Top 5 GT Riders: Order & Discussion

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Quintana's results aren't much above Uran? WTF?

Best young rider AND best climber AND 2nd in TDF (all the same edition). And Giro winner..
vs 2 times 2nd in Giro Uran.

Quintana is miles and miles above Uran.
Seems like you just dislike Quintana. I cannot see your point any other way

 

[damian13ster]

Quintana's results aren't much above Uran? WTF?

Best young rider AND best climber AND 2nd in TDF (all the same edition). And Giro winner..
vs 2 times 2nd in Giro Uran.

Quintana is miles and miles above Uran.
Seems like you just dislike Quintana. I cannot see your point any other way

Giro winner * That stuff with all the lies after Stelvio stage always will put a * next to that win. Yeah, because a 2 2nd places in GT are so much worse than 1 2nd place and 1 questionable win (which would turn Uran's 2nd place into a win).

Yes, I do dislike him since he lied, but I am just comparing those two based on other stages (outside of Stelvio) in Giro and Quintana wasnt impressive compared to what was considered a very weak field, and Uran was doing great job at minimizing the losses making it hard to imagine that he couldnt hold on to the 3:30 lead

 

[hfer07]

never noticed this thread until now, so here is my opinion:

Contador: Even if his last GT was won 2 years ago, he remains the rider with most titles of his generation. He still has the shape to conquer a couple GTs before he declines

Nibali : Got the Triple. What more can be said about the Shark? I believe two or three more GT are attainable.

Froome (AKA The Alien): Won his 1st GT last year in a rather "exaggerating" fashion as far as performance is concerned-however- This year his form has diminishes in a way that could be seen as a sign of an early decline, adding that his competition is getting better &/or matching his level, so will be interesting in the next years to see if Chris can win his second title at all....

Quintana : My compatriot just won his 1st GT at 24 y.o. Let's simply say his future is extremely brilliant


.. apart from these 4, there aren't any top GT winners to look up to......

 

[lenric]

Its just an opinion based thread. Quintana's GT results arent much above Uran's, and all of you claiming he is best climber, much better than others, would win by a huge margin anyway, those are all assumptions. And they don't even have much to support them because there were 4-5 other MTF in that race and Quintana wasnt dominant on any. And a claim that he just didnt want to win in a dominant fashion is just stupid. I am basing my opinion on cold-hard facts. If I was to field a team for GT now, I would choose Uran over Quintana in most of the parcours. Situation might be different 1-2 years from now, but at this point this is where I stand.

And your would have......, could have....... frankly, I dont care about that.

And yes, we were all surprised by how Uran improved in TT for this Giro, but he DID improve and he DID put minutes into Quintana on a hilly TT.

For ****'s sake, another Uran sucker. Uran isn't even targetted to the GC when guys like Contador, Nibbles, Froome or Quintana ride.

 

[ILovecycling]

Giro winner * That stuff with all the lies after Stelvio stage always will put a * next to that win. Yeah, because a 2 2nd places in GT are so much worse than 1 2nd place and 1 questionable win (which would turn Uran's 2nd place into a win).

Yes, I do dislike him since he lied, but I am just comparing those two based on other stages (outside of Stelvio) in Giro and Quintana wasnt impressive compared to what was considered a very weak field, and Uran was doing great job at minimizing the losses making it hard to imagine that he couldnt hold on to the 3:30 lead

Lol,any of us dont have a fvcking clue what he knew or didnt.
You are probably one of those members due to that stage 16 thread had 250 pages or how many...so I think it was discussed enough,that stage.
I think you overreacted over his 'lie' and his not 'deserved' win.

never noticed this thread until now, so here is my opinion:

Contador: Even if his last GT was won 2 years ago, he remains the rider with most titles of his generation. He still has the shape to conquer a couple GTs before he declines

Nibali : Got the Triple. What more can be said about the Shark? I believe two or three more GT are attainable.

Froome (AKA The Alien): Won his 1st GT last year in a rather "exaggerating" fashion as far as performance is concerned-however- This year his form has diminishes in a way that could be seen as a sign of an early decline, adding that his competition is getting better &/or matching his level, so will be interesting in the next years to see if Chris can win his second title at all....

Quintana : My compatriot just won his 1st GT at 24 y.o. Let's simply say his future is extremely brilliant


.. apart from these 4, there aren't any top GT winners to look up to......

