Time to declare year zero?

[JMBeaushrimp]

I feel your pain. And I'm an admin here.

I'm not really looking to be done with all of it, and I'd guess you aren't either, but it's become nearly impossible to watch racing when every single time you think there's some sense of hope for integrity to where someone clean actually has a chance, the rug is pulled out underneath you and you're kicked in the gut, or lower.

Where left do we turn to admire the beauty of the sport?

I still ask the same questions as before. Would you want your child to get into competitive cycling today? Would your business sponsor the sport? If you ran a broadcast network, would you cover the sport? Do you think you could even get a sponsor for the broadcast?

At the rate we're going, pretty soon there won't be much money left, crowds will remain, but diminish and be jaded, and the talent pool of young athletes is going to dry up.

Haha! You're right... I can't be done with 'all' of it. I'm a multi-generational bike racer, and have the beauty of the sport too deeply ground into my genes to honestly drive it out of my life entirely. Although I'm feeling a bit more jaded and spiteful about the scene in general.

As to admiring the beauty of the sport? It was great in the pre-EPO days, but then that ended. It used to be the amatures at the big games etc., then the pros got in... It used to be U23, then that got corrupted by the pros... It used to be the jrs., then they started allying themselves with the pro teams and getting popped...

If my kids really want to give cycling a shot, I'll support them. That's how I got into it - I gave it a shot after running through a couple of other sports, and it was there, my dad did it, and I thought I could do it. I'm also prepared to be honest with them about it, and I'll be there with my shoulder to cry on when they get their idealistic dreams smashed.

Fortunately that can still be a valid lesson from sport - cheating is cheating, life's NOT fair, and chances are that it'll kick you in nuts at some point.

My problem is that I really am an idealist. A previous poster mentioned that sport is supposed to vicious, and I totally agree. The ideal of sport is that your viciousness should be played out in an arena of explicit fairness. That's not to say that sport's fair, it's not - someone wins, everyone else is beaten. It's to say that the ideal of sport should be that you are standing (or riding) there with nothing but what nature has given you. Then the gloves come off, and what happens happens. Disparaging that beautiful nature of sport through doping does nothing good for anyone, and can really be destructive to the psyches of the cheaters - providing they give a sh*t.

Would I sponsor cycling? From a corporate standpoint, of course! There's no such thing as bad advertising, you're still getting your name out to millions of fans and the few thousand ****ers and moaners (present company included) really don't ammount to much in the end...

Am I sounded bitter enough, yet?

 

[GoneWithTailWind]

In order to declare year zero wouldn't they need to get buy in from others, e.g. Italian police, French police etc? I can see them at border control - "No, no! It's Ok now! The UCI have legalised this stuff"...

Jeff, haven't you heard? Call it off. It's Ok now!

 

[GoneWithTailWind]

Maybe it's time to declare the whole thing Ground Zero...

...sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Roninho]

No. Year Zero can only be declared when:

1. The UCI have been disbanded and replaced with an organisation overseeing the commercial side only;

2. Drug testing and enforcing is carried out by a 100% independent body with no financial interest in cycling;

3. Drug tests and the biopassport are sufficiently developed to significantly increase the liklihood of doping (including transfusions) being revealed.

It really starts with point 3. There is allready a cycling culture in which many riders dope, and as long as the odds of getting busted are minimal nothing will chance.

What really has been sorry to see in the Landis allegations and the this (semi?) Contador-cover up is that it appears that the UCI is actually actively NOT busting topriders.

 

[Magnus]

It's to say that the ideal of sport should be that you are standing (or riding) there with nothing but what nature has given you.

But why this ideal?

I'ld be happy if you'ld elaborate on this point of view.
In my opinion you would have to believe in some kind of greater being in order for this ideal to be valid. Otherwise i can't see why disrupting this 'natural order' should be a problem.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

But why this ideal?

I'ld be happy if you'ld elaborate on this point of view.
In my opinion you would have to believe in some kind of greater being in order for this ideal to be valid. Otherwise i can't see why disrupting this 'natural order' should be a problem.

