Todays idiot masters fattie doper

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Oct 25, 2010
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zigmeister said:
Been close to that myself, as the potential victim, but after some nut threatened me during a race after incidental/accidental contact, I had my eyes open after the race and ready for some craziness, along with some backup lurking nearby.

I think the truth lies somewhere in between both stories. Howe acts like he is completely innocent in the entire situation, but comments/statements made by him seem to indicate otherwise as a partial instigator.
Unless someone is seriously injured, the cops will likely see it as mutual combat, even if a significant amount of time passes between the initial slight and the assault itself. If you think the jails are crowded now, just wait and see what it would be like if situations like this one led to instant arrest and jail.

I don't condone what happened to Howe. He was wronged. Be thankful that it was not a case like that of Adam Hodges-Myerson about 10-12 years ago.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Unless someone is seriously injured, the cops will likely see it as mutual combat, even if a significant amount of time passes between the initial slight and the assault itself. If you think the jails are crowded now, just wait and see what it would be like if situations like this one led to instant arrest and jail.

I don't condone what happened to Howe. He was wronged. Be thankful that it was not a case like that of Adam Hodges-Myerson about 10-12 years ago.
Well, there IS always the 2x4 method...:eek:
 
Mar 18, 2009
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What I learned from this, after not visiting Velonews for quite a while, is that I won't be visiting Velonews again for a long time. The site switched to the Facebook social plugin for comments, which means that not only are there fewer comments, but nearly all of them will be by people sticking up for their buddy. It's the wonderful world of Facebook, where no one can say what they really think because they don't want it traced back to them. Everyone be nice. All the scuttlebooty, stories of past incidents, rumor, stabs to the back, and such that make anonymous commenting worthwhile are nearly gone. What fellow pro would stand up and say that Howe is a well known a-hole who likes to bully amateurs then face fallout from the Kenda team?

Is the crash at about ten minutes into the 30 minute video? If so then I cannot see jack other than someone going down a little after a corner.
 
Jun 28, 2009
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I've been watching Jamie Paolinetti's series "Race Day" and although I was entertained by this well done documentary, I have to say the idea of a professional masters team still seems kind of silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_V_TrFj0

I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Zigster said:
I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.
Every new Cat4 thinks he's on a "team" and working for his bro to help him get upgrade points. Yet they never think much of their own chances. Sad, eh?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Once in a national Elite cross in The Netherlands, the kind where a few spectators line the crubs section and else the empty woods, I had this strange encounter with a fellow racer. We were at the absolute back of the race. I was disillusioned myself that I was not contending anything but red lantern. So I was just making my laps, waiting to be lapped, pretty much. Can't call it racing. Now I don't know if I was overtaken by another loser, or I somehow caught up with him. He was like 20 or something. The skinny young looking kind. Small engine, but making up in attitude it seems. For reasons that are still beyond me, he started cutting me off, on long straits. A extreme as possible without taking your hands of the bars. Victomizing me, and I didn't know why. May I cut him off unknowlingly? Hard to sneak up on someone in a desolate cross like that. I think he woke me up and I put on the afterburners and left him in my dust, so to speak. In the end of the race, after being lapped, I got 2 minutes of masterclass cross. Hanging 5m behind the leading group. A whole different sport than I had been faking earlier.
Sometimes people seem to find the argument they were looking for, and you're the target.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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MacRoadie said:
Well, there IS always the 2x4 method...:eek:
even that incident is instructive. Lots of people have wanted to hit BOTH of those guys with a 2x4. Thing is, they settled it after the race (or more accurately Gagg tried to settle it and failed miserably). And yes, even with all that roid rage he at least didn't endanger a whole group of people. He waited until the race was over.

I have little doubt that Howe was acting like a tool. He does that occasionally, as do most crit specialists and sprinters. But there's a HUGE difference between acting like a jacka$$ and criminal behavior/recklessly endangering the lives of others. I wasn't there, so I'm not saying amateur dude acted criminally. The stories I've heard about the incident are from people who aren't exactly objective, so I don't know what to believe. All that said, there were enough people in the race that I think a reasonable version of "truth" will be established.

