Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[hazaran]

Yeah, that's kinda what happens when you've been riding threshold for an hour every day for the past two weeks.. you can't "push through" your top end anymore.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

I mean, any uphill attempt is obviously going nowhere. He could try something on one of the descents, but Yates obviously has the stronger team and better climbing legs so he'd probably get brought back. We'll see what happens.

If this were Contador, I'd definitely watch what was happening on the way to Molina di Ledro, but we'll see. Or we won't, they're going through the tunnel.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

I mean, any uphill attempt is obviously going nowhere. He could try something on one of the descents, but Yates obviously has the stronger team and better climbing legs so he'd probably get brought back. We'll see what happens.

If this were Contador, I'd definitely watch what was happening on the way to Molina di Ledro, but we'll see. Or we won't, they're going through the tunnel.

Yeah, there is definitely potential for an ambush type move on one of the stages. And Dumoulin's team is reasonably strong this year - enough to cause some problems if Mitchelton aren't paying attention the whole time.

I think he might just be content to consolidate 2nd place though and hope Yates self-implodes somehow.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

There is every chance that Yates does more attacking the way the race has gone so far. Froome has to attack of course which won't help Dumoulin, Pozzo and Pinot if Yates can follow Froome.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Dumoulin is very disappointed with his ITT. Started out conservatively as he usually does in long ITTs and then couldn't push through like he normally likes to do.

His goal was either to get pink or win the ITT. He called it an okay ITT, but not one of his better ones.

I think that’s just a normal reaction from TD. As you say, he had 2 goals, it’s perfectly reasonable to be disappointed that he missed both. But he lost out to excellent performances by his opponents.

 

[Climbing]

It seems more likely to me that he ships more time in the mountains than to try and attack.
Though Pratonevoso should suit him, but the next two stages don’t at all.
That said I suspect many riders will be conservative, so who knows.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin is very disappointed with his ITT. Started out conservatively as he usually does in long ITTs and then couldn't push through like he normally likes to do.

His goal was either to get pink or win the ITT. He called it an okay ITT, but not one of his better ones.

I think that’s just a normal reaction from TD. As you say, he had 2 goals, it’s perfectly reasonable to be disappointed that he missed both. But he lost out to excellent performances by his opponents.

Wouldn't really say that Yates' performance was excellent, rather on par given his shape this Giro.

 

[Salvarani]

I think Saturday's climb up the Zonc and Sunday's crazy chase behind Yates may have still been in Tom's legs for the ITT, even after the rest day. True, the other GC guys chasing Yates were in the same boat, but think how deep Dumoulin had to go on Saturday to limit his losses, and then again on Sunday to get back to the small pack chasing Yates. And he still put time into those guys, and Yates, . . . and Froome today. Maybe not as much as he wanted, but when you consider where he's placed right now in the Giro, he's going about as well as he could have expected. (He could not have expected Yates to be so far beyond everyone else's level.)

I said this too. He think he has ridden this so far as good as he possibly could have. If not for Yates he would have had comfortable lead to defend. No one could have predicted Yates would be this strong and credit to him.

Tom need to attack or just simply hope that Yates will be dropped on a stage at some point, and he will be strong enough to take advantage of that.

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

It seems more likely to me that he ships more time in the mountains than to try and attack.
Though Pratonevoso should suit him, but the next two stages don’t at all.
That said I suspect many riders will be conservative, so who knows.

Probably.

Maybe he can attack at an unexpected moment. Try with the others to isolate Yates. There is things he could do. His biggest hope just might be that Yates could crack on one of the stages and loose big, while he can follow the others. Even though that does not seem likely atm, but who knows.

 

[Red Rick]

Pratonevoso is testing ground for whatever plans you may have on the Colle delle Finestre

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Maybe he can attack at an unexpected moment. Try with the others to isolate Yates. There is things he could do. His biggest hope just might be that Yates could crack on one of the stages and loose big, while he can follow the others. Even though that does not seem likely atm, but who knows.

