Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Yep.
Is he going to the Vuelta? Wonder if he could compete there. The thing is that there are others who failed in the Tour and will likely go to the Vuelta with GC ambitions, but didn't go as deep compared to him.

There was a paywalled article I think where he suggest he was likely going to do the Vuelta. He also made it seem like "who else are they gonna send." I think he wants to see how he recovers obviously, but I don't think he's against it. And he really seems in a good mood the last week or so, which I think is pretty damn important. He must've felt really shite at Sunweb seeing as that rider salary thing posted in the stage thread earlier suggested he basically took like a 40% pay cut to come to Jumbo.

 

[Red Rick]

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

It's a simple case of being "good" but not super. He's not going to go from good to super in 3 weeks. I think the base was just not enough for that. Not enough racing, 400 days without that extreme high effort stuff from races... that was a little too long.

I think this Tour will be a big help in getting back to his old self. I don't worry at all. In fact I think it's quite encouraging that others are getting worse (uran, yates, etc) while he is staying on the same level. Shows good recovery

Another big thing is a bunch of stages have been ridden in a Vuelta style of wait for 20 minute yolo effort which doesn't suit Dumoulin at all. The Grand Colombier stage was very encouraging IMO.

How far was he back on the climb today anyway?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i think at the worst he was at about 30 seconds back i guess? when he was with porte after the puncture it was 20/25

 

[lenric]

I'm not too worried with him coming back to his former self physically as I am about it when it comes to his mentality.
Roglic winning in such a fashion will undeniably make him the 1st in the pecking order and, along with how last year went for Dumo, the biggest challenge for him is to overcome the fact that he will have 2021 only to become the 2nd rider on JV's pecking order, especially if other guy comes around (especially one of the youngsters like Kuss or whatever).

2021 will be the most important year for Dumoulin imo.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'm not too worried with him coming back to his former self physically as I am about it when it comes to his mentality.
Roglic winning in such a fashion will undeniably make him the 1st in the pecking order and, along with how last year went for Dumo, the biggest challenge for him is to overcome the fact that he will have 2021 only to become the 2nd rider on JV's pecking order, especially if other guy comes around (especially one of the youngsters like Kuss or whatever).

2021 will be the most important year for Dumoulin imo.

Youngster Kuss is only 4 years younger i believe, and i doubt Kuss will ever be a GT contender. Don't expect van Aert to take that step anytime soon either, maybe in a few years in case he 'd have won the classics he'd have liked to win. And even then. Foss is no GT material. Bennett clearly isn't either, Kruijswijk is a lot older, De Plus is moving away.

So it's only Roglic for the next 2 or 3 years, and that means he would always ride at least one GT as an undisputed leader, if he so chooses. Also, i think what we've seen from Roglic this TDF, is the best we'll ever see him, which is not the case for Dumoulin.

 

[lenric]

Youngster Kuss is only 4 years younger i believe, and i doubt Kuss will ever be a GT contender. Don't expect van Aert to take that step anytime soon either, maybe in a few years in case he 'd have won the classics he'd have liked to win. And even then. Foss is no GT material. Bennett clearly isn't either, Kruijswijk is a lot older, De Plus is moving away.

So it's only Roglic for the next 2 or 3 years, and that means he would always ride at least one GT as an undisputed leader, if he so chooses. Also, i think what we've seen from Roglic this TDF, is the best we'll ever see him, which is not the case for Dumoulin.

True, but I fear Dumoulin won't be the leader in the 2021 Tour and they'll hire some younger GC prospect for 2022.
Next year will be major for Dumoulin's GC prospects in JV.

Anyway, I hope he can perform well in the Vuelta, if he rides it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

True, but I fear Dumoulin won't be the leader in the 2021 Tour and they'll hire some younger GC prospect for 2022.
Next year will be major for Dumoulin's GC prospects in JV.

Anyway, I hope he can perform well in the Vuelta, if he rides it.

I can't really think of any young gun that will be ready for that role in the near future, that isn't tied up already. Unless you're talking about guys like Lopez or Yates?

If he improves a bit, and Roglic isn't as good as this year (which is likely, because i don't think he'll ever be this good again) i could easily see him go toe to toe with Roglic and share leadership.

 

[lenric]

I can't really think of any young gun that will be ready for that role in the near future, that isn't tied up already.

If he improves a bit, and Roglic isn't as good as this year (which is likely, because i don't think he'll ever be this good again) i could easily see him go toe to toe with Roglic and share leadership.

I don't know, if Dumoulin rides this year's Vuelta and wins it and next year's TDF has 2 relatively long ITT perhaps.
At this point, TD is a bigger ? than Roglic.

 

[Red Rick]

and next year's TDF has 2 relatively long ITT perhaps.

I see you have an appointment with disappointment as well.

 

[lenric]

I see you have an appointment with disappointment as well.

I'd happily trade one dull sprint stage with one ITT (especially MTT).

 

[Red Rick]

I'd happily trade one dull sprint stage with one ITT (especially MTT).

With the lack of ITTs I don't think MTTs are the answer, unless you perhaps mean like in the 2016 Tour? That was fine.

Overall the mean has fallen so low a 40km ITT is too much to ask for.

 

[lenric]

With the lack of ITTs I don't think MTTs are the answer, unless you perhaps mean like in the 2016 Tour? That was fine.

Overall the mean has fallen so low a 40km ITT is too much to ask for.

