Top 13 Nations in % of Pop. Most Overweight ....

[rhubroma]

You guys all make me laugh...the 13 countries listed in the table are all well above 50% obesity!! So as much as you would like to throw capitalism out as the cause, or laziness, or whatever, it appears that no country has a outright monopoly on fat citizens.

Nope all developed nations, or with important resources.

 

[rhubroma]

Three more paragraphs dancing around the fact that you can't back your statement up.

You know these issues have many root causes yet you are so invested in your anti-Capitalist posture you can't admit the truth to yourself much less to a public forum. It really limits your thinking, which used to surprise me given your profession.

Your last paragraph is telling. You accuse and project onto others exactly what you do and are. It's just part of your nature I suppose. I never fit in at school. I don't go with the flow. But you do.

Deep down, you don't appreciate a Capitalist system because it's hard. People are expected to perform and that bothers you. It's just so much easier to depend on the charity of some central government.

Your position bores me.

You are the worst type of conformist, because you don't even realize your conformity and wholly believe in your own propaganda: an insipid concoction of inane and thoroughly banal statements like capitalism is the best of the worst systems. Amen. If that's not boring, I'm a world class flabbergaster! No room for elaboration, no margin for critique, just take it or leave it. Amen.

Naturally all that counts for your world is performance, as if no other previous civilization has ever performed. The entire weight of civilization amounts to nothing in your world, since it can't be reckoned within your very limited and finite concept of performance, which is entirely economic in outlook. All the monuments and buildings in our cities, all the cultural artifacts in our museums and literary culture in our libraries were merely the fruits of societies which had too much time on their hands! Thus human beings aren't measured in terms of their human worth, nor in terms of the spirit, of the artistic and philosophical that they posses; but only by measurement of their raw productivity, at which market value can be calculated for their efforts. Calculated, underlined. Your world frightens me with its Orwellian mechanisms.

Yet it this tremendous weight of civilization, Scot SoCal, that is precisely that responsibility for which future generations will hold us accountable. Not how we performed, but what we created. And it seems to me that we have given birth to a monster, though the master's of the universe tell us we have in reality created a tremendous work of art, Scot SoCal, the likes of which this world and this civilization has never before seen. A truly colossal masterpiece! Scot SoCal. Never mind what the heretics preach.

However it the heresy of happy downsizing and moderation in this capitalist driven world, that may in the long term be the only salvific option we, as a civilization, have. Until then I'm afraid obesity rates and the diseases it causes will continue to be the worst epidemic we know in this age of good and plenty.

 

[Anonymous]

You are the worst type of conformist, because you don't even realize your conformity and wholly believe in your own propaganda: an insipid concoction of inane and thoroughly banal statements like capitalism is the best of the worst systems. Amen. If that's not boring, I'm a world class flabbergaster! No room for elaboration, no margin for critique, just take it or leave it. Amen.

Naturally all that counts for your world is performance, as if no other previous civilization has ever performed. The entire weight of civilization amounts to nothing in your world, since it can't be reckoned within your very limited and finite concept of performance, which is entirely economic in outlook. All the monuments and buildings in our cities, all the cultural artifacts in our museums and literary culture in our libraries were merely the fruits of societies which had too much time on their hands! Thus human beings aren't measured in terms of their human worth, nor in terms of the spirit, of the artistic and philosophical that they posses; but only by measurement of their raw productivity, at which market value can be calculated for their efforts. Calculated, underlined. Your world frightens me with its Orwellian mechanisms.

Yet it this tremendous weight of civilization, Scot SoCal, that is precisely that responsibility for which future generations will hold us accountable. Not how we performed, but what we created. And it seems to me that we have given birth to a monster, though the master's of the universe tell us we have in reality created a tremendous work of art, Scot SoCal, the likes of which this world and this civilization has never before seen. A truly colossal masterpiece! Scot SoCal. Never mind what the heretics preach.

However it the heresy of happy downsizing and moderation in this capitalist driven world, that may in the long term be the only salvific option we, as a civilization, have. Until then I'm afraid obesity rates and the diseases it causes will continue to be the worst epidemic we know in this age of good and plenty.

