Top 10 riders ever?

[Fowsto Cope-E]

10 GT's? which one did I miss?

5 Tours, 3 Giros, and 2 Veultas

 

[Echoes]

Echoes, that seems like a reasonable list. What poiint system are you using?

Hello Gcraenen, it's a ranking I've made a few years ago and I remember I didn't want to go further than 1989 (doping schandals + UCI reforms & too much work to do).

Looking back at my system I used, I find things that are quite weird, myself and that I can't really explain, so I'm open to criticism, really.

System for the 1891-1947 period

The numbers refer to the points for the winner; for 2 to 5; for 6 to 10 + for GT 11 to 15 & 16 to 20)

Tour de l'Ouest 2 1 1
A Travers Paris (but 1944) 3 1 1
Belgium (1910-1914) 12 5 3
Belgium (1919-1947) 2 1 1
Bol d'Or (1894-1919) 12 5 3
Bol d'Or (1924-1928) 2 1 1
Bordeaux-Paris (1891-1926) 14 6 3 2
Bordeaux-Paris (1927-1937) 9 4 2
Bordeaux-Paris (1938-1947) 4 2 1
Bordeaux-Paris-Bordeaux 24 10 6 4 3
Bruxelles-Paris 4 2 1
Bruxelles-Roubaix 2 1 1
Campania 2 1 1
Cataluña 2 1 1
Circuit d'Auvergne 1943 2 1 1
Circuit de Champagne (1923-1929) 4 2 1
Circuit des Champs de Batailles 16 8 4 3
Circuit de Paris (but 1941, 1942 et 1944) 4 2 1
Circuit du Midi Pro. (but 1942) 6 2 2
Circuit du Morbihan 4 2 1
Omloop der Vlaamse Gewesten 2 1 1
Critérium international cyclo-cross (but during WWII) 3 1 1
Emilia 2 1 1
Flèche wallonne 2 1 1
Giro 14 6 3 2
GP Armistice 2 1 1
GP des Alpes 1943 2 1 1
Schelde Prijs (1919-1947) 2 1 1
GP de la Loire 2 1 1
GP Marne/Paris-Metz (Individual ranking) 10 4 2
GP Nations (during WWII: OZ or NOZ) 4 2 1
GP Nations (but during WWII) 8 3 2
GP Wolber (1922-1926) 12 4 2
GP Wolber (1928-1931) 6 2 2
Gran Fondo 3 1 1
Leptis Magna 2 1 1
Liège Bastogne (1911-1947) 2 1 1
Lombardia (until 1921) 10 4 2
Lombardia (1922-1947) 6 2 2
Marseille-Paris 20 8 6 4 3
Milano Modena 2 1 1
Milano (both races when 2 editions) 2 1 0 (First 3 pairs only)
Milano-Torino 2 1 1
Monaco-Paris 6 2 2
Milano Sanremo (until 1921) 10 4 2
Milano Sanremo (1922-1947) 6 2 2
Omnium de la route 1942/1943 2 1 1
Paris-Brest-Paris 24 10 6 4 3
Paris-BXL (1907-1920) 10 4 2
Paris-BXL (1921-1947) 4 2 1
Paris-Dijon 1943/1944 2 1 1
Paris-Dinant (1894/1921 2 1 1
Paris-Liège 10 4 2
Paris-Lille 2 1 1
Paris-Longwy (1925-1929) 2 1 1
Paris-Menen (1910-1914) 10 4 2
Paris-Ménin (1926-1927) 2 1 1
Paris-Mons 10 4 2
Paris-Nantes-Caen-Rouen-Paris 20 8 6
Paris-Reims (1942-1943) 4 2 1
Paris-Rennes 6 2 2
Paris-Roubaix 12 5 3
Paris-Spa 10 4 2
Paris- St Etienne 2 1 1
Paris-St Malo 1894 12 5 3
Paris-Tours (but 1918 & 1941) 10 4 2
Paris-Tours 1918 2 1 1
Paris-Vichy 2 1 1
Piemonte 2 1 1
Rennes-Brest-Rennes 12 5 3
Romagna 2 1 1
Romagna Toscana 2 1 1
Rome Napoli Roma 2 1 1
Ronde de France 6 2 2
Rotterdam-Utrecht-R'dam 2 1 1
RVV (1922 to1925) 10 4 2
RVV (but from 1922 to 1925) 6 2 2
Toscana 2 1 1
Deutschland 2 1 1
Tour de France 20 8 6 4
Tour de Suisse (but 1942) 3 1 1
Tour de Suisse 1942 4 2 1
Tour du Hainaut 2 1 1
Pais Vasco (1935) 6 2 2
Pais Vasco (but 1935) 14 6 3 2
Tours-Paris 3 1 1
Tre Coppe 3 1 1
3 Zustersteden (1919-1924) 2 1 1
Trouville-Paris 1917/1918 4 2 1
Torino BXL 6 2 2
Veneto 2 1 1
Vuelta 1942 9 4 2
Zurich (jusque 1945) 2 1 1
Zurich (1946-1947) 3 1 1
World Championship 1927 9 4 2
World Championship (192 12 4 2
St. Belgium (1910-1914) 1
St Pais Vasco (1922-1930) 1
St Tour (1903-1924) 6
St Tour (1925-1947) 3
Mountain Tour 2
Mountain Giro 1
St Giro 1
St Circuit des champs de batailles 2
Hour Record 9 4 2 (4 points for an attempt that failed at less than 1km from the record , 2 points for an attempt at bt. 1 and 3km from the record)
Hour Record holding 1/year