Why this ideal? Because it IS the ideal of sport - fair competition. It's why there are rules, and doping control, in all sport.

This is not contingent upon the belief of a greater being. Quite the opposite. It's the acknowledgement that you bring to competition only what you're naturally capable of with all the attending skills and abilities that the genetic lottery has given you. Not god-given, but what you happen to get through your own genetic history coupled with what you add to the equation through hard work and training.

I understand that an argument could be made that this results in an other form of 'unfairness' as each individual is in possesion of unique abilities, creating an inherently 'unlevel' playing field. Although this field of competition may seem 'unlevel', it is in fact what the nature of sport is - although each individual posseses unique attributes, it is not always clear that the more genetically endowed will win everytime.

Disrupting this 'natural order' denigrates the nature of sport as it confuses the drive to win at all costs with what ideal of sport is - to do the best with what you have, as hard as you can.

I understand this sounds very idealistic, but I think that's what we're talking about. The IDEAL of sport.

 

[Magnus]

Why this ideal? Because it IS the ideal of sport - fair competition. It's why there are rules, and doping control, in all sport.

I like the rules too. I guess what I don't understand is why people get so upset about athletes violating doping regulations compared to other rules. Example:
If a football(soccer) player makes an illegal tackle the ref call free kick and people say the rules have been followed.
If an athlete fails a doping test and get banned the rules have been broken.

Why is it okay to brake some rules but not okay to brake others?

 

[Darryl Webster]

Why is it okay to brake some rules but not okay to brake others?

Not all rules are of equal value neither does breaking them have the same effect.

 

[sartain]

I thought 2006 was year zero?

Or was it 1999?

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

A LOT . . . just look at all of LA's sponsors . . . none have left the fold, in fact, they can't toss enough money at him fast enough.

 

[Oldman]

Not all rules are of equal value neither does breaking them have the same effect.

...particularly when they are selectively enforced. I love this McQuack quote:

“The effectiveness of the action taken by the UCI to combat this real problem – which is common to all sports - has been repeatedly recognised by the most important institutions in sport, including the International Olympic Committee and World Anti-Doping Agency, who we co-operate with very closely.”

The IOC is rife with similar selective enforcement of rules and ethics of principal IOC members; hardly a ringing endorsement. WADA simply has acknowledged that the UCI's efforts have not been always, er...good enough?
They suck and that's why the doping trend continued since all the Bio-passport appeared to accomplish was redefine the "limits" the cheaters could work within. And they did and will continue until they get busted.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I like the rules too. I guess what I don't understand is why people get so upset about athletes violating doping regulations compared to other rules. Example:
If a football(soccer) player makes an illegal tackle the ref call free kick and people say the rules have been followed.
If an athlete fails a doping test and get banned the rules have been broken.

Why is it okay to brake some rules but not okay to brake others?

You're dragging a subjective sport into the objective sport debate.

Football is sort of subjective since you have a ref (coupled with a couple of line-men, and hopefully in the future someone on the monitor) making the calls as to what's acceptable.

We're talking cycling. F*ck the footies. The idea (and hopefully IDEAL) that we're talking about in cycling, is that you can throw it down and be as hard as you're capable of being.

I'm not talking about stepping on someone's foot, planting a foot to stop the run, grabbing a jersey to drag someone down, etc etc (as per the footie example). I mean young riders being able to step to the fore, and in full confidence having faith with what they can do. THAT is the undeniable beauty of sport!

Imagine you're sixteen years old, feeling strong, and want nothing more than show your power. That's awesome!

Even if they don't win, they're going to learn something. Is that not beautiful?

In our tragically corporate society, sport is something that can stand as a social example of cultural meritocracy at an explicit level.

That's all I got.

Agree?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I've thought about this over the last day and I think the only way we're going to even get to "year zero" is if we have a total overhaul of the UCI, and with it a new restructuring of how doping is combated, and treated by the sport; the officials, and the riders and support staff.

