Top 13 Nations in % of Pop. Most Overweight ....

[rhubroma]

The fact that the "the poor" (I dispute the modern definition of that) in developed countries eat at KFC/McDonald's is a testament to their lack of discipline, not poverty. So let's call it like it is and not blame capitalism. Sadly, capitalism also caters to anyone willing to be catered to, whether it's bad food or pornography, but no one is holding a gun to the consumer's head. The choice to consume is entirely the individual's. Making one's own healthy sandwich is still cheaper than buying fast food, so let's not use the moot point about how cheap fast food is. "The poor" in USA, etc. as a group are just fat and lazy. It's their choice, whether it's informed or not. We're not talking about the poor of our great grandparents, going hungry while waiting in line for employment, any employment. These people pay for DVD rentals and popcorn with their government handout money. That's hardly capitalism's fault. I will argue that the problem of obesity among "the poor" was non-existent until these free-market countries started to be highly "socialized". If anything, "the poor" are getting fat on the government dollar.

The bottom line is that obesity and poverty are polar opposites and anyone trying to associating one with the other is engaging in manipulation of public sentiments. Obesity among "the poor" always comes down to a lack of discipline. It takes discipline to stay fit, and it takes discipline to find and hold a job.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Do you really buy into your own BS, or are you just incredibly cynical? But to think that you believe you can take me for an a$$ only makes you a huge one. Nice try!

 

[usedtobefast]

The fact that the "the poor" (I dispute the modern definition of that) in developed countries eat at KFC/McDonald's is a testament to their lack of discipline, not poverty. So let's call it like it is and not blame capitalism. Sadly, capitalism also caters to anyone willing to be catered to, whether it's bad food or pornography, but no one is holding a gun to the consumer's head. The choice to consume is entirely the individual's. Making one's own healthy sandwich is still cheaper than buying fast food, so let's not use the moot point about how cheap fast food is. "The poor" in USA, etc. as a group are just fat and lazy. It's their choice, whether it's informed or not. We're not talking about the poor of our great grandparents, going hungry while waiting in line for employment, any employment. These people pay for DVD rentals and popcorn with their government handout money. That's hardly capitalism's fault. I will argue that the problem of obesity among "the poor" was non-existent until these free-market countries started to be highly "socialized". If anything, "the poor" are getting fat on the government dollar.

The bottom line is that obesity and poverty are polar opposites and anyone trying to associating one with the other is engaging in manipulation of public sentiments. Obesity among "the poor" always comes down to a lack of discipline. It takes discipline to stay fit, and it takes discipline to find and hold a job.

you are quite uninformed, i must say. discipline?...don't make me laugh.
you spout drivel.

 

[Anonymous]

It just goes to show you that when the capitalist-market rules model is applied to litteraly everything in our lives, including how we have been conditioned to buy and consume food, we die sooner.

<snipped>

Stuff to make you think...

I tried to ignore this. I really did.

Please back this up with something other than your opinion because historical mortality data (U.S., Global, children, sub-saharan...) does not support this claim.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

I tried to ignore this. I really did.

Please back this up with something other than your opinion because historical mortality data (U.S., Global, children, sub-saharan...) does not support this claim.

See an above post of mine. You WILL see a drop in life expectancy soon enough. Don't look to history for this one...open your peepers to the near future. It ain't gonna be pretty in the near future. Oddly enough...didn't Cuba pretty much just catch you in life expectancy? Third world communist country has life expectancy of world "superpower". Does that not give you pause?

 

[Hairy Wheels]

The fact that the "the poor" (I dispute the modern definition of that) in developed countries eat at KFC/McDonald's is a testament to their lack of discipline, not poverty. So let's call it like it is and not blame capitalism. Sadly, capitalism also caters to anyone willing to be catered to, whether it's bad food or pornography, but no one is holding a gun to the consumer's head. The choice to consume is entirely the individual's. Making one's own healthy sandwich is still cheaper than buying fast food, so let's not use the moot point about how cheap fast food is. "The poor" in USA, etc. as a group are just fat and lazy. It's their choice, whether it's informed or not. We're not talking about the poor of our great grandparents, going hungry while waiting in line for employment, any employment. These people pay for DVD rentals and popcorn with their government handout money. That's hardly capitalism's fault. I will argue that the problem of obesity among "the poor" was non-existent until these free-market countries started to be highly "socialized". If anything, "the poor" are getting fat on the government dollar.

