Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

that doesn't make sense... if we look to the last 5 riders to win the worlds, we can see that all of them raced the tour and skip the vuelta (in 2015, sagan abandoned the vuelta on stage 6 or 7, I don't remember very well). So the best chance to win in innsbruck, is focus on winning the tour, rest and prepare the worlds.

Correlation does not imply causation. It just so happens that most top riders ride the Tour regardless, as it's by far the most important race.

Yes, and riding the Tour as a sprinter or stage hunter is one thing, riding as a genuine GC contender is another thing entirely.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

I dont get it either. Sure he will be a relatively big favourite for the race, but I can't imagine him racing the Giro had this not come out about Froomey. A bit disappointing actually.

the decision was made weeks ago already, before the Froome incident.

 

[theracingelf]

I don't really see what another Giro win adds for him at this point in his career, I really thought the only logical next step for him was to aim at the Tour. He can always come back to the Giro later in his career to try and win it again but for now it doesn't really make sense to me, it's not like the Giro route favours him that much better than the Tour's.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I don't really see what another Giro win adds for him at this point in his career, I really thought the only logical next step for him was to aim at the Tour. He can always come back to the Giro later in his career to try and win it again but for now it doesn't really make sense to me, it's not like the Giro route favours him that much better than the Tour's.

It adds a 2nd GT win. I agree that a Tour would add more, but I'm not deciding.

It would be interesting to see what team he'd get with him.

 

[postpost]

Re: Re:

I dont get it either. Sure he will be a relatively big favourite for the race, but I can't imagine him racing the Giro had this not come out about Froomey. A bit disappointing actually.

the decision was made weeks ago already, before the Froome incident.

it was even decided before the route-presentation of the Giro, wich is even more curious.

the only reason for that would be that he's gonna focus for both the rainbow jerseys after the Giro? or for the dubble (vuelta), something like that?

 

[Salvarani]

Tour is just looking like a lot of trouble and I been saying going to the Giro would be the best decision, so Im happy with the news. Bring a strong team and he should have a very good chance of a podium spot or another win, if he in the same form as last year and have the legs for it.

Who knows. He might still line up at the Tour too, just not saying it.

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

Stupid decision by Dumoulin. Surely if (and only if) Froome gets banned the Giro should be a easy win, but a extra Giro wont mean much for his palmares. And at the same time he will lose a great chance in the Tour, with a tired Froome or no Froome and a decent parcours for him. And the TDF means so much more than the Giro weather we like it or not, and this might have been his best chance to win it in many years.

I dont see how it will be "easy" with Lopez, Pinot, Aru and possibly someone out of the big 3 from Movistar maybe lining up (probably Landa or Valverde). There is also Froome if not banned. Even though I hope he is done now or wont be the same, but still.

+ a couple of outsiders that gonna line-up.

Maybe Dumoulin just dont feel that strongly about the Tour and like the Giro better. Tour comes with a lot of bs and he still have time to go there in the future if he wants too.

 

[staubsauger]

As long as Movistar doesn't send Landa to the Giro after all, it's a walk in the park for Dumoulin, unless he cracks unexpectedly or Lopez majorily improves over the winter. I don't see Aru really contesting Big Tom given his inconsistency and trend to struggle in the high mountains himself over 3 weeks. Yes, he did beat him at the 2015 Vuelta. But eventually that was more Team Astana beating Dumoulin than it was Aru's victory.

 

[hfer07]

I actually think is OK for Tom not to get dragged by the Tour hype BS yet, and rather go for the races he likes & enjoys - which seems to be the case with Il Giro.

I also tend to believe Tom was offered some "reward" to be part of it, once the Froome scandal made the daylight- so in my book is a win-win situation.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Let me get 2 things straight though, and this annoys me for a big part also.

Dumoulin does not make decisions based on which rider will ride which Tour. He made that clear last year already before deciding his Giro start. And he said sort of the same a month ago. He is of opinion you cannot plan a season based on other riders programmes plus, more importantly, you should always rely on your own strength.

Secondly. The decision was not made after the Froome incident. He said at the Giro presentation he had made his choice already, and this was BEFORE the Froome incident was out in the open. So the decision has nothing to do with that. What was known for weeks already has only been leaked by de Telegraaf now so that everybody knows now... NOT that the decision has just been made.

So all the theories concerning other riders programmes can stop. They had nothing to do with this.

 

[Ruby United]

Re:

Let me get 2 things straight though, and this annoys me for a big part also.

Dumoulin does not make decisions based on which rider will ride which Tour. He made that clear last year already before deciding his Giro start. And he said sort of the same a month ago. He is of opinion you cannot plan a season based on other riders programmes plus, more importantly, you should always rely on your own strength.

Secondly. The decision was not made after the Froome incident. He said at the Giro presentation he had made his choice already, and this was BEFORE the Froome incident was out in the open. So the decision has nothing to do with that. What was known for weeks already has only been leaked by de Telegraaf now so that everybody knows now... NOT that the decision has just been made.

So all the theories concerning other riders programmes can stop. They had nothing to do with this.

All of this is true if we take Dumoulin at his word.
And we all know the dangers of taking GT winners at their word.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

However this is not based on dumoulins word alone, the decision was known weeks ago, both sunweb, dumoulin, everyone there said the choice was made, and that was before froome incident. At that point all that was known was that Froome would ride the Giro too. So regardless of what Froome did Dumoulin chose the Giro, this is a undeniable fact. So you can cut out the stupid theories here

 

[postpost]

Re:

said

:lol:

but yes, I'm really curious, if it's not about the riders, and not even about the route-design, about what is it?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

it is about the route design. And appearently team/rider think it's better than the Tour for him

 

[Laplaz]

Finally someone who snobs the heavily overrated and boring Tour de France.