1948 & beyond

The numbers refer to the points for the winner; for 2 to 5; for 6 to 10 + for GT 11 to 15 & 16 to 20)

3 Valli (1976-) 2 1 1
Agostoni (1966-) 3-1 1
Amstel Gold Race 3 1 1
Andalusia (196 2 1 1
Aude (1976-) 3 1 1
Baracchi 2 1 0 (3 premières paires)
Belgium 2 1 1
Bernocchi (1946-1965) 2 1 1
Bol d'Or 2 1 1
Bordeaux-Paris (1946-1970) 4 2 2
Bordeaux-Paris (1973-1988) 2 1 1
Cataluña 2 1 1
Campania (1946-1967) 2 1 1
Worlds 12 4 2
Omloop der Vlaamse Gewesten 2 1 1
Crit. International 3 1 1
Dauphiné 4 2 1
Dunkerque 2 1 1
E3 2 1 1
Emilia (1946-1955;1966-1975) 2 1 1
Schelde Prijs 2 1 1
Flèche wallonne 9 4 2
Brabantse Pijl 2 1 1
Frankfurt 3 1 1
Friuli (1976-) 2 1 1
Gent Wevelgem (until 1954) 2 1 1
Gand Wevelgem (1955-) 6 2 2
Giro 1951 to 1961 18 8 5 4 3
Giro (1950;1962-) 16 7 4 3 2
Giro until 1949 14 6 3 2
Haut Var (1976-) 2 1 1
Laigueglia 2 1 1
Lazio (1966-) 2 1 1
Liège (1951-) 9 4 2
Liège (1948-1950) 4 2 1
Lombardia 10 4 2
Lugano 2 1 0 (first 3 only)
Luxemburg 2 1 1
Martini 2 1 0 (3 premiers)
Midi Libre 3 1 1
Milano Sanremo (194 10 4 2
Milano Torino 2 1 1
Monaco-Paris 6 2 2
Nations GP (1946-1955) 8 3 2
Nations GP (1956-) 3 1 1
Pantalica (1976-) 2 1 1
Paris-Brest-Paris 10 4 2
Paris-Bruxelles (1946-1966) 6 2 2
Paris-Bruxelles (1973-) 4 2 1
Paris-Luxemburg 3 1 1
Paris-Nice 9 4 2
Paris-Roubaix 12 5 3
Paris-Tours 6 2 2
Piemonte (1946-1955) 2 1 1
Puglia (1972-1985) 2 1 1
Druivenkoers (1966-1975) 2 1 1
Romagna (1946-1955) 2 1 1
Romandie 4 2 1
Roma Napoli Roma 4 2 1
Ronde de France 6 2 2
Sardinia (1958-1975) 4 2 1
Sardinia (1976-1983) 2 1 1
Sassari Cagliari (1948-1965) 3 1 1
Settimana Catalana (1970-) 3 1 1
Tour de Suisse 4 2 1
Ticino 2 1 1
Tirreno Adriatico (1966-1975) 2 1 1
Tirreno Adriatico (1976-) 3 1 1
Toscana (1946-1955) 2 1 1
RvV 10 4 2
Tour de France 20 8 6 4 3
Trofeo Mediterraneo 2 1 1
3-daagse Antwerpen 2 1 1
Volk (1946-1965) 2 1 1
Volk (1966-) 4 2 1
Vuelta from 1955 9 4 2
Zurich 3 1 1
Hour Record (Broken;-1km;-3km) 9 4 2
Point Ranking Tour 1
Mountain Tour 2
Mountain Giro 1
Hour Record Holding 1/year
St Tour 3
St Giro 2
St Vuelta 1
European Champs Omnium 3 1 0 (First 3 only)
Other World/European Champs (track) 2 1 0 (First 3 only)
Critérium international Cyclo-cross 3 1 1
Worlds (cyclo-cross) 3 1 1

