- Aug 18, 2010
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Re:
At this point, regardless of who anyone started out cheering for, you would have to be Colombian or Italian or in some other way extremely biased in favour of Quintana or Nibali not to hope for the resurrection of Tom "leaves it all on the road" Dumoulin.
jsem94 said:
At this point, regardless of who anyone started out cheering for, you would have to be Colombian or Italian or in some other way extremely biased in favour of Quintana or Nibali not to hope for the resurrection of Tom "leaves it all on the road" Dumoulin.
- May 17, 2013
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Re: Re:
Is that you sniper?
Classy Dumoulin. And still seating on the throne (no pun intended ). He lost less time than most predicted. Quintana needs two more minutes, and it won't be easy. Major Tom can win this.
lenric said:ice&fire said:
Greg Lemond is the man.
Is that you sniper?
Classy Dumoulin. And still seating on the throne (no pun intended
). He lost less time than most predicted. Quintana needs two more minutes, and it won't be easy. Major Tom can win this.- Aug 18, 2010
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Re: Re:
Are you laughing at the poo joke or baffled that I think this sort of misfortune acts as a big driver of sympathy among the more or less neutral?
Valv.Piti said:
Are you laughing at the poo joke or baffled that I think this sort of misfortune acts as a big driver of sympathy among the more or less neutral?
- May 11, 2013
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Dumoulin works hard, has talent, "grinta", class and sense of humour. He will win a Grand Tour someday.
- Aug 18, 2010
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Re:
If anything I'm worried that he might lack enough of the requisite streak of being a mean unreasonable bastard that so many champions possess.
Rollthedice said:
If anything I'm worried that he might lack enough of the requisite streak of being a mean unreasonable bastard that so many champions possess.
- May 11, 2013
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- Aug 3, 2015
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Re: Re:
Really, Dumoulin is a very good rider to have in the peloton for the spectators. It opens up for creating new routes more focused on TT-mileage and its always welcome to see a rouleur doing well in GTs which at this point are dominated by climbers. But you don't have to be extremely biased, extremist, fanatic or anything like that to cheer for someone else. Thats how you might feel, but that doesn't really justify a bold statement like that.
Im not baffled, just think that's a really odd statement to make. You don't have to be some kind of fanatic to cheer for other riders than Dumoulin or anything like that which was what you basically implied. What the others did was not wrong, at all. Sure, Dumoulin fighted back heroically, but that doesn't mean you necessarily should cheer for him unless your nationality isn't Italian, Colombian or whatever..Zinoviev Letter said:
Really, Dumoulin is a very good rider to have in the peloton for the spectators. It opens up for creating new routes more focused on TT-mileage and its always welcome to see a rouleur doing well in GTs which at this point are dominated by climbers. But you don't have to be extremely biased, extremist, fanatic or anything like that to cheer for someone else. Thats how you might feel, but that doesn't really justify a bold statement like that.
- Aug 18, 2010
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Re: Re:
You are confusing a descriptive statement with some kind of moral injunction.
When a rider has some catastrophic misfortune that tends to encourage sympathy. When that misfortune seems likely to take away a first really big success that tends to encourage more sympathy. When a rider battles on, fighting on the road to overcome that catastrophe it encourages it more. And when the rider does all of that while refusing to complain about the, let's just say, ethically controversial behaviour of his opponents, more again.
Most of us have favourite riders, whether due to national bias or preferences for one style over another or whatever. But a lot of the time those riders aren't directly involved at the sharp end of a race. We will still in those circumstances usually deviate from strict neutrality, preferring one ride to the other, but we don't have a strong emotional investment in their success. In my view, Dumoulin's travails today are overwhelmingly likely to make him the sentimental favourite for a large majority of those who were either completely neutral or vaguely preferred someone else without being particularly strongly attached. That's how empathy tends to work.
It won't mean that some Italian punter who watches one race a year will suddenly prefer him to Nibali. Nor will it mean that people who have some ongoing emotional attachment to one of the other protagonists will jump ship. And there will be some unpredictable reactions, like somebody randomly deciding that they don't like Dumoulin because his head vaguely reminds of them of Billy Zane or something similarly idiosyncratic. But in terms of the sympathies of the neutral in the broadest sense? I'd bet a significant amount of money that vastly more of them now want him to win than gave a toss about him a week ago.
Thinking all of that does not mean declaring that partisans of Nibali or Quintana or anyone else must be "fanatics" or foaming at the mouth national chauvinists. It just involves understanding how anyone temporarily becomes a "neutral's favourite".
I vaguely like most of the main protagonists in this race. That includes Dumoulin, but I wouldn't have put him in a pre-race list of the three guys I'd most like to see win. After today, I certainly hope he wins (although I don't think he will). That doesn't make some kind of iconoclastic outlier. It's exactly the kind of response anyone who thinks about it should expect from the broadly unaffiliated. Which does not mean that it is some kind of ethical requirement.