He should at least try to apply some pressure. Otherwise Yates might succeed in getting away with a poor day.
I'm guessing Lopez will be the most attacking rider in the final mountain stages (especially as Pinot and Pozzo may be vulnerable). Maybe Dumoulin can make use of that. Froome is the big unknown.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

I mean, any uphill attempt is obviously going nowhere. He could try something on one of the descents, but Yates obviously has the stronger team and better climbing legs so he'd probably get brought back. We'll see what happens.

If this were Contador, I'd definitely watch what was happening on the way to Molina di Ledro, but we'll see. Or we won't, they're going through the tunnel.

I doubt he descends better than Yates...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

I mean, any uphill attempt is obviously going nowhere. He could try something on one of the descents, but Yates obviously has the stronger team and better climbing legs so he'd probably get brought back. We'll see what happens.

If this were Contador, I'd definitely watch what was happening on the way to Molina di Ledro, but we'll see. Or we won't, they're going through the tunnel.

I doubt he descends better than Yates...

You just have to catch him off guard

 

[Tonton]

Good discussion. For me, the bottom-line is: Yates has to have an off day for Dumoulin to get a minute back. The mono climb won't allow significant time gaps, actually could see Yates gain a few seconds. Finestre could make teams irrelevant due to the dirt and difficulty. To me, it's the place for a move. If nothing else, the doms won't be able to help, and at this point, confusion is good. Get a gap on Yates, have him chase downhill and on the first ramps of the final climb. Let him get ripe, deplete his reserves. I don't think that the other GC contenders would help him. Why would they?

 

[gerundium]

all the way back in the game now

 

[LaFlorecita]

Big Tam _O_
Sets things up nicely for the next two stages

 

[Big Doopie]

The truth is this race should not even be close.

GTs are supposed to reward the best all-rounder and not the best climber. The recent ridiculous GTs that so diminish ITTs make it so that tiny pure climbers can now compete for the overall. Dumo is -- by far - the best all-rounder. And -- horror, horror -- froome is next best.

There is a reason fuente never won the tour, bahamontes only once and van impe only once. at least van impe could also TT pretty well and -- not surprisingly -- won only when they had 4-5 MTFs...

 

[yaco]

I have my fears for Dumoulin in tomorrow's stage - Past history shows he will struggle on one of the multi-mountain stages.

 

[Red Rick]

Just rewatched the final 2km. The attack from Dumoulin was a good 25s at full speed. Almost remeniscent of the Contador/Rasmussen battle on the Peyresourde and the Froome/Contador battle in the Dauphine in 2014.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re:

Just rewatched the final 2km. The attack from Dumoulin was a good 25 at full speed. Almost remeniscent of the Contador/Rasmussen battle on the Peyresourde and the Froome/Contador battle in the Dauphine in 2014.

Yes, that was a commendable attack. If he wins the overall, give his performance thus far and the requisite performance during the next two stages, he will have earned it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

So will we see Dumoulin attacking, trying to mix it up in the last week to trouble Yates? The terrain and stage design is there for a weaker climber to make like difficult for a stronger one.

Or will he just do what he always does - passively ride at tempo and hope Yates somehow fades?

I mean, any uphill attempt is obviously going nowhere. He could try something on one of the descents, but Yates obviously has the stronger team and better climbing legs so he'd probably get brought back. We'll see what happens.

If this were Contador, I'd definitely watch what was happening on the way to Molina di Ledro, but we'll see. Or we won't, they're going through the tunnel.

I doubt he descends better than Yates...

Is Yates that good downhill? Honest question, i really don't know. Usually good TT'ers are good descenders. Also the extra weight and longer stretches should be in favor of the bigger engine. But again, that's just generally speaking.

 

[Derry]

Last year in the Stelvio stage he did a very good descent. The gap with Nibali remained the same, but on most other riders he descreased his disadvantage.

 

[Salvarani]

Yesterday should provide confidence and motivation to dig deep, when he seen Yates show weakness.

This far from over. All comes down if he will have the legs though.

 

[DFA123]

Gutsy ride today. He obviously doesn't have the quality to live with Froome in that kind of form, but did a brave job of limiting his losses. And, is essentially in the same position he was at the start of the day. Will be good to see what he tries tomorrow - everyone is going to be so much on the limit after today that this race is still open.

 

[Red Rick]

What a fight.

Nothing he could do here.

Obviously he'll attack tomorrow, but it won't matter ***