It was opened only yesterday

 

[SafeBet]

Do you have something against Quintana? Nairo destroyed al his opponents since L'Avenir 2010, where he beat riders like Kelderman, Bardet like they were 3rd-rate climbers.

Uran however, had needed 6 years to actually finish 2nd in a Giro with horrible competition (2013). In the Giro of this year, he lost big time on Quintana on Monte Grappa. A mountain TT reflects climbing capacities at his best.

Uran lost time to the likes of Kelderman, Pozzovivo and Aru on the final climb of Val Martello. We're not talking about Quintana, but about riders who are a class below Quintana when it comes to real climbing. And even on them, Uran loses time. So it shows that Uran is pretty weak when it comes to real climbing.

How do you come to the fact Uran destroys Quintana in ITT's? Have you look at the profile of the Barolo TT in the Giro? That was more of a TT a la Chorges (Tour 2013), with two hard climbs in it. In normal flat TT's, Uran isn't brilliant, and isn't way better then Quintana.

Uran took time on all other riders bar Quintana on Zoncolan though, so your assumption that he's a weak climber is plain wrong.

Also you're bringing his TTs from the past as a proof of him not being that good of a TTer while it's really clear to everybody that he improved a lot in that department this year. Not only at the Giro.

Is he a better GT rider than Quintana? No. But you're truly underestimating him here. Not a flashy rider, but a very solid and consistent one. I'm really looking forward to see him ride the Tour next year.

 

[Afrank]

Giro winner * That stuff with all the lies after Stelvio stage always will put a * next to that win. Yeah, because a 2 2nd places in GT are so much worse than 1 2nd place and 1 questionable win (which would turn Uran's 2nd place into a win).

Yes, I do dislike him since he lied, but I am just comparing those two based on other stages (outside of Stelvio) in Giro and Quintana wasnt impressive compared to what was considered a very weak field, and Uran was doing great job at minimizing the losses making it hard to imagine that he couldnt hold on to the 3:30 lead

* for weak competition.
* for an organizer mistake on one stage.

Jeez, can't we just let results stand for once? Sometimes weather plays a factor, sometimes contenders crash out, sometimes mistakes are made. These things happen, the racers don't dwell on them, they accept what happened and move on. We fans should do the same IMO. And even with guys crashing out or organizers making mistakes, I think we would find the strongest still rose to the top.

Quintana would have definitely won even without Stelvio as well. He took about 20 seconds on stage 14, about 20 more on 15. Stage 16 with the Stelvio incident Quintana continued to take time the whole way up the climb (says to me he probably would have taken a nice big chunk of time anyways). He proceeded to take 1:26 in the uphill TT. The way Uran was climbing demonstrates for me that he didn't have the climbing form to match Quintana, and would have lost pink to him sooner or later. And after Stage 16 Quintana had a decent gap so rode within himself for much of the rest of the race.

Re bolded: on paper they look equal. But one should look at how those results were achieved and the races they were achieved in.

-Quintana's 2nd came in the Tour against guys like Contador and Rodriguez. Some of the best riders in the world. Quintana also took a stage (the final MTF stage) and polka dot. And this is all at only 23 years old. Further more Quintana spent the entire race attacking.
-Uran's 2nd came in the Giro against guys like Evans and Scarponi; 2 guys who most regard as on their way out. Uran also took a win of course (just under halfway into 2nd week), IMO that win was nearly as impressive as Quintanas though. And I can't recall Uran attacking as much as Quintana did in the Tour.

And if you look at the results each have gotten in all the GT's they've competed in, Quintana continue to look better then Urans.
Uran: 51, 32, 35, 23, 7, 29, 2, 2.
Quintana: 32, 2, 1.

Based on that I would rate Quintanas GT palmares as much better to Urans. Further more Quintana's a rising talent, and those palmares are only going to get better. But I'd take Quintana's current GT palmares over Uran's any day.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Currently...
1. Nibali
2. Quintana
3. Froome
4. Uran
5. Horner

 

[ILovecycling]

Currently...
1. Nibali
2. Quintana
3. Froome
4. Uran
5. Horner

Only if Contador rides with one tibia.

Edit: very good post by afrank,but its not that rare from him

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Only if Contador rides with one tibia.