The bottom line is that obesity and poverty are polar opposites and anyone trying to associating one with the other is engaging in manipulation of public sentiments. Obesity among "the poor" always comes down to a lack of discipline. It takes discipline to stay fit, and it takes discipline to find and hold a job.

Hmm...the kids I teach (as young as 5) who come to school with a bag of chips for lunch...or some filthy white sugar bread with baloney on it...those kids have no discipline eh? The fat little welfare rats...how dare they? Well, we can be sure they'll grow up to be thin, healthy members of society. The 12 year old with type-2, she's got a bright future ahead of her. Yes, those kids won't grow up to bring their kids to McD's daily...nope. Whole Foods and Trader Joes...nothing else.

You're clueless. You think a job just appears for anyone who wants it bad enough. Yeah, you've got angry white man syndrome alright....people taking your money to make a livable society that you enjoy the benefits of everyday. The injustice!

 

[Anonymous]

See an above post of mine. You WILL see a drop in life expectancy soon enough. Don't look to history for this one...open your peepers to the near future. It ain't gonna be pretty in the near future. Oddly enough...didn't Cuba pretty much just catch you in life expectancy? Third world communist country has life expectancy of world "superpower". Does that not give you pause?

So, in other words, the claim can't be backed up by data.

I wasn't looking for speculation. This is what was written;

"It just goes to show you that when the capitalist-market rules model is applied to litteraly everything in our lives, including how we have been conditioned to buy and consume food, we die sooner."

Now, the fact that we are not dying sooner kind of blows this statement out of the water.

 

[Oldman]

So, in other words, the claim can't be backed up by data.

I wasn't looking for speculation. This is what was written;

"It just goes to show you that when the capitalist-market rules model is applied to litteraly everything in our lives, including how we have been conditioned to buy and consume food, we die sooner."

Now, the fact that we are not dying sooner kind of blows this statement out of the water.

Well not entirely. Within the US borders are pockets of communities that practice restraint. Idaho Falls is home to a large 7th Day Adventist community and they tend to eat what's grown locally, avoid alchohol and generally have better community interaction. They live alot longer than the US average and it continues to improve.
Hasn't the life expectancy for the US male plateaued for some time? While there is no future "proof" of the affect of capitalism on lives (which sounds really stupid anyway as even the worst totalitarian/dictatorship societies have underground capitalist economies) the impact of ultra-refined food is something you as a cyclist would be hard pressed to dispute.

 

[Anonymous]

Well not entirely. Within the US borders are pockets of communities that practice restraint. Idaho Falls is home to a large 7th Day Adventist community and they tend to eat what's grown locally, avoid alchohol and generally have better community interaction. They live alot longer than the US average and it continues to improve.
Hasn't the life expectancy for the US male plateaued for some time? While there is no future "proof" of the affect of capitalism on lives (which sounds really stupid anyway as even the worst totalitarian/dictatorship societies have underground capitalist economies) the impact of ultra-refined food is something you as a cyclist would be hard pressed to dispute.

I'm not debating weather poor eating habits and crap food lead to obesity. Obesity has an impact on mortality; I'm not arguing that.

Mortality rates for U.S. Males contiue to decline. Probably due to better medicine, fewer smokers and better AIDS prevention/HIV management among other things.

I would like to see data showing capitalism causing a reduction in life span. A statement was made and I'm curious if there is data to back it up.

 

[rhubroma]

I tried to ignore this. I really did.

Please back this up with something other than your opinion because historical mortality data (U.S., Global, children, sub-saharan...) does not support this claim.

My dear Scott SoCal and it's been so long since we've had anything to discuss.

