Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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By the final week, agreed, he wasn't close enough, but as pointed out here, he sacrificed his own chances on the Peyresourde stage to take a pull that ultimately achieved little; he didn't crack anyone, but gave up the leverage the team had of 2 riders positioned high up on GC. It wasn't his job to crack himself, it was the job of other teams to crack him. No wonder his DS was so mad.

Again, my analogies above aren't perfect (analogies never are), but are more intended as case studies from which lessons could/should be learned. And it appears that not all the lessons were learned.
In general I agree though, the two pronged attack or having two riders high on GC is an advantage, one usually has to end up sacrificing for the other. if Sky rode more conservatively they might have ended up with three riders on the podium in some of the previous Tours instead of two but even two is a bonus. Where it doesn't work is in a race like the 2011 Tour where the Schlecks seem more concerned about finishing on the podium together than cracking Evans. When they woke up and Andy went long range on stage 18 it was all too late. Evans was just waiting to pounce in the TT which he did. The big mistake was turning the race into a match race with Contador and disregarding Evans completely until too late. Evans basically sat in the top four for the entire race until the TT never far off on time. Not sure what the Schlecks and their DS were thinking. They really messed up their tactics that year............but the brothers both got on the podium ! Contador had already ridden the Giro and Evans in the form he was in that season was always going to be more of a danger to Andy than Contador. It was a total misreading of the race by his team.
 
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I'm glad to see Tom back racing after all the painful ordeals he went through during his transition to Jumbo. It was clear he wasn't going to contest the GC at all, given how "flat" he performed in the races prior to Le Tour, and yet he managed to land a top ten after almost a 9 month break from racing just derailed next by the lockdown....

So what's next for him?
 
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I'm glad to see Tom back racing after all the painful ordeals he went through during his transition to Jumbo. It was clear he wasn't going to contest the GC at all, given how "flat" he performed in the races prior to Le Tour, and yet he managed to land a top ten after almost a 9 month break from racing just derailed next by the lockdown....

So what's next for him?
Worlds ITT > Worlds RR > Amstel > Vuelta
 

Dumoulin says he'd expected to be more tired after the Tour. Says he felt that way at the end of the Tour as well and didn't want to say it only to have to cancel later.

Says it's super hard to beat Ganna, the route is bad for him, and that by riding the ITT he's putting himself at a real disadvantage for the road race.
 
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Sorry, but I don't recall a single year in which Sky had 3 guys on a high enough level to finish with 3 riders on the podium. Do you disagree with that and are able to provide some arguments or did you make that statement up?
The only year I can think of where that was a possibility would be 2018 with G, Froome and Bernal. And they needed Bernal to work on a few stages otherwise, for example, Kruiswijk would have won the Tour on Alpe d'Huez.
 
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The only year I can think of where that was a possibility would be 2018 with G, Froome and Bernal. And they needed Bernal to work on a few stages otherwise, for example, Kruiswijk would have won the Tour on Alpe d'Huez.
Nah Kruijswijk was crawling on the Alpe and Movistar closed most of the gap in the valley.

Bernal wasn't that good yet at that point.
 
Nah Kruijswijk was crawling on the Alpe and Movistar closed most of the gap in the valley.

Bernal wasn't that good yet at that point.
That worked out well for them!
My memory was Sky doing most of the work, but especially Bernal on the Alpe. The couple of highlight videos I've found show main group action from the foot of the Alpe on, so I'll yield to the certitude of your memory.
 

Dumoulin says he'd expected to be more tired after the Tour. Says he felt that way at the end of the Tour as well and didn't want to say it only to have to cancel later.

Says it's super hard to beat Ganna, the route is bad for him, and that by riding the ITT he's putting himself at a real disadvantage for the road race.
You're putting an awful negative spin on it with that translation :D

He's actually quite happy he's feeling not so tired. And while the course is not perfect for him he still feels he's able to content for podium, if he puts out the same numbers as last week.

He also expects the worlds to be a long hard battle because of the weather.
And finally he closes off by saying he's not doing altitude camp for the Vuelta, and in his experience that means it's pretty hard to go for the GC without altitude camp.

Could mean he just goes for stages then if GC doenst work
 
You're putting an awful negative spin on it with that translation :D

He's actually quite happy he's feeling not so tired. And while the course is not perfect for him he still feels he's able to content for podium, if he puts out the same numbers as last week.

He also expects the worlds to be a long hard battle because of the weather.
And finally he closes off by saying he's not doing altitude camp for the Vuelta, and in his experience that means it's pretty hard to go for the GC without altitude camp.

Could mean he just goes for stages then if GC doenst work
Didn't even mean to sound negative lol.
 
The only year I can think of where that was a possibility would be 2018 with G, Froome and Bernal. And they needed Bernal to work on a few stages otherwise, for example, Kruiswijk would have won the Tour on Alpe d'Huez.
There was in form Dumoulin in that race and there was a long ITT. Bernal would not have finished ahead of Dumoulin had the race been raced conservatively. I dare to say he was probably not even good enough to finish on the podium under any circumstances at that point.
 
The only year I can think of where that was a possibility would be 2018 with G, Froome and Bernal. And they needed Bernal to work on a few stages otherwise, for example, Kruiswijk would have won the Tour on Alpe d'Huez.
I think the only team that had a legitimate shot of accomplishing this was Astana in 2009. They could have even had 4 in the top 10 with Leipheimer.
 
Andy Schleck was way too good lol. Astana couldn't have gotten 1-2 in that race let alone 1-2-3.
Very true but that was the best chance for a team to accomplish it in my opinion for the riders they had. They had 4 riders who finished on the podium and 2 riders who finished in the top 10 before. Not that Popo or Zubeldia could have gotten closed to the 3rd man on the podium. Maybe with just Contador, Leipheimer, and Klöden it could have been easier to accomplish. All I know is on paper that squad was stacked, a dysfunctional stack. Replaying 2009 100 times in order to see if they get 1-3, I think they get like 10% chance to accomplish it. It would have been JB's wet dream to get 1-4 with maybe Zubeldia and Popo in the top 15 that year. The clinic might have exploded if that happened.

But in the 2009 TdF video game I did manage 1-5 with Contador, Leipheimer, and Klöden interchanging 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, Armstrong 4th, and Zubeldia 5th.
 
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Going a bit off topic, but if we are talking about 3 really strong riders through the race, CSC 2008 could make a legit case. Before the final TT they were 1st and 2nd and if memory serves me well, Andy was amongst the strongest in the 3rd week.
 
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So, with Dumo and Roglic going to the Vuelta things will be interesting in JV.
Yeah, surprised they’re sending both.

Dumoulin’s comments about not having time to do a high altitude camp are interesting, but realistically, if he can’t, what other GC contender, who wasn’t at the Tour, and who won’t be going to Worlds, will have time to do one? And whoever that is, will they be strong enough to beat even a non-altitude camp Dumoulin?


Is Adam Yates doing the Vuelta?
 
Yeah, surprised they’re sending both.

Dumoulin’s comments about not having time to do a high altitude camp are interesting, but realistically, if he can’t, what other GC contender, who wasn’t at the Tour, and who won’t be going to Worlds, will have time to do one? And whoever that is, will they be strong enough to beat even a non-altitude camp Dumoulin?


Is Adam Yates doing the Vuelta?
Probably.
 
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Big Tom was a good teammate again today at LBL, working for Primoz. Not every grand tour GC contender makes a great support rider, but Dumoulin has shown that he can do that when it matters. Chapeau.
 
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