At this point, one thing we do know is that Howe freely admits to mouthing off, where as amateur dude is clearly lying or mis-remembering how the crash actually happened, since it was obviously on a straight section of road. At this point, I'm willing to give more weight to Howe's side of the story just based on that fact.
 

mastersracer

BANNED
Jun 8, 2010
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Zigster said:
I've been watching Jamie Paolinetti's series "Race Day" and although I was entertained by this well done documentary, I have to say the idea of a professional masters team still seems kind of silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_V_TrFj0

I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
I guess Horner, Voigt, Hincapie and a bunch of other masters racing on protour teams didn't get your memo.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Zigster said:
I've been watching Jamie Paolinetti's series "Race Day" and although I was entertained by this well done documentary, I have to say the idea of a professional masters team still seems kind of silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_V_TrFj0

I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
Who on earth is Jamie Paolinetti? Had to look him up and found nada.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Zigster said:
I've been watching Jamie Paolinetti's series "Race Day" and although I was entertained by this well done documentary, I have to say the idea of a professional masters team still seems kind of silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_V_TrFj0

I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
So glad I no longer race. Bike racing was fun back when you could actually sit in and tell a few jokes during the lulls. Now if a rider were to converse with an enemy "team" combatant, he is a traitor.

Guys, it's just bike racing.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Zigster said:
I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
Not sure if I am missing your point here.

These days I race on a "semi-sponsored" team of mainly masters racers - ie by semi-sponsored, I mean the sponsor pays for most of the kit, everything else like bikes and entries etc is paid for by the riders just like we normally would.

We each have a list of 4 or 5 key races for the year and on those races you are the leader and the team rides for you. In all other races, when you are off your peak and basically "racing to train" you get motivation to ride harder than you would ordinarily, by working as a dom for the leader. Crit season we pretty much race as individuals.

Personally, on the non peak days when I know I would not win the race anyway, I get a lot of satisfaction from a solo effort to catch a break on behalf of someone else, or leading out a sprint - even more so if he actually places.

Its called "fun". :)

< I AM a Masters Fattie and I don't care who knows it>
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Martin318is said:
Personally, on the non peak days when I know I would not win the race anyway, I get a lot of satisfaction from a solo effort to catch a break on behalf of someone else, or leading out a sprint - even more so if he actually places.

Its called "fun". :)

< I AM a Masters Fattie and I don't care who knows it>
That's what I used to do in training crits (closed 2km track). Just, I had no-one to lead out for, or to catch a group for. I just wanted to finish in the bunch, practice on the finale, and killed groups for it that were too weak to stay away from me. I could not jump (freak tall legs, low top speed) so inevitably I would drag along the peloton as I closed such a gaps over a number of laps. I would let a group get away just far enough that I would have to do an immense effort to catch them, and yet usually I could.
Man, people hated me in the peloton. Or maybe it was the black VooDoo socks, MTB shoes, Camelbak and helmet visor? Unfortunately when I swapped from a basic TCR to a Surly singlespeed with cross tubulars, I didn't quite have the legs to hate me for the former reasons. Bullies as they are though, the roadies kept their cool quite a bit.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Zigster said:
I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.
I'm perplexed as to why they'd allow Kayle Leogrande to race for them (see the dana pt GP results)
 
Aug 13, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
I'm perplexed as to why they'd allow Kayle Leogrande to race for them (see the dana pt GP results)
notice, he never appears in their "Reality series" Plenty of shots of the team, none of their doper teammate
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Race Radio said:
notice, he never appears in their "Reality series" Plenty of shots of the team, none of their doper teammate
Nor does he appear on their extensive team website.

Kings of the industrial park.
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Zigster said:
I've been watching Jamie Paolinetti's series "Race Day" and although I was entertained by this well done documentary, I have to say the idea of a professional masters team still seems kind of silly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWU_V_TrFj0

I am especially perplexed not by the motivation to win and just have fun racing, but why any masters rider would sacrifice themselves for a teammate.

