Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

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Really disappointing to hear but not overly surprising. I became a big fan in 2016 - 2018, and in 2018 it seemed like he was the just a moment from beginning his rein as the indisputable king of GC riders. That 2/2 Giro/Tour combo was legendary and his a lack of a victory that year, to me, undersells his performance. Probably could have beaten Froome with better tactics, probably could have beaten GT if he hadn't ridden the Giro.

But it's been clear that he's had issues for a couple of years. Seems like constant dissatisfaction. Not condemning him, by any means. But when you compare his attitude and previous comments to what you see from Froome or previously Contador or Lance, etc., and it's just a different headspace. Would love to see him come back, but I think that seemingly insignificant fall in 2019 was the beginning of the end for him, and this looks like the end.

Didn't end up the multiple-Tour champ I thought he would, but there's a ton of luck involved, and he has a helluva set of palmares to be proud of. Still a fan, no matter what he decides.
 
Dumoulin could still have the numbers but he does not have the hunger

We all know that the multiple champions who win several times,etc have that extra factor -
desire

Froome, Contador, Nibali etc.....all wanted to win no matter what and set backs just propel them forward .I also think if you come from a middle class background you never really have the hunger

Roglic and Carapaz have it
 
Dumoulin could still have the numbers but he does not have the hunger

We all know that the multiple champions who win several times,etc have that extra factor -
desire

Froome, Contador, Nibali etc.....all wanted to win no matter what and set backs just propel them forward .I also think if you come from a middle class background you never really have the hunger

Roglic and Carapaz have it
That's an interesting angle I've not really seen this suggested before. Could have some truth, but in Tom's case I don't think that is the issue unless coming from a middle class background makes one more susceptible to depression.
 
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Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
 
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Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
Don't think it's a class issue vs depression really especially when talking about people who already 'made' it. I would say cycling, more than most other sports, requrie a level of craziness in the first place, and the level of sacrifices needed to be made are probably higher in other sports.
 
Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
I think in general most are working class, at least that's how it is with the countries I know more about, Italy and Denmark, most cyclists I have read or heard about seem to be from a similar kind of solid environment with parents with good income.
 
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Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
it was traditionally a working class and peasant/ small farmer sport in Europe. That has changed to some extent and may never have been true in parts of Europe which weren’t part of the traditional cycling core. to the extent that this has changed it is largely down to the changing demographics of (non racing) cycling to get around, which has been gentrified.

i would guess that most pros are still from working class backgrounds, but a larger proportion aren’t than used to be.
 
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Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
I think Spain is a combination of both middle class and working poor. In the US you're likely going to be middle to upper middle class and live in very specific parts of the country.
 
Froome, Contador, Nibali etc.....all wanted to win no matter what and set backs just propel them forward .I also think if you come from a middle class background you never really have the hunger

Froome's middle class. He went to private school. His brothers went to Rugby School in the UK. He studied economic at university. Admittedly his parents had financial problems when he was young, but that's different than class.

In 2017 when Dumoulin won the Giro he and three of the top four in the Tour went to University (only Bardet graduated). Of course working class people go to university, but it's a very different demographic than days gone by.
 
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Froome's middle class. He went to private school. His brothers went to Rugby School in the UK. He studied economic at university. Admittedly his parents had financial problems when he was young, but that's different than class.

In 2017 when Dumoulin won the Giro he and three of the top four in the Tour went to University (only Bardet graduated). Of course working class people go to university, but it's a very different demographis than days gone by.
Yeah IMO cycling can be quite expensive and I guess with modern tech it's probably ballooned in cost quite a lot more than most other sports.
 
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Yeah IMO cycling can be quite expensive and I guess with modern tech it's probably ballooned in cost quite a lot more than most other sports.

Also the pay is much better. Back in the day only the stars were getting rich. The others were barely making more than there could labouring. But now a fairly ordinary rider can bring in a six figure salary so it's now a much more attractive career for someone from a comfortable background.
 
Well, if it is much better, it's still pretty bad. More than half of the Belgian pro peloton makes less than €4.000 before taxes. When they retire they have to start all over again. Most of them probably do not have a degree. And there's always the risk of having your carreer shortened by external factors, injuries, cardiac abnormalities,...

But I guess it also depends on what you mean by 'fairly ordinary rider'.
 
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Well, if it is much better, it's still pretty bad. More than half of the Belgian pro peloton makes less than €4.000 before taxes. When they retire they have to start all over again. Most of them probably do not have a degree. And there's always the risk of having your carreer shortened by external factors, injuries, cardiac abnormalities,...

But I guess it also depends on what you mean by 'fairly ordinary rider'.
I guess this is the conti and pro conti level?

All in all, there's big sports that are worse off in terms of how good you need to be to make ends meet.
 
I guess this is the conti and pro conti level?

All in all, there's big sports that are worse off in terms of how good you need to be to make ends meet.
I’m pretty sure it basically means PCT riders. There are 40+ Belgian PCT riders, all part of the pro peloton but few of them on big salaries. Belgian WT riders are a different matter.
 
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Sep 5, 2020
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Don't most cyclist in Europe come from middle class? Are they mostly low income?
I thought in Europe would be different to, Colombia for example. I can understand riders from Slovenia, but what about France, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany, Belgium and Netherlands?
I think this is a false dichotomy. Class is generally not related to the GDP of a nation but rather placement within that environment. Also the GDPs of EU countries including Slovenia are not really that significantly different.
 
it was traditionally a working class and peasant/ small farmer sport in Europe. That has changed to some extent and may never have been true in parts of Europe which weren’t part of the traditional cycling core. to the extent that this has changed it is largely down to the changing demographics of (non racing) cycling to get around, which has been gentrified.

i would guess that most pros are still from working class backgrounds, but a larger proportion aren’t than used to be.
It's probably still true for the riders from traditional cycling countries like Belgium, Italy etc where you can make an ok living for a 24 year old on the local crit circuit while living in your parents' basement. Less true for an American or Australian who can't afford to up sticks and move to Europe and try and survive said crit circuit.
 
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That's an interesting angle I've not really seen this suggested before. Could have some truth, but in Tom's case I don't think that is the issue unless coming from a middle class background makes one more susceptible to depression.
Valverde is from a working poor family and he's admitted to suffering from depression during the 2012 season and finally seeking professional help. He talked about this after winning the worlds. The way he describes it sounded like it was close to paralyzing depression.

I hope Tom's able to get better and recover from this so he can be happy in his life.
 

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