is a better thread than the nuclear terrorbomb thread: Sky - let's accuse everyone at sky)

I think the word you're looking for is 'illogical' - unlogical is not a word.

Nothing I state is stupid at all. Based on 100% fact.

Based on your theory all of a sudden an entire team dominates start to finish and its a new era of clean cyling. TeeJay, Basso and Nibili have all backed up the fact that it was impossiable to attack.

Buying better riders doesn't mean no doping. The statistics still stand.

You could take it one step further. Not only the winner. But top 5, Top 10 99.9999999% in the last 20 years have been doping. That's hard to refute.

 

[RichWalk]

So according to the inhouse professor we will never have a clean winner. Why not get a degree in statistical anaysis before you make stupid unlogical conclusions?

(I am not excluding anything but what about an overlooked fact: Large amounts of money can buy better riders.This is a better thread than the nuclear terrorbomb thread: Sky - let's accuse everyone at sky)

It also buys you better 'programs' better doctors, better PR etc etc the list goes on; what it does not buy you is guaranteed performance, that doesnt even apply to Formula 1 and we are largely focusing on a car not a human being...............

 

[veganrob]

It also buys you better 'programs' better doctors, better PR etc etc the list goes on; what it does not buy you is guaranteed performance, that doesnt even apply to Formula 1 and we are largely focusing on a car not a human being...............

+1 Would we have ever heard of Chris Froome if Sky didn't invest in the better program.
It is in small print though so it could easily be missed by careless DS.

 

[Velo1ticker]

It also buys you better 'programs' better doctors, better PR etc etc the list goes on; what it does not buy you is guaranteed performance, that doesnt even apply to Formula 1 and we are largely focusing on a car not a human being...............

So having money IS the same as taking dope! Yes, you can buy dope but you can also choose to buy a better rider (someone may do that one day and I think someone has - right?). What's payday like at your house? Req.Dope GP?

 

[The Hitch]

(I am not excluding anything but what about an overlooked fact: Large amounts of money can buy better riders.
This is a better thread than the nuclear terrorbomb thread: Sky - let's accuse everyone at sky)

As hrotha pointed out who did they buy to win the tdf? Froome whose claim to fame was beating the grupetto on a tdf stage 4 years ago. mick rogers, frequent gruppeto member since he stopped working with ferrari. Richie Porte who barely kept up on the flat last year.

People using the more money argument actually makes me more suspicious of sky, because they clearly DID NOT, buy top quality riders, they bought relatively cheap and poor performing ones.

 

[bianchigirl]

You could say the same about postal - buy em cheap & spend money on doping em up not to be thoroughbreds but to be bloody good carthorses.

HAve always wondered what exactly sky's intensive testing seeks to identify - prospective performance or potential response to doping

 

[armchairclimber]

It's a shame about the SKY brand because I do like just how much they've got up the noses of some of you. Funny to watch. "It would have been fine if it wasn't for those pesky Brits and their pharmaceutical gains."

 

[ferryman]

It's a shame about the SKY brand because I do like just how much they've got up the noses of some of you. Funny to watch. "It would have been fine if it wasn't for those pesky Brits and their pharmaceutical gains."

Just about as funny, as most on here have found the July Brits, in defending your proud clean boys.

 

[Bag of Guts]

I've so far resisted wading in to this Team Sky debate clustercuss but I found this fairly banal, PR puff piece/interview too amusing to pass unmentioned.

At 4:58 Tim Kerrison is asked a doping question...

http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

Jesus! The guy goes bananas. Is it just me? Is anyone here well versed in the interpretion of body language? I'd love to hear a professional opinion. It made me think of The Chicken's super-slippery responses to questioning during the '07 tour in the days leading up to his ejection. Oozing with guilt. Comically so.

I could, of course, be mistaking a monarch for a giant lizard but this is The Clinic after all.

 

[thehog]

I've so far resisted wading in to this Team Sky debate clustercuss but I found this fairly banal, PR puff piece/interview too amusing to pass unmentioned.

At 4:58 Tim Kerrison is asked a doping question...

http://video.cyclingnews.com/video/...&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

Jesus! The guy goes bananas. Is it just me? Is anyone here well versed in the interpretion of body language? I'd love to hear a professional opinion. It made me think of The Chicken's super-slippery responses to questioning during the '07 tour in the days leading up to his ejection. Oozing with guilt. Comically so.

I could, of course, be mistaking a monarch for a giant lizard but this is The Clinic after all.

Did he just drop a Chris Froome personality pill?

Last time Kerrison is seen on camera. Stick to the power outputs and numbers.

Open doors? Ya kidding me man.

 

[veganrob]

He certainly appears to be a bit of a strange dude. He was kinda bobbing and weaving through the whole interview. Then started stumbling around the doping question.