 

[Rb2112]

Can someone post prize money for 1st, 2nd & 3rd for all 3 GT and the 5 monuments? For this year (2010). Thanks, Rb

 

[Gcraenen]

5 Tours, 3 Giros, and 2 Veultas

Boy, a second grader could have done the math better then I did.
Guess that means you drop to 3rd on the list. Dont worry, you're still the highest ranked barber in history.

 

[Escarabajo]

Wasn't there a time that the Giro was just as important as the Tour by the way? I remember reading that somewhere.

I read/heard it somewhere also. Not even in equal terms. Maybe the Giro at some point in the past was more important, but I have nothing to support this. Maybe I have watched some cycling documentaries where I heard that.

 

[Carl0880]

The problem with great list and point systems is that not all finishes are equal. Example, Beloki finishes 3rd in 2001 Tour and 2nd in 2002 Tour. But he in all reality had very little factor on the race since Lance handily won those 2 races. In 2003, Ullrich and Vino finished 2nd and 3rd and had more factor on the outcome of that race then Beloki did in those 2 years combine. Maybe one day someone can factor a pts system based on relative time to the winner as in general the close you are in time to the winner the more of a factor you have been on the race. Its not a perfect solution, buts maybe helps a little bit more in accuracy. I think we all can agree that the '10 Schleck was more of a factor on the Tour results then the '09 Schleck, eventhough they finish in the same spot. The 10 Schleck was much closer to winning based on time then the 09 . The same for the 3rd place Menchov over Armstrong last year, and Menchov's time was 4 minutes closer.

 

[the3verB]

First, lets establish some criteria. 1 point for a win in a monument or world road race championship, 1 point for a TdF jersey, and 2 points for a grand tour victory? Or should we leave out the point for a jersey, just 2 points for the final victory? What about the cyclo cross world championship?

P.S.: The monuments are MSR, RvV, PR, LBL, PT, and Tour of Lombardia.First, lets establish some criteria. 1 point for a win in a monument or world road race championship, 1 point for a TdF jersey, and 2 points for a grand tour victory? Or should we leave out the point for a jersey, just 2 points for the final victory? What about the cyclo cross world championship?

Very interesting topic! It's a very subjective exercice and there is no exact or true list of the the best riders ( even if we can consider Mercxx as a unanimous number 1).

IMO the criteria don t respect the history of cycling. until 20 years ago, winning the Vuelta was not much better than winning the Dauphiné. The 3 Gt are NOT equal.

I would give: 6 pts for winning the Tour, 4 points for winning the giro, 3 for the vuelta, 2 for a Tour podium, 1 for a giro/vuelta podium. 3pts for the world, 2 for the monuments.

My list is:
1. Mercxx
2. Coppi ( 2 giri with 13 years interval)
3.hinault
4.Lance
5.Bartali

 

[ak-zaaf]

I read/heard it somewhere also. Not even in equal terms. Maybe the Giro at some point in the past was more important, but I have nothing to support this. Maybe I have watched some cycling documentaries where I heard that.

For Italians the Giro always is/was more important. After WW2 Coppi and Bartali were both GT competitors, if they both put the Giro ahead of the Tour it would automatically have made the Giro a more important race.
But in terms of popularity in Europe I think the Tour has always been ahead.

 

[Mich78BEL]

my own top 25:

1) Eddy Merckx
2) Bernard Hinault
3) Jacques Anquetil
4) Fausto Coppi
5) Sean Kelly
6) Gino Bartali
7) Alfredo Binda
8) Felice Gimondi
9) Lance Armstrong
10) Rik Van Looy

11) Francesco Moser
12) Roger De Vlaeminck
13) Miguel Indurain
14) Joop Zoetemelk
15) Louison Bobet
16) Tony Rominger
17) Laurent Jalabert
18) Raymond Poulidor
19) Freddy Maertens
20) Guiseppe Saronni
21) Ferdi Kübler
22) Eric Zabel
23) Jan Ullrich
24) Rik Van Steenbergen
25) Greg Lemond