Your point is, as usual, misguided and based on a flawed critical position. I had previously mentioned (see above) that the capitalist society produces more food than it can possibly consume, resulting in literally tons and tons of excess which gets thrown into the garbage while the Third World continues to starve. This depends, and there is no opinion on this one, on a model of production which applies a capitalist-market logic that tries to achieve the largest possible supply accompanied by a steady, un-diminishing demand. This has lead to new food product "markets" created based entirely upon a low-cost/high consumption model that has resulted in our supermarkets being filled with an endless array of crapola in the form of high sugar-sodium-preservative snacks, soft drinks and such that are terrible for the organism and simply make us fat. It is not, therefore, surprising that society, as a whole, living under the capitalist regime which has now become a globalized phenomenon irrespective of the democratic, communist or dictatorial ideological environments because the market is transcendental; has become generally fatter than it was a century ago. Only someone living with their eyes shut and without memory would deny this.

The conspicuous consumption which exists throughout the consumer societies of the industrialized world, when this capitalist model is also applied to dietary and business-purchasing habits within the food market accompanied by the fact that we have all grown lazier with our machines and technologies means that we are becoming increasingly fatter. This is also statistically proven. In most societies, bar the truly desperate ones like those in sub-Sahara Africa, we are simply getting fatter Scott SoCal. Medical advances have, in the latter case, helped marginally with disease, but the poverty rates when assessed within the market economies have exponentially increased along with population growth and food and water shortages are wholly deplorable there considering the generated waste and poor resource management of the "advanced" societies. And this has been a by-product of capitalism too, like "fast food." Create and consume, throw away the excess, then start creating and consuming more without foresight or intelligence or common sense. All that matters is that we buy and consume, or else recession. So my original point about applying such a capitalist model to dietary habits resulting in us eating too much, poor quality and excessive quantity, a spin-off of which being the fast food industry with its consequences for health are quite valid points.

And where else, but in the capitalist America of the 1950's, could fast food have even been invented? In Stalanist Russia, Mao's China or De Gaulle's France? It is this "fast food" model (capitalist in ideology) of food production and consumption though, as if we should treat food with the same indifference as we do when it comes to producing and buying workout socks (a dozen at half price - even when two is all we need at the time), that an organization such as Slow Food vehemently opposes. In regards to the fact that we on average live longer than a century ago? But this is due to medicine more than having a copious food supply made possible by increased production methods and disposable income to purchase more which capitalism has guaranteed to more people than ever before (till now, at least). As mentioned before copious, given the crapola that they have invented to fill the supermarket iles, is often in fact what is the real problem. What you applaud as a benefit of modern industry and economics is, in reality, simply excess and unnecessary and has created a need for medicine to counteract the devastating effects in terms of diabetes, coronary, liver and other diseases such copiousness has inflicted upon our organism. So, yes, we live longer on average; though only by dint of being bombarded with pills and other medical treatments and procedures to stave off (we hope) that inevitable heart attack the "fast food culture" will eventually give us otherwise.

Point is capitalism has created a world of shameless excesses on the one hand, and shameful shortages on the other. Rampant obesity in the US and starvation in Africa. But keep holding on to your illusions.

 

[Anonymous]

My dear Scott SoCal and it's been so long since we've had anything to discuss.

Your point is, as usual, misguided and based on a flawed critical position. I had previously mentioned (see above) that the capitalist society produces more food than it can possibly consume, resulting in literally tons and tons of excess which gets thrown into the garbage while the Third World continues to starve. This depends, and there is no opinion on this one, on a model of production which applies a capitalist-market logic that tries to achieve the largest possible supply accompanied by a steady, un-diminishing demand. This has lead to new food product "markets" created based entirely upon a low-cost/high consumption model that has resulted in our supermarkets being filled with an endless array of crapola in the form of high sugar-sodium-preservative snacks, soft drinks and such that are terrible for the organism and simply make us fat. It is not, therefore, surprising that society, as a whole, living under the capitalist regime which has now become a globalized phenomenon irrespective of the democratic, communist or dictatorial ideological environments because the market is transcendental; has become generally fatter than it was a century ago. Only someone living with their eyes shut and without memory would deny this.

The conspicuous consumption which exists throughout the consumer societies of the industrialized world, when this capitalist model is also applied to dietary and business-purchasing habits within the food market accompanied by the fact that we have all grown lazier with our machines and technologies means that we are becoming increasingly fatter. This is also statistically proven. In most societies, bar the truly desperate ones like those in sub-Sahara Africa, we are simply getting fatter Scott SoCal. Medical advances have, in the latter case, helped marginally with disease, but the poverty rates when assessed within the market economies have exponentially increased along with population growth and food and water shortages are wholly deplorable there considering the generated waste and poor resource management of the "advanced" societies. And this has been a by-product of capitalism too, like "fast food." Create and consume, throw away the excess, then start creating and consuming more without foresight or intelligence or common sense. All that matters is that we buy and consume, or else recession. So my original point about applying such a capitalist model to dietary habits resulting in us eating too much, poor quality and excessive quantity, a spin-off of which being the fast food industry with its consequences for health are quite valid points.