I think this latest indication of an attempted cover-up by McQuaid, plus the fact it's painfully obvious that despite he and the UCI repeatedly telling us that doping has all but been rid of from the sport, it's still quite permeated throughout shows we're not at year zero.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I've thought about this over the last day and I think the only way we're going to even get to "year zero" is if we have a total overhaul of the UCI, and with it a new restructuring of how doping is combated, and treated by the sport; the officials, and the riders and support staff.

I think this latest indication of an attempted cover-up by McQuaid, plus the fact it's painfully obvious that despite he and the UCI repeatedly telling us that doping has all but been rid of from the sport, it's still quite permeated throughout shows we're not at year zero.

Not even close to zero...

It may very well never end. But does that mean the loud mouths should shut up? I would say 'Absolutely not!'.

You know where I stand on this... Unfortunately based mostly on philosophic argumentation (and some personal experience), which actually is a pretty good place to get a discussion going...

Wait a minute... Does CyclingNews need an in-house philosopher/correspondent? I've got some good connections....

 

[Benotti69]

I've thought about this over the last day and I think the only way we're going to even get to "year zero" is if we have a total overhaul of the UCI, and with it a new restructuring of how doping is combated, and treated by the sport; the officials, and the riders and support staff.

I think this latest indication of an attempted cover-up by McQuaid, plus the fact it's painfully obvious that despite he and the UCI repeatedly telling us that doping has all but been rid of from the sport, it's still quite permeated throughout shows we're not at year zero.

as the OP i agree, i think it needs to come from the rider's and possibly they need to set up a union (that works) to protect themselves from the sport, federations, teams etc like any other union and they can use it to keep the sport 'clean' or cleaner for themselves as i imagine most of them would rather not spend €€€€$$$$s on PEDs anyway.

 

[tubularglue]

TIME TO DECLARE WADA TRUMPS UCI

FOREVER MORE

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

as the OP i agree, i think it needs to come from the rider's and possibly they need to set up a union (that works) to protect themselves from the sport, federations, teams etc like any other union and they can use it to keep the sport 'clean' or cleaner for themselves as i imagine most of them would rather not spend €€€€$$$$s on PEDs anyway.

I got laughed out of another thread suggesting that a ground-swell of riders could effect some change by creating another governing body.

Fortunately we're all living in the era of almost immediate communication and global connectivity. Not a bad idea...

If management's not doing their role, fire them. How much money do we give to these pole-smokers on an anual basis? How much are they doing? Albeit, they are doing some management stuff, but there's a thousand companies that can pull that off.

Who wants to end doping in cycling? I know a lot of riders do. Apparently most UCI licence holders do. The fans would like it gone. Supposedly the posters, for the most part, would like it gone...

Good enough for me! Who can make it happen?

 

[Benotti69]

I got laughed out of another thread suggesting that a ground-swell of riders could effect some change by creating another governing body.

Fortunately we're all living in the era of almost immediate communication and global connectivity. Not a bad idea...

If management's not doing their role, fire them. How much money do we give to these pole-smokers on an anual basis? How much are they doing? Albeit, they are doing some management stuff, but there's a thousand companies that can pull that off.

Who wants to end doping in cycling? I know a lot of riders do. Apparently most UCI licence holders do. The fans would like it gone. Supposedly the posters, for the most part, would like it gone...

Good enough for me! Who can make it happen?

well the riders have the power, they showed that on the 3rd stage at this years TdF, so it is up to the team leader of every team to get together and decide it, then a few ex pros to affiliate with another sports union (if it exists), draw up a charter and let the world know what they want. If its fair they'll have no problems making the event organisers agree, the sponsors would probably go along too as it would be good PR...

or something similar!!!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Unfortunately, for most riders, it still comes down to not wanting to **** off the guys signing the cheques.

Not everyone involved is signed to a seven-figure contract. Alot could still end up back at the shoe factory.

Hence my agreement to vilify the management structure of teams...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

You have to excuse me, but I'm still excited that 'pole-smoker' didn't get censored!

Picked that up from some Canucks...