 

[Escarabajo]

Why would he do this. Don't get it!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Pretty insane to think about that the two biggest favourites for the Tour just went poof in December.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

Riders who target the TDF every year are criticised for having the blinkers on and ignoring the fact that two other GT's exist. Riders who target a GT other than the TDF are criticised for not having the courage to try to win the hardest (competition wise) GT.

Dumoulin is right to defend his Giro and shun the TDF. The TDF has put in another pathetic amount of ITT kms and Tom shouldn't target it until this changes IMO.

 

[SafeBet]

Well I'm certainly not complaining. Having the two strongest GT riders targeting the Giro (we'll see if Froome can ride it) is a breath of fresh air.

That said, it really comes as a surprise. A Dutch GT rider in his prime choosing the Giro over the Tour. Kruijswijk doesn't feel alone anymore.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Well I'm certainly not complaining. Having the two strongest GT riders targeting the Giro (we'll see if Froome can ride it) is a breath of fresh air.

That said, it really comes as a surprise. A Dutch GT rider in his prime choosing the Giro over the Tour. Kruijswijk doesn't feel alone anymore.

Yeah, its pretty much unheard of. Imagine Contador and Schleck or Armstrong and Ullrich targetting the Giro in their prime like that (well its not the same obviously since Dumoulin doesn't have the GC-credentials, but still). Last time the two best GC-riders went to the Giro was 2006, but Ullrich was starting to shred 10 kg before TdF and Basso could have 60 racedays pre Tour and still win.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Well I'm certainly not complaining. Having the two strongest GT riders targeting the Giro (we'll see if Froome can ride it) is a breath of fresh air.

That said, it really comes as a surprise. A Dutch GT rider in his prime choosing the Giro over the Tour. Kruijswijk doesn't feel alone anymore.

Yeah, its pretty much unheard of. Imagine Contador and Schleck or Armstrong and Ullrich targetting the Giro in their prime like that (well its not the same obviously since Dumoulin doesn't have the GC-credentials, but still). Last time the two best GC-riders went to the Giro was 2006, but Ullrich was starting to shred 10 kg before TdF and Basso could have 60 racedays pre Tour and still win.

Honestly after one Giro I think it's a pretty big leap to proclaim Dumoulin one of the 2 best GC rider in the world after he won a GT heavy Giro by 40s to the rest of the podium and the rest of the top 5 at less than 2 minutes.

 

[postpost]

Re: Re:

Well I'm certainly not complaining. Having the two strongest GT riders targeting the Giro (we'll see if Froome can ride it) is a breath of fresh air.

That said, it really comes as a surprise. A Dutch GT rider in his prime choosing the Giro over the Tour. Kruijswijk doesn't feel alone anymore.

Yeah, its pretty much unheard of. Imagine Contador and Schleck or Armstrong and Ullrich targetting the Giro in their prime like that (well its not the same obviously since Dumoulin doesn't have the GC-credentials, but still). Last time the two best GC-riders went to the Giro was 2006, but Ullrich was starting to shred 10 kg before TdF and Basso could have 60 racedays pre Tour and still win.

Honestly after one Giro I think it's a pretty big leap to proclaim Dumoulin one of the 2 best GC rider in the world after he won a GT heavy Giro by 40s to the rest of the podium and the rest of the top 5 at less than 2 minutes.

add up 2+ on top of that 40s

so until now, I haven't seen this news coming from only one place/source? is it reliable?

also coming back on why I said " if it's not the route design":
I read somewhere that Tom (& Sunweb) already knew wich GT Tom would pickbefore the Giro's route design, because it took too long, but I can't find it anywhere, anyone?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

Riders who target the TDF every year are criticised for having the blinkers on and ignoring the fact that two other GT's exist. Riders who target a GT other than the TDF are criticised for not having the courage to try to win the hardest (competition wise) GT.

Dumoulin is right to defend his Giro and shun the TDF. The TDF has put in another pathetic amount of ITT kms and Tom shouldn't target it until this changes IMO.

There are more TT km's in the TDF.

 

[glassmoon]

I like Giro better anyways. Chapeau Tom.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Well I'm certainly not complaining. Having the two strongest GT riders targeting the Giro (we'll see if Froome can ride it) is a breath of fresh air.

That said, it really comes as a surprise. A Dutch GT rider in his prime choosing the Giro over the Tour. Kruijswijk doesn't feel alone anymore.

Yeah, its pretty much unheard of. Imagine Contador and Schleck or Armstrong and Ullrich targetting the Giro in their prime like that (well its not the same obviously since Dumoulin doesn't have the GC-credentials, but still). Last time the two best GC-riders went to the Giro was 2006, but Ullrich was starting to shred 10 kg before TdF and Basso could have 60 racedays pre Tour and still win.

Honestly after one Giro I think it's a pretty big leap to proclaim Dumoulin one of the 2 best GC rider in the world after he won a GT heavy Giro by 40s to the rest of the podium and the rest of the top 5 at less than 2 minutes.

add up 2+ on top of that 40s

so until now, I haven't seen this news coming from only one place/source? is it reliable?

also coming back on why I said " if it's not the route design":
I read somewhere that Tom (& Sunweb) already knew wich GT Tom would pickbefore the Giro's route design, because it took too long, but I can't find it anywhere, anyone?

Closer to 1'20''