Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[del1962]

Dumoulin focused fully on the TDF is a scary prospect for the rest of the peloton.....based on what we've seen this year i don't see anybody who can beat him, no matter what the course.

I tend to agree

 

[hrotha]

Very disappointing today.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re:

Very disappointing today.

huh?

he realized soon enough what armchair experts don't understand - that Thomas was not on a bad day, the opposite in fact.

thomas did not have to work and did you actually see the pulls that froome ended up giving - weak crap.

please tell me why dumo should sacrifice a hard fought 2nd place (his very first podium in the TDF) to please silly armchair experts.

u guys make me laugh.

 

[Red Rick]

Still think bridging to the Landa group would've given him a better shot at winning the race, especially if Roglic joins. And if it's entirely hopeless it's pretty clear pretty quickly.

Whatevs.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Armchair experts ftw. I understand it. But I also understand Dumoulins viewpoint. He tried, saw that Thomas was not to be beaten today, and then focussed on the next opponent.

People forget to quickly that he tried a climb solo already, and attacked basically every other mountain stage except the downhill ones, and was countered every time by Thomas. It's kinda stupid that you are still complaining. This is a time trial/steady climber who against his nature attacked on every mountain stage whilst also have the Giro in the legs.

 

[hrotha]

So because his performance was great his tactical mistakes shouldn't be pointed out. Gotcha.

This is Cycling 101. You don't do the leader's job for him. The absolute worst that could happen to Dumo if he took the risk would be that he'd go down from 2nd to 3rd, but still remain on the podium regardless. The horror.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

There is no tactical mistake. Thomas was not going to chase Roglic. He had a far too large buffer for that and easily would have let Roglic come within 1'20 and let Bernal or Froome limit the damage. Then Dumoulin loses his 2nd place and looks like an idiot. And yes, that's more valuable than 3rd.

 

[Escarabajo]

So 2nd = 3rd?

Second is very important to the riders. Especially for one that comes from the Giro.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

So 2nd = 3rd?

Second is very important to the riders. Especially for one that comes from the Giro.

No. But 2nd to 3rd is a relatively small price to pay, so when you consider the risk to reward ratio...

 

[Jagartrott]

Meh, he rode not to lose. OK, not my favourite style of riding, but fair enough. However, pulling in the last km was just plain stupid because he lost everyt chance for the bonus seconds that way.

 

[Winnen]

Re:

So because his performance was great his tactical mistakes shouldn't be pointed out. Gotcha.

This is Cycling 101. You don't do the leader's job for him. The absolute worst that could happen to Dumo if he took the risk would be that he'd go down from 2nd to 3rd, but still remain on the podium regardless. The horror.

I would have liked him to to this. But the fact that the gap towards GT was bigger than between him and PR didn't help. My guess is that he felt that second place was the best he could achieve this year and that he did everything he could to achieve that.

For me personally, I would have liked him to ride like you said. But we have even seen teams defend nr 10 positions in a gc so this is not that much of a surprise.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

So 2nd = 3rd?

Second is very important to the riders. Especially for one that comes from the Giro.

No. But 2nd to 3rd is a relatively small price to pay, so when you consider the risk to reward ratio...

That depends on how likely a different course of action would've made winning the Tour. Two people who completely agree on the worth of 1st, 2nd and 3rd can disagree on tactics if they disagree on that

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Great ride today. He tried a few times and then protected his second place as he obviously should. Second in the Giro and second in the Tour is one of the best double attempts since Pantani. And that in his first ever season riding two Grand Tours. Chapeau!

 

[JosephK]

So today, at the end, Dumo should have given up another 30 seconds on Roglic to have an outside chance to pick up 6 seconds on Thomas? :lol:

 

[hrotha]

So today, at the end, Dumo should have given up another 30 seconds on Roglic to have an outside chance to pick up 6 seconds on Thomas? :lol:

No.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Big chance Roglic will overtake him tomorrow anyway. But 3rd after a big Giro was still more than I bargained for. I hoped for a top 5. This is beyond expectation

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Big chance Roglic will overtake him tomorrow anyway. But 3rd after a big Giro was still more than I bargained for. I hoped for a top 5. This is beyond expectation

You don't want to jinx him do you?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Big chance Roglic will overtake him tomorrow anyway. But 3rd after a big Giro was still more than I bargained for. I hoped for a top 5. This is beyond expectation

You don't want to jinx him do you?