And where else, but in the capitalist America of the 1950's, could fast food have even been invented? In Stalanist Russia, Mao's China or De Gaulle's France? It is this "fast food" model (capitalist in ideology) of food production and consumption though, as if we should treat food with the same indifference as we do when it comes to producing and buying workout socks (a dozen at half price - even when two is all we need at the time), that an organization such as Slow Food vehemently opposes. In regards to the fact that we on average live longer than a century ago? But this is due to medicine more than having a copious food supply made possible by increased production methods and disposable income to purchase more which capitalism has guaranteed to more people than ever before (till now, at least). As mentioned before copious, given the crapola that they have invented to fill the supermarket iles, is often in fact what is the real problem. What you applaud as a benefit of modern industry and economics is, in reality, simply excess and unnecessary and has created a need for medicine to counteract the devastating effects in terms of diabetes, coronary, liver and other diseases such copiousness has inflicted upon our organism. So, yes, we live longer on average; though only by dint of being bombarded with pills and other medical treatments and procedures to stave off (we hope) that inevitable heart attack the "fast food culture" will eventually give us otherwise.

Point is capitalism has created a world of shameless excesses on the one hand, and shameful shortages on the other. Rampant obesity in the US and starvation in Africa. But keep holding on to your illusions.

Vapid response lacking your usual eloquence and condescension. C-

BTW, you can't prove your assertion (capitalism = die sooner) with data can you?

Africa has challenges... mal-nutrition is certainly one. Political corruption is another. Sub Saharan countries with some concern for their citizens are making improvements, others aren't. Care to guess which Government is the worlds largest food donor and which system they use?

I'll hold on to my illusions until something better comes along but thanks for your concern.

 

[rhubroma]

Vapid response lacking your usual eloquence and condescension. C-

BTW, you can't prove your assertion (capitalism = die sooner) with data can you?

Africa has challenges... mal-nutrition is certainly one. Political corruption is another. Sub Saharan countries with some concern for their citizens are making improvements, others aren't. Care to guess which Government is the worlds largest food donor and which system they use?

I'll hold on to my illusions until something better comes along but thanks for your concern.

For one who expects to give grades, let's at least not confuse the arguments. D-

If you read carefully, which evidently you did not, then it was quite clear that I admitted that we live longer. Though that our model of production and consumption nevertheless is making us sicker as we age.

Image the trillions that would be saved in health costs if we simply ate better, not more. And this has been my point form the beginning.

I am well aware that US foreign aid to the Third World in food subsidies is tops on the planet. However in no way does this compensate for the excess which US capitalism has generated for itself, at the expense of the poor. Kinda like we'll gobble up 80% of the resources and then "relieve our consciences" by making claims to our so called immense humanitarian generosities. I've been to Africa sub-Sahara and so am not arrogant and foolish enough to make comments like yours. Yes, indeed, hold on to them for it's all you have to fall back upon when reality sets in.

 

[Anonymous]

For one who expects to give grades, let's at least not confuse the arguments. D-

If you read carefully, which evidently you did not, then it was quite clear that I admitted that we live longer. Though that our model of production and consumption nevertheless is making us sicker as we age.

Image the trillions that would be saved in health costs if we simply ate better, not more. And this has been my point form the beginning.

I am well aware that US foreign aid to the Third World in food subsidies is tops on the planet. However in no way does this compensate for the excess which US capitalism has generated for itself, at the expense of the poor. Kinda like we'll gobble up 80% of the resources and then "relieve our consciences" by making claims to our so called immense humanitarian generosities. I've been to Africa sub-Sahara and so am not arrogant and foolish enough to make comments like yours. Yes, indeed, hold on to them for it's all you have to fall back upon when reality sets in.

Arrogant and foolish. Interesting.

