Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Red Rick]

1 week races are overrated for GT riders. The factoren that het wins the most classics oriented one of the WT stage races is still impressive though.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

1 week races are overrated for GT riders. The factoren that het wins the most classics oriented one of the WT stage races is still impressive though.

He was 2nd three years ago in this race, it's not a surprise that he won it. What's impressive though is the fact that he, a TT specialist and potentially good classic rider, became a GT winner and climber par excellance!

 

[Red Rick]

Just saw an interview with Dumoulin where he said that he weighted less than in the Giro, and that it's usually easier for him to be light during the summer than in the spring.

 

[El Pistolero]

If he wins the WC TT he might have a chance to win the Vélo d'Or. It will be between him, Van Avermaet and Froome I reckon.

Still strange that he's skipping the Vuelta though.

 

[Bardamu]

I see Kwiatkowski as a main contender for both the Worlds as Lombardia, so he might win it as well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I see Kwiatkowski as a main contender for both the Worlds as Lombardia, so he might win it as well.

True.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Plus for Dumoulin the WT ranking isn't a specific goal. And the way he works towards goals it isn't in his system to suddenly change his program to add more races. So no way he will challenge.

Van Avermaet will already pick up points in Hamburg anyway.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Plus for Dumoulin the WT ranking isn't a specific goal. And the way he works towards goals it isn't in his system to suddenly change his program to add more races. So no way he will challenge.

Van Avermaet will already pick up points in Hamburg anyway.

I was talking about the Vélo d'Or, not the WT ranking, I don't really care for that one.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Just saw an interview with Dumoulin where he said that he weighted less than in the Giro, and that it's usually easier for him to be light during the summer than in the spring.

So basically he's the favorite for the Tour next year.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Just saw an interview with Dumoulin where he said that he weighted less than in the Giro, and that it's usually easier for him to be light during the summer than in the spring.

So basically he's the favorite for the Tour next year.

In the same way that Richie was this year.

Though, of course, TD has the potential to be a more complete GC rider than any we've seen since Indurain (or, perhaps, Chris Froome).

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

Just saw an interview with Dumoulin where he said that he weighted less than in the Giro, and that it's usually easier for him to be light during the summer than in the spring.

So basically he's the favorite for the Tour next year.

In the same way that Richie was this year.

Though, of course, TD has the potential to be a more complete GC rider than any we've seen since Indurain (or, perhaps, Chris Froome).

Nibali is probably the most complete.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Just saw an interview with Dumoulin where he said that he weighted less than in the Giro, and that it's usually easier for him to be light during the summer than in the spring.

So basically he's the favorite for the Tour next year.

In the same way that Richie was this year.

Though, of course, TD has the potential to be a more complete GC rider than any we've seen since Indurain (or, perhaps, Chris Froome).

Nibali is probably the most complete.

I don't want to get into this discussion here, but in my opinion Nibali is severely overrated as a GC rider.
His results belie his abilities.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Think Dumoulin has the potential to be more complete than Nibali. For sure he is a better TT-er. He is better at 1-climb stages, and he's as good as a descender (and more on technical skill, not pure guts like Nibs). Nibs is better at multi mtf for now, but dumoulin has shown rapid growth there too. And Dumoulin shows aptitude for hilly and cobbled stages/classics as well.

However, modern cycling has shown you cannot be jack of all trades. So he'll have to chose every year.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Think Dumoulin has the potential to be more complete than Nibali. For sure he is a better TT-er. He is better at 1-climb stages, and he's as good as a descender (and more on technical skill, not pure guts like Nibs). Nibs is better at multi mtf for now, but dumoulin has shown rapid growth there too. And Dumoulin shows aptitude for hilly and cobbled stages/classics as well.

However, modern cycling has shown you cannot be jack of all trades. So he'll have to chose every year.

That is something I'm not gonna say. Dumoulin is competent, but he's no Nibali downhill.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.

I'd go as far as saying Nibali is one of the most overrated downhillers in the peloton. More on guts than anything else, and the only reason it looks so impressive is because he usually is with less risk taking GC men.

Most sprinters would outdo him. And it's also why Dumoulin outdoes him..

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.

I'd go as far as saying Nibali is one of the most overrated downhillers in the peloton. More on guts than anything else, and the only reason it looks so impressive is because he usually is with less risk taking GC men.

Most sprinters would outdo him. And it's also why Dumoulin outdoes him..