For him to make my top 5 GT riders I'd have to go back to over 3 years ago. Maybe he'll do something to get in my top 5 next year.

 

[cainjb94]

I think there are categories.

The big 4 line up as favourite of any GT where another isn't it IMO. The best four riders; Nibali, Quintana, Froome, Bertie

The next set is where it becomes difficult to distinguish. Uran, Pinot, Valverde, Horner, Rodriguez and Wiggo are the next set IMO

 

[damian13ster]

Lol,any of us dont have a fvcking clue what he knew or didnt.
You are probably one of those members due to that stage 16 thread had 250 pages or how many...so I think it was discussed enough,that stage.
I think you overreacted over his 'lie' and his not 'deserved' win.

Actually, even dropping the matter whether they knew it or not. During post-stage interviews they said they were just following each other. Hesjedal saying he was following Rolland, Rolland saying he was following Quintana, Quintana saying he was following both of them. Since someone had to ride first it indicates they (or at least 2/3 of them) were lying.

Anyway, I agree it was discussed already and doesnt have to be revisited.

And replying to Afranks' post. Of course, if those mistakes are made by the riders then sure, results are valid. If the mistakes were made by organizers though.....


Also, about other mountain finishes. He was taking 20 seconds per MTF, there is no denying that, but there is also no denying that he wouldnt make up the time for Uran at that pace! He would run out of MTF's. And are you going to say that Hesjedal is better climber than Uran? If thats not the case than it is more likely than not that Uran would lose just a couple of seconds, not even 20. So not exactly sure where you were going with this point.

Of course, age argument is valid. if I was to sign a rider for 3-4 seasons I would go with Quintana. We were talking about current state though, and in this year I wasnt impressed with Quintana's performance at all and believe if all were fair and square, Uran would win the Giro. Of course he would lose 1:30 +/- 15 seconds on mountain stages in total (and that might be a stretch since he didn really have major crisis) but that wasnt enough to make up for the lead he had, even if you account 1:26s from MTT. Its the only point I am trying to make. Again, not arguing Quintana doesnt have much higher potential or that he isnt a better climber since he proved that to be true. All I am saying is that he wouldnt win the Giro this season without help from organizers. And since the parcours really suited him and he wasnt able to dominate, I would pick Uran over him for a GT this season

 

[42x16ss]

Take a look at how Quintana rode the rest of the mountain stages for that Giro. He barely broke a sweat, the time gap was big enough for the win already. If the Giro organisers deducted time for the Stelvio descent Quintana almost certainly could have made it up again somewhere else.

Also it's all well and good to say that Hesjedal challenged for the stage win at Val Martello but what did he do after that? He went backwards and lost time on the later stages as he probably went a little too deep going for the stage win, as did Rolland who was unable to hold on to his podium position (although being so terrible in the first week, yet again didn't help).

Quintana had the win sewn up shortly after Val Martello with Uran losing time hand over fist. He only went as hard as he needed to after that, otherwise there would have been fireworks.

 

[Jspear]

Take a look at how Quintana rode the rest of the mountain stages for that Giro. He barely broke a sweat, the time gap was big enough for the win already. If the Giro organisers deducted time for the Stelvio descent Quintana almost certainly could have made it up again somewhere else.

Also it's all well and good to say that Hesjedal challenged for the stage win at Val Martello but what did he do after that? He went backwards and lost time on the later stages as he probably went a little too deep going for the stage win, as did Rolland who was unable to hold on to his podium position (although being so terrible in the first week, yet again didn't help).

Quintana had the win sewn up shortly after Val Martello with Uran losing time hand over fist. He only went as hard as he needed to after that, otherwise there would have been fireworks.

Good post. Some people here don't seem to be able to get this.

 

[damian13ster]

Good post. Some people here don't seem to be able to get this.

No. Same people here take it for what it is. An assumption.
Quintana hasnt been known for grimacing and showing pain face when he is on his limits so how can you tell how he felt? Only he knows. And wouldnt a logical thing to do after such controversy be to prove on following stages that you would destroy competition anyway? You didnt see Nibali holding up and riding defensive in Tour de France. He knew his opponents dropped out so he proved that he would be up there with them by absolutely destroying the field and showing that noone can match him. And provided entertainment with long range attacks. If Nairo was able to do the same whats the reason not to do that and prove that you are by far the strongest in the race (not just stronger on MTFs by a bit, but stronger by enough to nullify the Stelvio stage (and not just the descent because the race would be much different if they were all there together)). He just wasnt capable of doing that and thats why his win will be questioned by some, and there are legitimate reasons for that.