Arrogant and foolish by asking you to back up your assertions with facts?

I've been to Tijuana, it does not mean I know the systemic problems that result in families living in cardboard boxes.

Get over yourself.

 

[rhubroma]

Arrogant and foolish. Interesting.

Arrogant and foolish by asking you to back up your assertions with facts?

I've been to Tijuana, it does not mean I know the systemic problems that result in families living in cardboard boxes.

Get over yourself.

80% of the world's population controls 20% of the global resources. This is a fact.

20% of the worlds population controls 80% of the resources. This also is a fact.

Americans and Westerners continue to get fatter, while famine among the poorest countries continues to hold steady. Apart from just being self-evident everywhere on the streets, the dailies keep informing us of this with graph charts, statistics, etc., at least among the ones that I have access to. And where gains have been made they have only been marginal improvements, at nowhere near the proportions, however, that the fat keeps accumulating around the waists of the people in the developed world. In some areas the famine rates have even dramatically increased, especially in the war stricken sub-Sahara regions under dictatorial regimes that our multi-nationals do business with. Then our politicians either conveniently turn a blind eye or merely rhetorically denounce the situations, while planing along with the military apparatus to turn up the heat in the Mideast in the so called interests of freedom and democracy.

All of these grave issues can be linked, directly or indirectly, to capitalism in its present globalized form and therefore to all the business practices associated with global capitalism and also to the political leadership, the sole aim of which is to support this capitalist apparatus unconditionally and without reconsideration.

But we were discussing fat nations, Scott SoCal, which is why I originally pointed to Slow Food in Italy. Because I am all about conditional responses and reconsideration of a dietary model which I see as a spin-off of the capitalist way of production and consumption that fosters obesity as demonstrated by what is actually going on in Western Society.

I realize you are one of little imagination, Scott SoCal, but even I am thoroughly stupefied that, because of this, you have a desperate need to consult all the statistical evidence. I can only say rest assured Scott SoCal, the statistical evidence has also been gathered, and it only confirms that which for others is all too plain to see. Imagine that, Scott So Cal, by just waking up each day and taking a look at the world around them.

 

[Anonymous]

80% of the world's population controls 20% of the global resources. This is a fact.

20% of the worlds population controls 80% of the resources. This also is a fact.

Americans and Westerners continue to get fatter, while famine among the poorest countries continues to hold steady. Apart from just being self-evident everywhere on the streets, the dailies keep informing us of this with graph charts, statistics, etc., at least among the ones that I have access to. And where gains have been made they have only been marginal improvements, at nowhere near the proportions, however, that the fat keeps accumulating around the waists of the people in the developed world. In some areas the famine rates have even dramatically increased, especially in the war stricken sub-Sahara regions under dictatorial regimes that our multi-nationals do business with. Then our politicians either conveniently turn a blind eye or merely rhetorically denounce the situations, while planing along with the military apparatus to turn up the heat in the Mideast in the so called interests of freedom and democracy.

All of these grave issues can be linked, directly or indirectly, to capitalism in its present globalized form and therefore to all the business practices associated with global capitalism and also to the political leadership, the sole aim of which is to support this capitalist apparatus unconditionally and without reconsideration.

But we were discussing fat nations, Scott SoCal, which is why I originally pointed to Slow Food in Italy. Because I am all about conditional responses and reconsideration of a dietary model which I see as a spin-off of the capitalist way of production and consumption that fosters obesity as demonstrated by what is actually going on in Western Society.

I realize you are one of little imagination, Scott SoCal, but even I am thoroughly stupefied that, because of this, you have a desperate need to consult all the statistical evidence. I can only say rest assured Scott SoCal, the statistical evidence has also been gathered, and it only confirms that which for others is all too plain to see. Imagine that, Scott So Cal, by just waking up each day and taking a look at the world around them.

You wrote;

"It just goes to show you that when the capitalist-market rules model is applied to litteraly everything in our lives, including how we have been conditioned to buy and consume food, we die sooner."

I asked you to back this up with data (prove it). You can't. If you are going to make this declaration then please don't be upset if I'm not impressed when all you can offer as proof is high-browed ridicule.