I thought this was a baby boom US mentality. Sad to hear Europeans masters are similarly self-delusional.
Martin318is said:
Not sure if I am missing your point here.

These days I race on a "semi-sponsored" team of mainly masters racers - ie by semi-sponsored, I mean the sponsor pays for most of the kit, everything else like bikes and entries etc is paid for by the riders just like we normally would.

We each have a list of 4 or 5 key races for the year and on those races you are the leader and the team rides for you. In all other races, when you are off your peak and basically "racing to train" you get motivation to ride harder than you would ordinarily, by working as a dom for the leader. Crit season we pretty much race as individuals.

Personally, on the non peak days when I know I would not win the race anyway, I get a lot of satisfaction from a solo effort to catch a break on behalf of someone else, or leading out a sprint - even more so if he actually places.

Its called "fun". :)

< I AM a Masters Fattie and I don't care who knows it>
I donno much about US scene, but I can speak for the EU part and especially Italy, where the the "master series" perhaps reach the top.

Having sponsored teams like Martin said is quiet common in here and yes, sometimes they/we do team work; this happened to me exactly this past sunday.
It's not uncommon and if today I help my team mate, tomorrow he'll help me (if there's the chance of course).
It's just bike racing and its fun also to do some team work wherever it happens.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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Martin318is said:
Not sure if I am missing your point here.

These days I race on a "semi-sponsored" team of mainly masters racers - ie by semi-sponsored, I mean the sponsor pays for most of the kit, everything else like bikes and entries etc is paid for by the riders just like we normally would.

We each have a list of 4 or 5 key races for the year and on those races you are the leader and the team rides for you. In all other races, when you are off your peak and basically "racing to train" you get motivation to ride harder than you would ordinarily, by working as a dom for the leader. Crit season we pretty much race as individuals.

Personally, on the non peak days when I know I would not win the race anyway, I get a lot of satisfaction from a solo effort to catch a break on behalf of someone else, or leading out a sprint - even more so if he actually places.

Its called "fun". :)

< I AM a Masters Fattie and I don't care who knows it>
I am not trying to be a smart ****, but dont you think this is where the door gets opened a little for masters riders taking it all a bit seriously? You have some fat bloke that is coming up to his "leadership" race and he wants to make sure he does that little bit better. He has already spent 10k on his bike, and 500 on the bonts to go with his semi sponsored kit. With just a little bit more help he could be a contender....

I am glad I live in the country. To be honest, if I lined up in a race with a bunch of middle aged dudes who were riding for a "leader", I reckon I would cough up my moccachino.....right before making a deal with every other rider in the race that one of the semi sponsored hommies was not going to win this race even if I had to rip myself 3 new ones to make sure of it:D.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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fatsprintking said:
I am not trying to be a smart ****, but dont you think this is where the door gets opened a little for masters riders taking it all a bit seriously? You have some fat bloke that is coming up to his "leadership" race and he wants to make sure he does that little bit better. He has already spent 10k on his bike, and 500 on the bonts to go with his semi sponsored kit. With just a little bit more help he could be a contender...
There are clubs (sorry, "teams") in the NYC metro area that take things so seriously, they've got team bylaws that cover such topics as being caught out on the road wearing anything other then your designated "team kit". Any demonstration of behavior that might indicate a "less than winning attitude" is akin to heresy. Always remember, you've gotta support the team...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fowd29dOyh0

Personally, to see this Monster Media team showing up in SoCal events with former pros and Cat1 riders and then riding the masters events is akin to being a...



Ride your category. If you're upset that you don't win anymore, then go buy a Corvette and pick-up young 19 year old girls at the Mall (to stroke your ego).
 
Jul 15, 2010
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The trouble is in Australia, that you have to have "teams" within clubs. You have to be affiliated with a club, and so your little team becomes a subsection of the club. The big Melbourne clubs have enough riders that this can happen.