 

[42x16ss]

How do you know he wasn't? How do you know Nibali wasn't capable of winning this years TdF by more?

Not all riders attempt to win by the biggest margin possible, over the years more riders than not have played things quite safe once the win is assured. Indurain springs to mind here. You are looking at races too linear, assuming everyone has raced to their absolute capacity.

 

[barmaher]

I think it is the most logical assumption to assume that a rider winning his first GT will be going all out. Maybe if there was a gun to his head from Uran he would have responded, but I think he would have taken time out of Uran in the last few days if he could.

 

[Arredondo]

Uran took time on all other riders bar Quintana on Zoncolan though, so your assumption that he's a weak climber is plain wrong.

Also you're bringing his TTs from the past as a proof of him not being that good of a TTer while it's really clear to everybody that he improved a lot in that department this year. Not only at the Giro.

Is he a better GT rider than Quintana? No. But you're truly underestimating him here. Not a flashy rider, but a very solid and consistent one. I'm really looking forward to see him ride the Tour next year.

The Barolo TT was more a mountain TT then a purely flat TT. But a lot of people pretend it was a flat TT. Just like a lot of people who were accusing Purito of ''wrong things'' because he rode to 3rd at ''the flat'' Chorges TT

Yes, he did take time on all the other riders. But which riders? Evans, Hesjedal, a young and still inexperience Kelderman, Rolland and Pozzovivo (which are good climbers, but nowhere good to be really scale as super climbers). Uran is a good climber, but i still rate him as a guy who can have a bad day in the mountains. He still hasn't showed anything in the Tour, against multiple top climbers.

This Giro he didn't had one bad day, chapeau for that. Perhaps it's the first sign of the new Rigoberto Uran.

So weak climber is a too harsh qualification from my side. But i still don't think he is a fantastic climber.

Also you're bringing his TTs from the past as a proof of him not being that good of a TTer while it's really clear to everybody that he improved a lot in that department this year. Not only at the Giro.

Really? On what do you base this? On his TT in Romandie? If you look at the top-10, you see Froome who beats Martin (which shows it was a hard TT), and the likes of Frank, Pinot, Izagirre, Spilak and Costa figure in it. That shows it wasn't a flat TT.

In the only flat TT this year, at Tirreno, he was beaten by Quintana So where is that proof?

 

[gospina]

.... He still hasn't showed anything in the Tour, against multiple top climbers.

Technically, not true. Several stages in 2009 tour, a young Caisse rider was staying with all the big guns, Shlecks, Contador, Armstrong, Wiggins, etc...

That was Uran

 

[gospina]

Take a look at how Quintana rode the rest of the mountain stages for that Giro. He barely broke a sweat, the time gap was big enough for the win already. If the Giro organisers deducted time for the Stelvio descent Quintana almost certainly could have made it up again somewhere else.

Also it's all well and good to say that Hesjedal challenged for the stage win at Val Martello but what did he do after that? He went backwards and lost time on the later stages as he probably went a little too deep going for the stage win, as did Rolland who was unable to hold on to his podium position (although being so terrible in the first week, yet again didn't help).

Quintana had the win sewn up shortly after Val Martello with Uran losing time hand over fist. He only went as hard as he needed to after that, otherwise there would have been fireworks.

I was keeping a different GC list based on Quintana and Co. not taking time on that stage. Final GC stayed pretty much the same for the top 15. Top 3 didn't change

 

[Arredondo]

Technically, not true. Several stages in 2009 tour, a young Caisse rider was staying with all the big guns, Shlecks, Contador, Armstrong, Wiggins, etc...

That was Uran

The stage to Le Grand Bornand. True. He showed himself well there. After that, he spectaculairy blow up

Or the stage to Andorra, same outcome.

 

[SeriousSam]

Good post. Some people here don't seem to be able to get this.

Yeah, he barely broke a sweat riding with Froome up the Ventaux, seemed to be completely tranquillo.. until he cracked, that is, and lost 30 seconds in the last kilometer.

 

[SafeBet]

Yes, he did take time on all the other riders. But which riders? Evans, Hesjedal, a young and still inexperience Kelderman, Rolland and Pozzovivo (which are good climbers, but nowhere good to be really scale as super climbers).