Your argument above describes your world view and nothing more.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

I don't think it's worth debating Scott Socal too much. Chances are, the system he lives under has been pretty good to him, maybe really good. There is about an equal chance that he won't be critical of it. He hangs on to the fact that the problem of having a fat world caused by fat cats (capitalism!) hasn't hit the crisis point yet as proof that his beloved system is sound. It's useless debating him...though by all means...take a stab at it!

Having said that, I would like to ask Scott, why are we so fat then? Why has our food changed so much? We know it's not healthy, but what are the forces behind this change? We didn't ask for corn sweeteners in our bread, how did it get there? I'm serious, I'm not debating you, I want to know what a defender of capitalism thinks about the causes of something that they know exists.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's worth debating Scott Socal too much. Chances are, the system he lives under has been pretty good to him, maybe really good. There is about an equal chance that he won't be critical of it. He hangs on to the fact that the problem of having a fat world caused by fat cats (capitalism!) hasn't hit the crisis point yet as proof that his beloved system is sound. It's useless debating him...though by all means...take a stab at it!

Having said that, I would like to ask Scott, why are we so fat then? Why has our food changed so much? We know it's not healthy, but what are the forces behind this change? We didn't ask for corn sweeteners in our bread, how did it get there? I'm serious, I'm not debating you, I want to know what a defender of capitalism thinks about the causes of something that they know exists.

We already had the capitalism discussion on the politics thread.

I fully subscribe to the idea that capitalism is the least-worst system.

We are fat for numerous reasons. If you don't want corn sweetners in your bread then I assume you have the intellect to make your own, so why don't you? Imagine a scenario where like minded individuals might want bread without corn sweetner. You could make the bread and sell it at a profit because it is likely you would develop customers who don't want to make their own bread and would find it more convenient to buy it from you. See how this works?

I also assume you have the will to back away from the buffet line too.


I, for one, am thrilled that the capitalist system has provided enough incentive for savvy business folks to make available to me, for a profit, Belgian Beer (as an example). For, you see, I do not live in Belgium but I love their beer. In fact, I drink more than I should and it's probably not the most healthy thing I could do but I choose to drink it. My choice.

Now, it would not surprise me for someone who clearly knows better to dis-allow me to drink my Belgian Beer at some point in the future. I hope I don't live to see that day, but who knows?



Okay, that was fairly sarcastic. I don't have a quarrel with you. I just think you are attacking this problem from the wrong end and to simply blame capitalism is, frankly, intellectually lazy.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

We already had the capitalism discussion on the politics thread.

I fully subscribe to the idea that capitalism is the least-worst system.

We are fat for numerous reasons. If you don't want corn sweetners in your bread then I assume you have the intellect to make your own, so why don't you? Imagine a scenario where like minded individuals might want bread without corn sweetner. You could make the bread and sell it at a profit because it is likely you would develop customers who don't want to make their own bread and would find it more convenient to buy it from you. See how this works?

I also assume you have the will to back away from the buffet line too.


I, for one, am thrilled that the capitalist system has provided enough incentive for savvy business folks to make available to me, for a profit, Belgian Beer (as an example). For, you see, I do not live in Belgium but I love their beer. In fact, I drink more than I should and it's probably not the most healthy thing I could do but I choose to drink it. My choice.

Now, it would not surprise me for someone who clearly knows better to dis-allow me to drink my Belgian Beer at some point in the future. I hope I don't live to see that day, but who knows?



Okay, that was fairly sarcastic. I don't have a quarrel with you. I just think you are attacking this problem from the wrong end and to simply blame capitalism is, frankly, intellectually lazy.

In many places in the US (and I have raced pretty much in every state!) you can't buy bread without corn sweeteners. That's an issue. If you don't believe me, go to rural West Virginia...I've never been to a place where ALL of the food had sweeteners...except the meat...but then you'd put some sauce on it and bam, there's your sweetener.

I think people like me need to be a little more clear. I don't have an issue with the basic idea of capitalism. After all, I like the occasional Belgium beer myself. Capitalism has many forms, and the one that pumps corn sugar into bread has gone off the rails.

I live in Canada, in many ways like the US, but without a lot of the rhetoric. I can only buy one type of bread in my local market that doesn't have any sweetener in it. One. And it has be rye or pumpernickel. I shop at a market for affluent people because I'm relatively affluent. What do you think it's like at the "other" supermarkets? People that have to shop there (they walk to get there...or scoot on their fat people scooters) have to buy bread like that. No choice.