I think that year's TdF had one of the best routes of the last decade.
But I'd make that MTT a bit longer and the last mountain stages a tad smaller.

 

[Big Doopie]

Yes. The route design is so important.

That’s kind of why I wish he took his growing form to the Giro.

 

[Luthor]

I wish he would've went for Giro. He would have been a strong contestant there.

Unless something drastic happens, Roglic would be #1 for JV next year and most likely he would want to defend his title.
He should go next year to the GT with the most ITT, either Giro alone or co-leader with Roglic in Tour. But I feel like this year's route didn't actually suited him for a win. Same goes for Vuelta, although the field might be weak the route is not great for him.

Kuss isn't gonna become a GT contender over the night, he needs to improve his TT greatly. Bennett seems to struggle unless he is in good form, at best I can see him as a second leader. Foss won Avenir but is far from a GT contender. And Kruiswijk doesn't seem to have the edge Tom has.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I wish he would've went for Giro. He would have been a strong contestant there.

Unless something drastic happens, Roglic would be #1 for JV next year and most likely he would want to defend his title.
He should go next year to the GT with the most ITT, either Giro alone or co-leader with Roglic in Tour. But I feel like this year's route didn't actually suited him for a win. Same goes for Vuelta, although the field might be weak the route is not great for him.

Kuss isn't gonna become a GT contender over the night, he needs to improve his TT greatly. Bennett seems to struggle unless he is in good form, at best I can see him as a second leader. Foss won Avenir but is far from a GT contender. And Kruiswijk doesn't seem to have the edge Tom has.

I think he would have faced the same issues in the Giro, just because he hasn't raced for so long. He might have been able to do a few more prep races to get into shape, compared to the Tour. But i think he really needed that first GT in order to get back on track. If not for the short rest period, i could see him be the best at La Vuelta.

Kuss, i like him, and when he's good, he's great, but i think he'll never be consistent enough to be a GC guy in a GT. I think his ITT is a much smaller issue.

 

[CyclistAbi]

and Roglic isn't as good as this year (which is likely, because i don't think he'll ever be this good again)

I feel that Roglič is capable of sustaining such form, considering this is now his second seasons, being No.1. Likely he will still add a bit to it, as he constantly did in the past seasons.

As for Dumoulin, he above all has to be realistic, about his form and choose the right GT, as the main goal for the next season. Roglič is realistically higher in hierarchy and that never stopped Kruijswijk, for getting a fair chance, at any Gt he choose that season.

 

[Luthor]

I think he would have faced the same issues in the Giro, just because he hasn't raced for so long. He might have been able to do a few more prep races to get into shape, compared to the Tour. But i think he really needed that first GT in order to get back on track. If not for the short rest period, i could see him be the best at La Vuelta.

Kuss, i like him, and when he's good, he's great, but i think he'll never be consistent enough to be a GC guy in a GT. I think his ITT is a much smaller issue.

Given the route and the opponents Dumo had a fair chance for a podium. Kuss already goes to Vuelta, he can be a great help for Dumo. Benett might go as well, I don't see him going to the Giro in this form. If he goes back to Lombardia form maybe he can try to be protected there. Really curious what Roglic is gonna do during Vuelta, I don't think he plans to go for P-R.

 

[SafeBet]

I don't see the problem of being teammates with Roglic. Giro is likely going to have the better route for him anyway and he doesn't look like a Tour obsessed guy.

 

[cellardoor]

Personally I think it's more than possible that Roglic will prefer to do the Giro next year so that he can try and get the triple crown of GTs and banish last year's failure from his memory. That would leave the tour open to Dumoulin. I guess that Jumbo would also like to try and win the Tour with a Dutch rider.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I think that Tom should be happy with the form that he has returned to. It is not that short of 2017/18.

At that point in time I probably would have said that Tom was destined to win a Tour. Now I would say that with Roglic as team number 1 and with the routes still not favourable to roulers (hate trying to spell that word!), that Tom is at best, only about a 20% chance to ever win the Tour. Also because of the young talent coming through. Who knows, but even guys like Kamna and Hirschi could be throwing their hats into the GC ring in a couple of seasons time.

Still, there is probably a better than 50% chance that Tom wins another Giro, or Vuelta. How many peak seasons do we think that he has? Three?

 

[Gargamel35]

I think Roglič will aim towards Giro 2021 as his main goal of the season (unfinished business from 2019, and a desire to win all three GTs). And he'll go to TdF as co captain with Tom. It is very likely, Tom will be fresher and better then Roglič so Roglič will super dom Tom towards winning TdF.

 

[Red Rick]

I really doubt Roglic would go for the Giro next year.

Contador is literally the only rider I can remember who did the Giro the year after winning his first Tour, and we all know the reasons for that.

Not even Nibali went back to the Giro, even though he was Italian champion.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I really doubt Roglic would go for the Giro next year.

Contador is literally the only rider I can remember who did the Giro the year after winning his first Tour, and we all know the reasons for that.

Not even Nibali went back to the Giro, even though he was Italian champion.

Wiggins did it. But then again, he had internal team factors influencing that.

 

[Red Rick]

Wiggins did it. But then again, he had internal team factors influencing that.

I'm trying to forget he won the Tour

 

[SafeBet]

I really doubt Roglic would go for the Giro next year.

Contador is literally the only rider I can remember who did the Giro the year after winning his first Tour, and we all know the reasons for that.

Not even Nibali went back to the Giro, even though he was Italian champion.

Sastre.