My comment was "capitalism is the least worst system" (If you are going to quote me at least get it correct). That is a boring statement and, while not world class, as a flabbergaster you hold your own.

I've been looking through all of the words you write for a footnote or reference to substantiate your assertion that capitalism causes people to die sooner. We are about three pages in our little tete a tete yet I see nothing but the observations of a well educated acedemic who has an opinion without data. I have tons of opinions without data to support them. I just don't usually try and argue them with others because it's usually embarassing not to be able to back up a declaration.

Yet I don't sense much embarassment with you... just an annoying arroagnce that comes with an advanced case of superiority complex.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Rhubroma and Scott SoCal - I made one post asking that you stop with the direct political debate, and stick to the subject at hand, and even gave directions to possibly take the conversation, and you both immediately ignored me and picked up the fight right where you left off. As such, I deleted a few of your posts. Next one of you who tears into the other person for their political views gets an infraction. Got it?

 

[Oldman]

You guys all make me laugh...the 13 countries listed in the table are all well above 50% obesity!! So as much as you would like to throw capitalism out as the cause, or laziness, or whatever, it appears that no country has a outright monopoly on fat citizens.

Scott doesn't need help arguing but you'll note that Mexico and Ireland are high on the list. Neither population is queing up to the local McDonald's because there aren't as many there. Cultural dietary and social habits play a big part in obesity. I don't think I'll get much of an argument that the increase in childhood internet activity vs. excercise is largely to blame in the US. The cultural upshot is that capitalist society has parents that are either overworked or don't care enough to prepare food. They just buy prepared food.

 

[usedtobefast]

corn sweetener is just sugar, sugar is not the worst thing you can have in your diet. too much of anything is why folks gain weight. calories in/calories out.
dietary fat is much more calorie dense and most snacks have a lot of it,along with the salt to keep you eatin' those fried snacks.

 

[roundabout]

You guys all make me laugh...the 13 countries listed in the table are all well above 50% obesity!! So as much as you would like to throw capitalism out as the cause, or laziness, or whatever, it appears that no country has a outright monopoly on fat citizens.

The table doesn't show obesity rather it shows the percentage of overweight and obese. The page doesn't seem to load for me right now but the actual percentage of obese (as in BMI >30) is about 30% for countries like USA and Mexico as far as i can remember.

 

[pedaling squares]

Went to an NFL game yesterday in Seattle, allegedly a fitter, better educated US city. Our seats where very high up and required alot of climbing and still cost $80/seat. Nothing about the amount of excercise (to get to the seats) or cost of attendance changed the fact that well over 50% of the fans were fat. Attending a MSL Soccer match had a completely different fan profile of 20-30 hipster wannabes and they were much, much thinner.
I got no answer.

I bet the answer lies in the tailgate party menu.

The fact that the "the poor" (I dispute the modern definition of that) in developed countries eat at KFC/McDonald's is a testament to their lack of discipline, not poverty...

kb took a lot of heat for that post but there is some accuracy in the content. I'm strongly disagree that poor + fat = lazy but there is truth to the notion that one can eat healthier and cheaper by preparing food for oneself instead of hitting the take-out shacks. Now, whether there are enough hours in the day for a parent who commutes by public transit, works, then returns home to work at child care and food preparation is another story. And to respond to the teacher, it's hard to blame the kid who is raised on junk food. I don't find that obesity is linked closely to economics where I live. There are sadly too many obese people at all s/e strata including the very wealthy. But to dismiss kb's opinion outright is a case of living with the blinders on.

 

[rhubroma]

Rhubroma and Scott SoCal - I made one post asking that you stop with the direct political debate, and stick to the subject at hand, and even gave directions to possibly take the conversation, and you both immediately ignored me and picked up the fight right where you left off. As such, I deleted a few of your posts. Next one of you who tears into the other person for their political views gets an infraction. Got it?

What censorship! So lame. You just saved me a big waste of time. Ciao.

"The truth is always revolutionary." Antonio Gramsci

 

[Polyarmour]

The Executive Summary of the OECD report lists the reasons for the increase in obesity as follows.