 

[Oldman]

well the riders have the power, they showed that on the 3rd stage at this years TdF, so it is up to the team leader of every team to get together and decide it, then a few ex pros to affiliate with another sports union (if it exists), draw up a charter and let the world know what they want. If its fair they'll have no problems making the event organisers agree, the sponsors would probably go along too as it would be good PR...

or something similar!!!

Thanks for the backup and the rider's should thank you as well. The more support they get to take charge the sooner they can get on with outing the UCI and DS shakedown artists that hold them hostage. The "rich history" of team management is a major obstacle to change and the big riders need to start the ball rolling. They need two balls to do it, for sure.

 

[Polyarmour]

I thought 2006 was year zero?

Or was it 1999?

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

1/. Cycling is one of the fastest growing sports in the world, media coverage will have to increase.

2/. Are parents even aware of what happens at a competitive level? The intricacies of doping might be discussed here in minutiae but the average punter has no idea all this is going on. Take a look at Lance's Facebook page to see the unqualified adulation he receives from people who don't know and don't care.

3/. For sponsors I think you make the point somewhere else that any publicity is good publicity. If it all goes pear shaped you feign righteous indignation and withdraw while you get the cheapest worldwide exposure you'll ever get.

Cycling will survive. Like Mark Twain said, "rumours of my death are greatly exaggerated"

 

[stephens]

I think people need to realize that sport isn't build on the moral rules that has build society. Sport isn't about being nice and working hard. It's about defeating your opponent by any mean possible.

Cycling will survive as long anybody is following and it seems the last century of doping hasn't scared more away than it has attracted.

It's interesting to hear this perspective here. At the end of the day, what we are talking about here is a sport. Yes, there are many, many people who make their living off of the efforts of the athletes. But we can't allow the concerns of the sponsors and manufacturers and media and the governing bodies to be the real power in the "sport". The "sports" is the riders themselves. And though the money surely appeals to many of them, it ought to be mainly about the sport itself.

There is no reason to play into the hands of the "suits" and do their work for them by consider cheating in cycling as some sort of tragedy on the level of political corruption or financial corruption or violent crime. For the "suits" it may indeed be about fraud and money won or lost. But for us fans, and for the athletes, it's just some guys playing a game and if they cheat, that sucks, but it is not on the level of real life problems.

As a fan, there were many races this season I loved. I don't devote much energy to wondering if any of those guys were "cheating", or if all of them are. All we need is some simple rules that all the riders choose and agree on and enforce themselves (through a neutral organization they control). Then on any given day, if a guy is allowed by that organization to start the race, and clears the after tests, then we have the right to support that guy and hope he wins. Period end of story, with no suspicion.

 

[luckyboy]

For sponsors I think you make the point somewhere else that any publicity is good publicity. If it all goes pear shaped you feign righteous indignation and withdraw while you get the cheapest worldwide exposure you'll ever get.

This is a point (with Festina/Phonak sales going up etc.), but it looks as if its tough for teams to persuade sponsors on board (Bernadeau, Milram..).

Can't really imagine team bosses pitching to potential sponsors talking about riders doping and how they'll get more exposure if they're caught.

Edit: that last bit just made me think of sponsors forcing teams to make a rider test positive in order to get more publicity. Hopefully that never happens

 

[TheDude]

I'm at the point where I think the best they can do is say anything goes. Take whatever you want, just hope your heart doesn't stop while riding uphill in the heat.

 

[yourwelcome]

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

Given the general public doesn't really care as much about doping as they do about spectacle - other than doping stories providing an extra drama element - I'd venture to say business will keep sponsoring for as long as that stays the same and there's high profile racing to be leveraging.

In the greater scheme of things where major companies collude in the killing of dissidents in far away countries, being seen to support a sport where well-paid athletes regularly are found to have doped is almost nothing.

And plenty of parents will keep letting kids go into it thinking there's riches to be had, their offspring would never do the wrong thing, that doping doesn't apparently hurt cyclists any more anyway, and it'd be cool to be mum and dad to a famous athlete.