In the country you might only have 30-40 riders racing on a given weekend, and so it is all in which is why there are more handicaps. This creates a situation where in my club on a gien weekend you might have Josh Collingwood (former world junior TT champion - Cadel was 3rd), Pat Shaw (Vic cyclist of the year) and Damien Turner (3rd National Champs a couple of years ago) riding against your local up and commers in a race of 30 people. This means that no one in the middle band can really get much of a big head or they get a crushing doese of reality pretty quick. I think in the big clubs and even in the Vets/masters class that you can have a bit of a big fish in a small pond mentality where you thnk you are maybe a little better than you actually are.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Wasn't there, didn't see what happened, don't know either guy, but having read CN's report it sounds to me like Howe is the bigger whiner of the two.
Sounds like a young kid trying to exercise his "right" to the wheel in front of him based on his "standing" who couldn't back it up when "push came to shove".
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Wasn't there, didn't see what happened, don't know either guy, but having read CN's report it sounds to me like Howe is the bigger whiner of the two.
Sounds like a young kid trying to exercise his "right" to the wheel in front of him based on his "standing" who couldn't back it up when "push came to shove".
Running a 200+ pounder off the road then making fun of him when he confronts you about it is sort of like walking into a biker bar and badmouthing Harley Davidson. Don't be surprised by the beat down.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Wasn't there, didn't see what happened, don't know either guy, but having read CN's report it sounds to me like Howe is the bigger whiner of the two.
Sounds like a young kid trying to exercise his "right" to the wheel in front of him based on his "standing" who couldn't back it up when "push came to shove".
Once, Andy Paulin literaly knocked me off the wheel of his 10-speed-Drive teammate (Bostick?) in a pud, early-season race in SoCal. I went into the dirt and flatted a $65 (n 1986 dollars) Vittoria Corsa CX. I was REALLY ****ed.

I can understand the anger of the slighted masters fattie. The pros feel literally entitled to the space they wish to occupy, and they'll do really unethical things in order to assert their claim to that space. I don't care if you're getting paid (and its your day-job) to do it. You don't have the right to shove us weekenders around whenever you like. It's just sport.

Eventually, someone is going to 2x4 you and then you'll be a crybaby whiner. The masters fattie will have to take his consequences, but I'll secretly chuckle as the whiney pro continues to whine.
 
Aug 3, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Once, Andy Paulin literaly knocked me off the wheel of his 10-speed-Drive teammate (Bostick?) in a pud, early-season race in SoCal. I went into the dirt and flatted a $65 (n 1986 dollars) Vittoria Corsa CX. I was REALLY ****ed.

I can understand the anger of the slighted masters fattie. The pros feel literally entitled to the space they wish to occupy, and they'll do really unethical things in order to assert their claim to that space. I don't care if you're getting paid (and its your day-job) to do it. You don't have the right to shove us weekenders around whenever you like. It's just sport.

Eventually, someone is going to 2x4 you and then you'll be a crybaby whiner. The masters fattie will have to take his consequences, but I'll secretly chuckle as the whiney pro continues to whine.
It is kinda funny when you get some 20-something $12K dreamer trying to go "pro" on you, not realizing that a few of us have been around the block a few times, and were racing at his level before he was even born (or when he was still peddaling his Big Wheel in the driveway).

We may not be as thin or as fast as we once were, but we still know how to ride a bike.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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MacRoadie said:
It is kinda funny when you get some 20-something $12K dreamer trying to go "pro" on you, not realizing that a few of us have been around the block a few times, and were racing at his level before he was even born (or when he was still peddaling his Big Wheel in the driveway).

We may not be as thin or as fast as we once were, but we still know how to ride a bike.
I don't enjoy being a practice dummy for a guy's aggressiveness in my local-yocal races. If he wants to do that kind of stuff to a rider in his rival's leadout train in a race that actually MATTERS, then fine. He and the rival can have all the after-race discussion they want. But to literally take my body and shove it out of the way? Eventually, you'll run into a 2x4. If not by me, then by someone else.
 

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