Aru, who some posters here rate as a superior GT rider. Which is nonsense. BTW the climbing pool was pretty good at the Giro if you ask me. I'd rate it higher than the climbing pool at the Tour after Froome and Berto dropped out.

Really? On what do you base this? On his TT in Romandie? If you look at the top-10, you see Froome who beats Martin (which shows it was a hard TT), and the likes of Frank, Pinot, Izagirre, Spilak and Costa figure in it. That shows it wasn't a flat TT.

In the only flat TT this year, at Tirreno, he was beaten by Quintana So where is that proof?

Tirreno proves nothing, since he had no form whatsoever and wasn't even competing for the GC.

Uran reminds of Nibali 3 or 4 years ago. Great all arounder, great on hills, solid TTer, can climb with the best, sometimes will be dropped but able to limit his losses. If he improves more (which perhaps will never happen), he's a very legit candidate to win a GT. More likely than most names I've read here, bar the top4.

 

[ILovecycling]

For him to make my top 5 GT riders I'd have to go back to over 3 years ago. Maybe he'll do something to get in my top 5 next year.

Thats weird.The topic of this thread is,who are the best GT riders who will lienup next GT,when 100% healthy.
It is not based on history (and even if it was ,Contador won gt 1yr 11 months ago) but recent races perfromance.
You dont think Contador is actually better gt rider than at least one of those you named?

Actually, even dropping the matter whether they knew it or not. During post-stage interviews they said they were just following each other. Hesjedal saying he was following Rolland, Rolland saying he was following Quintana, Quintana saying he was following both of them. Since someone had to ride first it indicates they (or at least 2/3 of them) were lying.

Anyway, I agree it was discussed already and doesnt have to be revisited.

And replying to Afranks' post. Of course, if those mistakes are made by the riders then sure, results are valid. If the mistakes were made by organizers though.....


Also, about other mountain finishes. He was taking 20 seconds per MTF, there is no denying that, but there is also no denying that he wouldnt make up the time for Uran at that pace! He would run out of MTF's. And are you going to say that Hesjedal is better climber than Uran? If thats not the case than it is more likely than not that Uran would lose just a couple of seconds, not even 20. So not exactly sure where you were going with this point.

Of course, age argument is valid. if I was to sign a rider for 3-4 seasons I would go with Quintana. We were talking about current state though, and in this year I wasnt impressed with Quintana's performance at all and believe if all were fair and square, Uran would win the Giro. Of course he would lose 1:30 +/- 15 seconds on mountain stages in total (and that might be a stretch since he didn really have major crisis) but that wasnt enough to make up for the lead he had, even if you account 1:26s from MTT. Its the only point I am trying to make. Again, not arguing Quintana doesnt have much higher potential or that he isnt a better climber since he proved that to be true. All I am saying is that he wouldnt win the Giro this season without help from organizers. And since the parcours really suited him and he wasnt able to dominate, I would pick Uran over him for a GT this season

Im not going to asnwer to your entire post,as I said it was discussed enough,if you want to discuss it again,go to proper stage thread.

bolded: Ok lets have a bet about next GT performace at la Vuelta,they have same conditions (perfect same).
Who will be better in final GC Not apllied when serious crash or mechanical which throw them out of GC (several minutes lost).
The one who wins can pick any avatar,from end of Vuelta to end of next Tour.
Deal?

 

[ILovecycling]

Aru, who some posters here rate as a superior GT rider. Which is nonsense. BTW the climbing pool was pretty good at the Giro if you ask me. I'd rate it higher than the climbing pool at the Tour after Froome and Berto dropped out.




Tirreno proves nothing, since he had no form whatsoever and wasn't even competing for the GC.

Uran reminds of Nibali 3 or 4 years ago. Great all arounder, great on hills, solid TTer, can climb with the best, sometimes will be dropped but able to limit his losses. If he improves more (which perhaps will never happen), he's a very legit candidate to win a GT. More likely than most names I've read here, bar the top4.

Yeah,climbing field was a bit better at giro than tour in final weeks.

And yeah,anything before Romandie for Uran (except oman) was a preparation.He had terrible spring,not comparable with any other gt rider imo.
To compare quintana and uran is very difficult as they almost always race different races,or have varied form