Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Bardamu]

Wasn't Di Luca the last one?

 

[Netserk]

Vino.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Vino.

Also shows the importance of having teammates in the group behind.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Vino was a painful one for me personally.. Boogerd finally got rid of Bettini and all other Italian fast puncheurs.. and then Vino still had 15 or 20 seconds left of the minute advantage he had with Voigt on Saint Nicolas..

 

[Bardamu]

He meant the other time that Vino won LBL.

But that year Boogerd indeed was by far the strongest, yet he did not win.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Hm. He's not the one to attack uphill. He should be attacking on top of a hill, on false flats, or inbetween parts. Slip away unnoticed and TT to the finish..

It's been a while since LBL was won that way

It's been a longer time since LBL was seriously contested by a dude going to the Giro.

Valverde, two years ago...

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Hm. He's not the one to attack uphill. He should be attacking on top of a hill, on false flats, or inbetween parts. Slip away unnoticed and TT to the finish..

It's been a while since LBL was won that way

It's been a longer time since LBL was seriously contested by a dude going to the Giro.

Valverde, two years ago...

Well, he didn't contest for the win in 2016.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Vino.

Also shows the importance of having teammates in the group behind.

no... this just shows how money can buy everything

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I really would have liked him to go to the TdF, i think he would have stood a chance. And it's basically one of the few winners of a recent GT that i genuinely like.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I really would have liked him to go to the TdF, i think he would have stood a chance. And it's basically one of the few winners of a recent GT that i genuinely like.

Has he ruled it out yet? Even with Froome there he’d have a chance, but with no Froome...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

He has not been ruled out yet. In fact, Aike Visbeek spoke out of his turn and said he would do the Tour. Sunweb quickly retracted that statement.

However, today Dumoulin has been spotted reconning the pavé sections that will be in the Tour this year.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

He has not been ruled out yet. In fact, Aike Visbeek spoke out of his turn and said he would do the Tour. Sunweb quickly retracted that statement.

However, today Dumoulin has been spotted reconning the pavé sections that will be in the Tour this year.

Win double or nothing?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Probably nothing. Ofcourse the lack of results this year is easily explainable. But I think the Giro course is not in his favor. He'll lose to one of the climbing specialist. And in the TDF if he even participates he'll probably be worn out.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

Fully agree. Except that I would 100% not send him to the Tour. The only thing he can do in the Tour de France is lose the rest of his season.

If I were him I'd rather take a 10% shot at the Vuelta or a 1% shot at the WCRR (+very good shot at ITT) than a 0% shot at the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

Fully agree. Except that I would 100% not send him to the Tour. The only thing he can do in the Tour de France is lose the rest of his season.

If I were him I'd rather take a 10% shot at the Vuelta or a 1% shot at the WCRR (+very good shot at Tour) than a 0% shot at the Tour.

Well if he can get slowly into the race and win a transitional stage before the Pyrenees or one in the Pyrenees plus the ITT, he shouldn't be too spent. But I think that skipping the Tour is the best option as well, but it seems like he really wanna race it. And in that case - just skip the damn Giro in the first place which I never understood why he would race.

 

[Bardamu]

I think he will try to get a stage in the Tour and help Kelderman. Second part of the season will be to prepare for WC where he again has a good shot at the TT and perhaps in the RR, although he still has never won a one-day race I believe.

 

[Salvarani]

Will he have enough race days before this Giro is my question though... and will the altitude training and LBL be enough prep for him?

He has had the same program as last year, but Abu Dhabi was bad. Strade not as good as last year. Crash in Tirreno and missing the last 3 stages. Compared to last year... where he finished 3rd in GC in Abu Dhabi, 5th Strade and 6th GC Tirreno.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Wondering the same, but, that being said, he was good in San Remo (better than result suggests) and he doesn't need much racing coming straight of altitude camp.

I do think it makes a difference in confidence though.. He's not had a 'nice' start so confidence in the Giro will be lower. I think that'll work against him. So I hope for a good result in LBL.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

Suisse is that couple of weeks closer to the Giro, though. And from what was rumoured, his post-Giro “recovery” was definitely not conducive to riding many more bike races that year.

What was Pantani’s program in 98? I know Roche didn’t race between the 2 in 87, and commented that he was surprised Contador did the Route du Sud in 2015.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

Suisse is that couple of weeks closer to the Giro, though. And from what was rumoured, his post-Giro “recovery” was definitely not conducive to riding many more bike races that year.

What was Pantani’s program in 98? I know Roche didn’t race between the 2 in 87, and commented that he was surprised Contador did the Route du Sud in 2015.

That's the whole mistake with the double. It was possible when there was less time in-between the 2 races than nowadays, not more like this time around. Ever since the 5 weeks gap the double has only been archived by Pantani in 98. That said I believe apart from Murcia and Co he had a lighter program prior to the Giro, than for example in 97 & 99. Also, to answer the question, he didn't ride at all between the Giro and the Tour. But keep in mind, clinic talk aside, Pantani was able to ride himself into shape during a grand tour. That's what Menchov tried back in 2009 and he failed completely.


http://www.dewielersite.net/db2/wielersite/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=3299
Edith adds it looks like he did Murcia & Valenciana prior to the Giro, but no T-A, Basque Country or L-B-L. Not sure about M-SR though, since this schedule is a bit incomplete. But he wasn't at the Tour of Switzerland like in 95 & 97,that's for sure!

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

I think its a dumb experiment. He should just forget about the Tour and go 100% after the Giro and if he feels great, for some reason, then go race the Tour. He was completely spent in Tour of Switzerland last year after the Giro, I cant imagine he will be much better in the Tour. I think something along the lines of what Nibali did in 2016 should be the goal, Dumoulin has the bigger repertoire as a stage hunter and could easily win a couple of stages like he did in 2016 if he only focused on that. GC is doomed after riding the Giro, I seriously can't see him doing well in the Tour after that race, even with more time in-between.

What was Pantani’s program in 98?

 

[Leinster]

Should I have said “race schedule”? “Calendar”? I don’t know how his “training program” compared to, say, Virenque’s or Ullrich’s.

 

[Red Rick]

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/04/05/bang-zijn-voor-de-druk-helpt-niet-a1598343

Nice interview ahead of his last altitude block before the Giro

Seems like he's been struggling with the expectation. He's been having a tough time mentally, and he doesn't perfrom his best when he's tight. Might have been overtraining and pushing himself too hard through the winter

 

[Bardamu]

I think he'll be fine for the Giro, but I wonder what he can do in LBL. EIther working for Matthews or go in the offensive himself?