Trusting the data of Velon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWQ1VZDbUyY
Look at the flags after the summit and before the start of the descent. Nibali and Quintana are there at 3:32:13, TD is there at 3:34:24
In the end TD arrived 2:18 behind. So TD lost a few seconds on the descent.

 

[bambino]

Re:

Think Dumoulin has the potential to be more complete than Nibali. For sure he is a better TT-er. He is better at 1-climb stages, and he's as good as a descender (and more on technical skill, not pure guts like Nibs). Nibs is better at multi mtf for now, but dumoulin has shown rapid growth there too. And Dumoulin shows aptitude for hilly and cobbled stages/classics as well.

However, modern cycling has shown you cannot be jack of all trades. So he'll have to chose every year.

Agree on the potential, however the discussion is bit pre-mature. Let's see when TD ends his (looks to become glorious) career if he has 9 GT podiums (I recon Nibs will actually end up with 10-12), monument, multiple classic podiums etc. in his palmares. Whatever people tends to say about Nibs' GT opponents, one does not end up to such list by being generally overrated. He definitely is in the mix of 3 best GC riders after Amstrong era and as regards of completeness as a all-rounder will be way ahead of Berto and Froome. I would actually say he is pretty underrated in the world of cycling for somewhat reason, probably because not-so-flashy personality.

Not saying though that TD wouldn't stand a chance to become something equally great.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.

I'd go as far as saying Nibali is one of the most overrated downhillers in the peloton. More on guts than anything else, and the only reason it looks so impressive is because he usually is with less risk taking GC men.

Most sprinters would outdo him. And it's also why Dumoulin outdoes him..

So we're going off one descent with questionable data? A descent that's pretty straightforward too with a fair amount of pedaling?

Nibali has decided monuments downhill. He's done his fair share of demonic descents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPHnqI13vPk

And most sprinters would outdo him? That matters absolutely nothing if they're not there to contest the victory. Valverde wins many races in a sprint, but I'm not gonna discount that because Kittel would win that sprint had he been there.

 

[hazaran]

Re: Re:

So we're going off one descent with questionable data? A descent that's pretty straightforward too with a fair amount of pedaling?

Nibali has decided monuments downhill. He's done his fair share of demonic descents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPHnqI13vPk

And most sprinters would outdo him? That matters absolutely nothing if they're not there to contest the victory. Valverde wins many races in a sprint, but I'm not gonna discount that because Kittel would win that sprint had he been there.

That was decided by Valverde sitting in the group, not whatever Nibali did.

 

[Robert5091]

Though Tommy D might hold his own against Froome in the TT, climbing against the Sky train will be interesting next year if Tommy D does the TdF.

 

[portugal11]

From what I see in both giro and tour, I really think dumoulin is the best gt rider in the world. He is more complete than froome. Froome can't destroy the field anymore in the climbs so I think dumoulin will not have any problem in following froome's accelerations.
Skyborgs will be very important next year. Froome will have to race like contador

 

[Ruby United]

Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.
.............

We all know Kwiat is abnormally good at descending, but even so it was quite telling in San Sebastian watching Kwiat drop Dumo on the descent - the difference between their descending skills was massive.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.
.............

We all know Kwiat is abnormally good at descending, but even so it was quite telling in San Sebastian watching Kwiat drop Dumo on the descent - the difference between their descending skills was massive.

Kwiat's downhill ability is in the league of sagan. Froome is way worse than kwiat and I think froome is a good descender. In the last stage of dauphine, kwia was dropped in the climb and he was able to surpass porte :surprised: and bridge the gap to the froome's group. He is insane!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.
.............

We all know Kwiat is abnormally good at descending, but even so it was quite telling in San Sebastian watching Kwiat drop Dumo on the descent - the difference between their descending skills was massive.

That's because Dumoulin didn't know the descent at all. While Kwiatkowski had previous experience.

Besides, it was Nibali we were comparing him to. Not Kwiatkowski. Point void.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

I totally disagree, he was faster than Nibali in the stage Nibali won. And we can all agree Nibali went full there.
.............

We all know Kwiat is abnormally good at descending, but even so it was quite telling in San Sebastian watching Kwiat drop Dumo on the descent - the difference between their descending skills was massive.

That's because Dumoulin didn't know the descent at all. While Kwiatkowski had previous experience.

Besides, it was Nibali we were comparing him to. Not Kwiatkowski. Point void.

I wasn't comparing Nibali and Dumo. I wasn't getting involved in the previous argument.
My point was that there is clearly a massive difference between Dumo and the top descenders.
This is true.
So my point endures.