If Dumoulin wants to win the ITT, then I guess I want to date Scarlett Johansson

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Big chance Roglic will overtake him tomorrow anyway. But 3rd after a big Giro was still more than I bargained for. I hoped for a top 5. This is beyond expectation

You don't want to jinx him do you?

If Dumoulin wants to win the ITT, then I guess I want to date Scarlett Johansson

 

[Carols]

Re:

There is no tactical mistake. Thomas was not going to chase Roglic. He had a far too large buffer for that and easily would have let Roglic come within 1'20 and let Bernal or Froome limit the damage. Then Dumoulin loses his 2nd place and looks like an idiot. And yes, that's more valuable than 3rd.

He's given admirable performances, I agree there was no tactical mistake. He has done all he could, Thomas and Sky have been just to strong. He can still win the TT tomorrow if he has enough left in the tank. And a 2nd in the Giro and a 2nd in the Tour is no easy feat, it's something to be proud of!

 

[Big Doopie]

Re:

There is no tactical mistake. Thomas was not going to chase Roglic. He had a far too large buffer for that and easily would have let Roglic come within 1'20 and let Bernal or Froome limit the damage. Then Dumoulin loses his 2nd place and looks like an idiot. And yes, that's more valuable than 3rd.

bingo.

and i also agree that dumo may still lose his 2nd place tomorrow.

but you gotta do what you gotta do in the moment. if i remember correctly, it was actually dumo's attack that dislodged froome on soulor. but thomas was right there. dumo then gave roglic the elbow to come through and put some distance into froome. but roglic attacked instead (which was his choice, totally fine!) and now dumo had to chase back on just to not lose roglic and thomas' wheel. at that point dumo probably realized that there was no dislodging thomas and that he could now worry only about super strong roglic's threat to his 2nd place.

the amazing thing about thomas' TDF ride is that -- because he never was behind on time because of crashes or mechanicals like all the others -- he literally only had to put his nose in the wind a couple of times, for very short explosive bursts (usually after his opponents or team had done much of the pacing) for maximum gain (incl. time bonus. think about it:

La Rosiere: short burst to get behind dumo (who had already been time-trialing for a while), sat on his wheel, then attacked with less than 1km and got max bonus.

Alpe d'Huez: followed wheels/attacks until the final sprint and then got max bonus.

"Plat d'Adet": followed wheels/attacks until last few hundered metres and then got a few seconds and a bonus.

Today: followed wheels/attacks until the final sprint and then got bonus.

Nothing against it, but unfortunately, that's really all it takes to make the necessary difference these days to win a GT.

 

[Red Rick]

Thomas' 2018 TdF win to me is a less impressive version of Contador's 2014 Vuelta win.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Thomas' 2018 TdF win to me is a less impressive version of Contador's 2014 Vuelta win.

You just can’t help bringing everything back to Bertie

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

Second in the Giro and second in the Tour is one of the best double attempts since Pantani. And that in his first ever season riding two Grand Tours. Chapeau!

I think it is the best double since Pantani (assuming he finishes second), surprised there hasn't been more emphasis on that. Assuming Froome finishes off the podium, I think Dumo's double is the more impressive. Thomas picked up at least 30 seconds on bonuses, which of course aren't always on offer in Tours, and another 50 seconds because Dumo had a mechanical the first week. Take those away, and Dumo would be 45" behind, possibly close enough to take yellow tomorrow. Just with that one not so long ITT, when Tours usually have two of them.

Should also consider, though, that Roglic lost more than a minute to both Thomas/Froome and Dumo in the TTT. Take that away, and he'd be solidly in second now.

 

[Carols]

Re:

Thomas' 2018 TdF win to me is a less impressive version of Contador's 2014 Vuelta win.

He hasn't won it just yet!