Too many cogs?

[Valentino]

And a 50x11 gives 4.5455. Gotta love them compact cranks, even if the difference between the rings is 16 teeth.
50/34 up front and 11-25 in the back is enough for everything but the Zoncolan, according to a friend of mine who tried (ouch!).

 

[justme]

The 14spd Shimano is one of those ghosts that just won't go to rest.

Shimano has a huge R&D division. They develop and patent 1000's of things that they have no real intention of making. Last I heard they averaged almost 1 patent filed per day for the last decade. The 14speed was one of those, can we do it kind of projects.

While only a handful of people inside at Shimano have ever seen it, info was out there, though it's unlikely that any pictures of it would exist. Shimano protects their R&D facility even tighter than Trek does theirs(and their security is impressive.)

Anyway, there are a couple mistakes about it. The system is really quite innovative. It was 14 cogs, but does not require a larger freehub body than a standard 9/10 speed. The result was that the bracing angle of the wheel is not reduced. The cassette is built in steps with one cog hanging from the next. This allows them to go outward at the same angle as the spokes go inward. Also they were able to put more cogs in the same space by reducing the distance between them. What's really innovative is that even though they have reduced the space between them, the chain did not get any narrower. A special chain is required for this setup. It's a version of a skip link chain. The outside of the chain has only outer plates and no inner links. The inside of the chain has only inner links without outside plates. Then they took the inner links and built them in large arches instead of straight lines. They are arched enough so that they sit above the tooth on the cog in the next position of the cassette. So if your chain is on the 14t, the inner link is actually above the 15t cog.

Development of this system was said to have stopped shortly after it was developed. I was told in '97 or '98 that they had already pushed it aside. So don't expect to see it anytime soon. Though they do often borrow these old ideas to incorporate into new products.

Shimano currently believes that 10 speed is adequate and I think many in the company would have preferred to stay at 9. They did move to 10 from public pressure after Campag did it. However now that Sram is in the game, the real pressure comes from Sram and not from Campag. They won't feel compelled to go to 11speed unless Sram does it as well.

I still wish they hadn't moved to hidden cables from public pressure.

I also wouldn't hold out in hopes to see a 135 rear end on a road bike anytime soon.

11spd is finicky and not very tolerant of contamination. While it may be good for marketing it isn't great for racing. Expect to see Campag refine that over the next year or two. Heavier springs, coated cables etc...

 

[SlantParallelogram]

My point is, it is the same as when we changed from 5 to 6 and 6 to 7 and so on.

Except it really isn't the same. When 5 speed freewheels were around people welcomed the extra sprocket. The same goes for when 6 speed became the standard. However when 7 speed cassette/freehub systems had become the standard I didn't really hear anybody complaining about needing another sprocket.

So when 8 speed was introduced, it didn't really seem to be a big improvement to anybody. However, it was an even number, and it wasn't an absurd number so nobody really complained it was too many either.

Then they introduced 9 speed. Everybody I knew started to wonder, when is this all going to end. Then came ten speed. People started to say, enough already. It wasn't all that long ago that there were ten speeds on the whole bike, now we need ten speeds on the rear cluster?

Eleven speed is just a joke. The same goes for electric shifting.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Revert to single speed racing with flip/flops for the mountains.


Then we'd get african nations being competitive

yeah, yeah- it'd kill the industry- but the racing would be as cool as ever

As a great competitor once wrote
it's not about the bike

This is probably the best post I have read in a long time.

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Internal hub gears and pretty much every other gear system have much higher friction than a derailleur system. No professional racer would ever race on it, thus pretty much nobody would ever race on it.

Well if you want to start talking about friction...

Yes a gear drive has more mechanical drag (friction) then a chain.

Yet a chain has more mechanical drag (friction) than a belt drive. Except that the belt drive can't handle nearly as much power. You hear about this in the motorcycle racing world. That wouldn't be a problem with human power on a bicycle.

So who knows? A belt drive turning an internally geared hub might have the same friction as a chain drive, and might be comparable on weight.

What about a standard CVT belt drive? No gears involved at all. A single variable pulley on the crank, and another single variable pulley on the rear hub. That would be light and low on friction.

With all that being said... Cycling "technology" is a joke, and the companies selling it are a bunch of charlatans. I say this as I guy who spent years working in bike shops in high school and college, as well as racing. Then after that I went on to work in real industries with real technology.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Cycling "technology" is a joke, and the companies selling it are a bunch of charlatans.

Yes, indeed. And the bigger the company, the bigger the liars. Can't wait till the pomp and circumstance of trade show time so I can listen to salesmen with fake tans who haven't been on a bike since they were 14 try to tell me how this gizmo, or that gadget will revolutionize..., well, nothing.

Frictionless electromagnetic drives are where it's at, but that's light years away.

 

[St. Elia]

Except it really isn't the same. When 5 speed freewheels were around people welcomed the extra sprocket. The same goes for when 6 speed became the standard. However when 7 speed cassette/freehub systems had become the standard I didn't really hear anybody complaining about needing another sprocket.

So when 8 speed was introduced, it didn't really seem to be a big improvement to anybody. However, it was an even number, and it wasn't an absurd number so nobody really complained it was too many either.

Then they introduced 9 speed. Everybody I knew started to wonder, when is this all going to end. Then came ten speed. People started to say, enough already. It wasn't all that long ago that there were ten speeds on the whole bike, now we need ten speeds on the rear cluster?

Eleven speed is just a joke. The same goes for electric shifting.

I agree but what I meant to say was as far as compatibility is concerned we have the same problem as far as things working together. So when we upgraded from 8 to 9 we had to up grade chains and derailleurs and what not. It's the same now with campy 11, the same as Srams 10 speed for MTB and so on. Computer are similar, switched to Mac which is great but some windows stuff doesn't work or not as well. Anyway lots of examples in other industries where an upgrade is expensive.