1/. The price of calories fell dramatically due to technology and better farming practices.
2/. Convenience foods became available everywhere.
3/. The time available for traditional meal preparation from raw ingredients fell.
4/. Decreased physical activity at work.
5/. Increased participation by women in the workplace.
6/. More stress, job insecurity, longer work hours
7/. Agricultural subsidies and tax incentives (presumably making food cheaper)
8/. Transport policies favouring the car.
9/. Urban planning that leaves little opportunity for exercise

So not just one reason but the complex interaction of a number of factors. Of the 9 factors they mentioned perhaps something can be done with 3 of them from a government perspective. The rest we have to live with as the world has moved on. The 3 that maybe we can do something about are:

a) Convenience foods. Many European countries restrict the proliferation of fast food outlets and many of those countries have a better record on obesity.
b) Transport policies favouring the car. More bike tracks , more car free zones, fewer billion dollar freeways and tunnels.
c) Urban Planning. More green zones, more bike tracks , more sports facilities, more walking areas.

Edit: Maybe something can be done with allowing more time to prepare proper meals too but this would be a personal decision not a government one.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I hope the USA is number 1 in something..if we work hard we can pull ahead of Mexico

They are number one in the art form of bull****ting!

 

[Paco_P]

I wonder how well all this correlates with car use. Folks that never walk or bike anywhere get fat. I suspect this makes a hell of a lot more difference than what one eats.

 

[Paco_P]

They are number one in the art form of bull****ting!

Also #1 in self-esteem.

 

[Polyarmour]

I wonder how well all this correlates with car use. Folks that never walk or bike anywhere get fat. I suspect this makes a hell of a lot more difference than what one eats.

I agree, exercise is THE differentiator. In New York people walk a lot more and the difference to other parts of the US is marked.

 

[flyor64]

I saw this poster and it made me think of this thread...

 

[Boeing]

I h ave never understood why the French are so skinny

 

[simo1733]

I wonder how well all this correlates with car use. Folks that never walk or bike anywhere get fat. I suspect this makes a hell of a lot more difference than what one eats.

I agree with the walking theory. I do a lot of walking in my job.I have seen a lot of my colleagues change to a sit down job and immediately put on weight.Interestingly i have observed that many of them also stopped using the stairs and started using the lift.It seems that their reduced physical stress has made them lazy.

 

[Hillavoider]

I h ave never understood why the French are so skinny

good diet and a society that derides fat

unlike australia crap diet, crap views of life style, and laziness and hating healthy people is national sport.

 

[ruamruam]

I h ave never understood why the French are so skinny

Diet is changing in France. I visit France a lot and a greater proportion of French children are getting heavier.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Diet is changing in France. I visit France a lot and a greater proportion of French children are getting heavier.

Interesting. I wonder whether this is something occurring despite parents' best efforts, or whether parents forgive in their children what they won't forgive in themselves. I have the impression that in France there is huge social pressure to not be fat. (And not just France, other European nations too.)

Whereas in Australia it's quite acceptable, and people's notions of what constitutes "fat" seem to have changed significantly in the past 20 or so years, in favour of additional weight, of course.

@Polyarmour, thanks for your post itemising causal factors. Very interesting.

 

[Polyarmour]

@Polyarmour, thanks for your post itemising causal factors. Very interesting.

You are welcome.

As a post script to the causal factors the OECD report mentioned that they were all inter-related and affecting each other. For example the price of calories comes down which enables fast food outlets to spring up which increases demand of certain products and allows economies of scale and farming technology to further lower the price of calories etc.

I remember when I was younger (40 years ago) my parents were very careful about paying too much for food. They would shop all over the place to get the best deal because food was expensive. Now most of us get everything from the one supermarket. Calories are now so cheap that even Mexicans are fat.

The fast food outlets mean that food is never very far away. I call it the smorgasbord effect. When it's all laid out in front of you in a smorgasbord you always overeat. Food is never very far away now. If you get hungry there is always an outlet you can hit for a refuel somewhere and this has contributed to obesity. As a kid I remember food being more difficult to come by. If you got hungry you usually stayed that way until you got home.