If you live in South Cal like your name implies, you live in a pretty segregated place. I've spent a fair amount of time there over the years. I was amazed at the difference b/t Palm Springs and Indio. It was shocking to me, I had not seen that level of disparity in the US before. The funny thing was, I spoke with people in Palm Springs who had NEVER been to Indio...only 10k away or something. It's kinda hard to see the full range of experiences people face when your reality is so separate and 'above' those others.

Sarcasm, being the lowest form of humour, would be comedic laziness. Even then?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Guys, take it easy okay? This conversation started out pretty good, but didn't need to be dragged down entirely into politics.

I'd say there are numerous reasons for this. One we didn't discuss is the fast paced lifestyle so many live - often by necessity, and convenient food (fast food, junk, etc.) facilitating that. I don't know that I'd agree on cost, but it certain takes longer to prepare a healthy meal at home from whole foods than it does to toss something in the microwave, or drive to the local fast foods restaurant and go through the drive-thru. Same as it takes longer (for most people) to ride their bike or walk to work, than it does to drive.

Another topic I'd suggest is advertising catering to the fast paced lifestyle, and to "taste".

Anyone here old enough to remember the 1960's and beyond when there would be days at the supermarket with food shortages? Not huge shortages, as in Soviet type food lines, but days you couldn't get bread, or milk for example, or entire seasons when you couldn't get some fruit or vegetables at all.

Highly recommend a very good non-political film on farming called King Corn. If you have Netflix you can stream it for free. Very good interview in there with former Agriculture Secretary Earl Butts talking about how he doesn't apologize for changing laws to allow massive corn growth on farms, even if it included making of corn syrup and filler, as it eliminated food shortages.

 

[rhubroma]

You wrote;

"It just goes to show you that when the capitalist-market rules model is applied to litteraly everything in our lives, including how we have been conditioned to buy and consume food, we die sooner."

I asked you to back this up with data (prove it). You can't. If you are going to make this declaration then please don't be upset if I'm not impressed when all you can offer as proof is high-browed ridicule.

Your argument above describes your world view and nothing more.

Blockhead is honestly the first thing which came to my mind when I read this.

Here, unfortunately, I'm speaking from personal experience: and thus through my family members and the family members of family members and the family members of friends and their friends family members, etcetera: all of whom had passed away prematurely, even if having perhaps lived longer in some instances (though definitely not in all cases) than they would have a century ago, or, in any case, than they should have in our age due to weight and dietary issues. Heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, liver malfunctions, circulatory disease, blood disease, pulmonary infections and other illnesses - all of which can definitely be linked to what and how they had eaten all there lives. Nearly all of them to a man, had serious weight problems and had been taking medication for years before their organisms simply caved in to disease.

In Italy there has been much more published about this then as far as I can tell in America. Especially because the Italians are very conscious of what goes in and critical of the way Americans eat and the diseases it causes for the American people; which is perceived as linked to its economic model of production and conspicuous consumption. In America the pharmaceutical industry appears to be the first recourse to finding a solution, despite all the talk of dietary changes, whereas in Italy its more food related, the causus causarum. Italians, who, by the way, are also getting fatter and are quite alarmed by it, though have at least been less affected because of their ancient traditions. And this is not political so much as it is cultural and anthropological.

My world view is thus based upon both personal knowledge and experience and the many articles I have come across over the years. So once again you seem rather thick-headed in being blinded by ideology which doesn't allow you, Scott SoCal, to see the elephant sitting in your living room. But this is so typical of your world view, Scott SoCal, because to think otherwise would be too traumatic, upsetting and potentially do you in. Everything that comes out of your head because of this can only be described as narrow-minded, unapproachable, stubborn, deceitful and treacherous. And probably from a very young age you became an indolent person, Scott SoCal, who feigned activity, though in reality are inactivity personified. And you most likely were always seeking to win your teacher's approval, though were less interested in widening your knowledge. Whereas my teachers disliked me because they always found me intractable, yet they loved you because you were so uncomplicated. You did whatever you were told and never rebelled, whereas I rebelled almost every day and so incurred the hostility of the teachers.