Valv.Piti said:Im not baffled, just think that's a really odd statement to make. You don't have to be some kind of fanatic to cheer for other riders than Dumoulin or anything like that which was what you basically implied. What the others did was not wrong, at all. Sure, Dumoulin fighted back heroically, but that doesn't mean you necessarily should cheer for him unless your nationality isn't Italian, Colombian or whatever..Zinoviev Letter said:
Really, Dumoulin is a very good rider to have in the peloton for the spectators. It opens up for creating new routes more focused on TT-mileage and its always welcome to see a rouleur doing well in GTs which at this point are dominated by climbers. But you don't have to be extremely biased, extremist, fanatic or anything like that to cheer for someone else. Thats how you might feel, but that doesn't really justify a bold statement like that.
You are confusing a descriptive statement with some kind of moral injunction.
When a rider has some catastrophic misfortune that tends to encourage sympathy. When that misfortune seems likely to take away a first really big success that tends to encourage more sympathy. When a rider battles on, fighting on the road to overcome that catastrophe it encourages it more. And when the rider does all of that while refusing to complain about the, let's just say, ethically controversial behaviour of his opponents, more again.
Most of us have favourite riders, whether due to national bias or preferences for one style over another or whatever. But a lot of the time those riders aren't directly involved at the sharp end of a race. We will still in those circumstances usually deviate from strict neutrality, preferring one ride to the other, but we don't have a strong emotional investment in their success. In my view, Dumoulin's travails today are overwhelmingly likely to make him the sentimental favourite for a large majority of those who were either completely neutral or vaguely preferred someone else without being particularly strongly attached. That's how empathy tends to work.
It won't mean that some Italian punter who watches one race a year will suddenly prefer him to Nibali. Nor will it mean that people who have some ongoing emotional attachment to one of the other protagonists will jump ship. And there will be some unpredictable reactions, like somebody randomly deciding that they don't like Dumoulin because his head vaguely reminds of them of Billy Zane or something similarly idiosyncratic. But in terms of the sympathies of the neutral in the broadest sense? I'd bet a significant amount of money that vastly more of them now want him to win than gave a toss about him a week ago.
Thinking all of that does not mean declaring that partisans of Nibali or Quintana or anyone else must be "fanatics" or foaming at the mouth national chauvinists. It just involves understanding how anyone temporarily becomes a "neutral's favourite".
I vaguely like most of the main protagonists in this race. That includes Dumoulin, but I wouldn't have put him in a pre-race list of the three guys I'd most like to see win. After today, I certainly hope he wins (although I don't think he will). That doesn't make some kind of iconoclastic outlier. It's exactly the kind of response anyone who thinks about it should expect from the broadly unaffiliated. Which does not mean that it is some kind of ethical requirement.
- May 19, 2014
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Re: Re:
Is sniper a fan of Lemond? Don't quite know his preferences.
I'm not a fan of Lemond also (though not a hater. Simply had not the chance of seeing him riding), but not stopping to take a ***, as in, don't caring about other people opinions and only seeing the win... it takes balls and a winner mentality. I admire that mentality.
Tonton said:lenric said:ice&fire said:
Greg Lemond is the man.
Is that you sniper?
Classy Dumoulin. And still seating on the throne (no pun intended
Is sniper a fan of Lemond? Don't quite know his preferences.
I'm not a fan of Lemond also (though not a hater. Simply had not the chance of seeing him riding), but not stopping to take a ***, as in, don't caring about other people opinions and only seeing the win... it takes balls and a winner mentality. I admire that mentality.
- Aug 5, 2009
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The next evolution in lycra wear. Astronaut Knicks where you have a compartment for every occasion. No need to stop and if the podium girl wrinkles her nose just smile and say "real men wear Astronauts "
- Apr 30, 2011
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Re: Re:
One thing is sure; you need some unusual kinks for Nairo to wet your pants. On the other hand, Major Tom has plenty of good old fashioned sex appeal.Valv.Piti said:Im not baffled, just think that's a really odd statement to make. You don't have to be some kind of fanatic to cheer for other riders than Dumoulin or anything like that which was what you basically implied. What the others did was not wrong, at all. Sure, Dumoulin fighted back heroically, but that doesn't mean you necessarily should cheer for him unless your nationality isn't Italian, Colombian or whatever..Zinoviev Letter said:
Really, Dumoulin is a very good rider to have in the peloton for the spectators. It opens up for creating new routes more focused on TT-mileage and its always welcome to see a rouleur doing well in GTs which at this point are dominated by climbers. But you don't have to be extremely biased, extremist, fanatic or anything like that to cheer for someone else. Thats how you might feel, but that doesn't really justify a bold statement like that.
- Aug 5, 2009
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The big stage for Dumoulin. If he survives this one relatively unscathed then his chances for the overall increase. With the TT in mind Nibali is the one he can't afford to drop much time to. With Quintana the parameters are more clear cut. It might have been better for the team if he had lost the pink to Quintana by a few seconds but only if he doesn't leak substantial time on the next mountain stages.
- May 9, 2010
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Dumoulin: Winner of the Giro '17 in such a dominant fashion that he had time to go take a dump while they were climbing Stelvio. This must be the ultimate humiliation.
- May 15, 2011
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- Jul 12, 2012
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- Jul 25, 2012
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