 

[redtreviso]

and may I add

Tea parties are for little girls with imaginary friends..

 

[Anonymous]

Blockhead is honestly the first thing which came to my mind when I read this.

Here, unfortunately, I'm speaking from personal experience: and thus through my family members and the family members of family members and the family members of friends and their friends family members, etcetera: all of whom had passed away prematurely, even if having perhaps lived longer in some instances (though definitely not in all cases) than they would have a century ago, or, in any case, than they should have in our age due to weight and dietary issues. Heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, liver malfunctions, circulatory disease, blood disease and other illnesses - all of which can definitely be linked to what and how they had eaten all there lives. Nearly all of them to a man, had serious weight problems and had been taking medication for years before their organisms simply caved in to disease.

In Italy there has been much more published about this then as far as I can tell in America. Especially because the Italians are very conscious of what goes in and critical of the way Americans eat and the diseases it causes for the American people; which is perceived as linked to its economic model of production and conspicuous consumption. In America the pharmaceutical industry appears to be the first course to finding a solution, despite all the talk of dietary changes, whereas in Italy its more food related, the causus causarum. Italians, who, by the way, are also getting fatter and are quite alarmed by it, though have at least been less affected because of their ancient traditions. And this is not political so much as it is cultural and anthropological.

My world view is thus based upon both personal knowledge and experience and the many articles I have come across over the years. So once again you seem rather thick-headed in being blinded by ideology which doesn't allow you, Scott SoCal, to see the elephant sitting in your living room. But this is so typical of your world view, Scott SoCal, because to think otherwise would be too traumatic, upsetting and potentially do you in. Everything that comes out of your head because of this can only be described as narrow-minded, unapproachable, stubborn, deceitful and treacherous. And probably from a very young age you became an indolent person, Scott SoCal, who feigned activity, though in reality are inactivity personified. And you most likely were always seeking to win your teacher's approval, though were less interested in widening your knowledge. Whereas my teachers disliked me because they always found me intractable, yet they loved you because you were so uncomplicated. You did whatever you were told and never rebelled, whereas I rebelled almost every day and so incurred the hostility of the teachers.

Three more paragraphs dancing around the fact that you can't back your statement up.

You know these issues have many root causes yet you are so invested in your anti-Capitalist posture you can't admit the truth to yourself much less to a public forum. It really limits your thinking, which used to surprise me given your profession.

Your last paragraph is telling. You accuse and project onto others exactly what you do and are. It's just part of your nature I suppose. I never fit in at school. I don't go with the flow. But you do.

Deep down, you don't appreciate a Capitalist system because it's hard. People are expected to perform and that bothers you. It's just so much easier to depend on the charity of some central government.

Your position bores me.

 

[redtreviso]

John Gault's lost son....LOL

 

[Anonymous]

John Gault's lost son....LOL

Ssuupp Red... still hot in Texas? It's been boiling in Cali.

 

[TRDean]

09-25-10 11:19 AM | "soaring obesity rates make the US the fattest country in the OECD." More alarmingly, the problem of obesity in the U.S. is not limited to adults:

1) Mexico - 69.5 %

2) USA - 68 %

3) New Zealand - 62.6 %

4) Australia - 61.4 %

5) U.K. - 61.4 %

6) Ireland - 61 %

7) Iceland - 60.2 %

8) Canada - 60 %

9) Chile - 59.7 %

10) Greece - 58.9 %

11) Slovenia - 55.1 %

12) Luxembourg - 54.8 %

13) Spain - 54.8 %

Source Read Report: [http://huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/25/worlds-highest-obesity-ra]

Report by Nation: [http://www.oecd.org/document]


What do You think ?

You guys all make me laugh...the 13 countries listed in the table are all well above 50% obesity!! So as much as you would like to throw capitalism out as the cause, or laziness, or whatever, it appears that no country has a outright monopoly on fat citizens.

 

[redtreviso]

Ssuupp Red... still hot in Texas? It's been boiling in Cali.

Been in the low 80s here.. A few years ago it hit 109 in april..100 one day and then 109 the next then back to normal 80s for april.. I assume your temps will normalize in a day or two. Good thing ENRON(R) is gone eh? The boys down in Houston might let aunt Millie roast..