Total Disillusionment

[hrotha]

The worst thing about Sky is that, for me, they are almost single-handedly destroying what little credibility cycling had regained in the last 5 years. They've made everything suspect and tainted, like it was in the worst days of the EPO era. Whether I like it or not, they've changed the way I look at cycling and made it a lot more cynical - and it wasn't exactly all sugar and spice to begin with.

 

[MarkvW]

Charles Pelkey calls for Solidarity Forever.

I'm totally digging it. Until they meaningfully unionize, pro cyclists are just herd animals--stupid f-ing cows that can pedal fast. . .prisoners of the road.

 

[thehog]

The worst thing about Sky is that, for me, they are almost single-handedly destroying what little credibility cycling had regained in the last 5 years. They've made everything suspect and tainted, like it was in the worst days of the EPO era. Whether I like it or not, they've changed the way I look at cycling and made it a lot more cynical - and it wasn't exactly all sugar and spice to begin with.

The Tour is a foregone conclusion. Smash the TTT then Skytrain for the next 19 stages.

 

[Maxiton]

I'm totally digging it. Until they meaningfully unionize, pro cyclists are just herd animals--stupid f-ing cows that can pedal fast. . .prisoners of the road.

Agreed. So there is a glimmer of hope.

Of course, if they do manage somehow to unionize, that will be only the beginning of the struggle. The riders will have to be careful to maintain control of their organization, because the UCI will definitely seek to control it themselves, if they can't forestall it. If a riders union comes under the influence of the UCI, it will be just one more tool to use against the riders.

If the riders can form it and control it, a union could go a long way toward cleaning up the "sport".

 

[MarkvW]

Agreed. So there is a glimmer of hope.

Of course, if they do manage somehow to unionize, that will be only the beginning of the struggle. The riders will have to be careful to maintain control of their organization, because the UCI will definitely seek to control it themselves, if they can't forestall it. If a riders union comes under the influence of the UCI, it will be just one more tool to use against the riders.

If the riders can form it and control it, a union could go a long way toward cleaning up the "sport".

I'm not so sure that meaningful unionization is good for antidoping, but without unionization the riders will never be treated fairly. Fairness has to be the foundation that any non-corrupt cycling regime is built upon.

 

[BroDeal]

The worst thing about Sky is that, for me, they are almost single-handedly destroying what little credibility cycling had regained in the last 5 years. They've made everything suspect and tainted, like it was in the worst days of the EPO era. Whether I like it or not, they've changed the way I look at cycling and made it a lot more cynical - and it wasn't exactly all sugar and spice to begin with.

Yup. Five years ago I felt the situation was on its way to getting better. The return of Armstrong along with the ASO making a deal with the UCI, replacing Clerc, and ordering l'Equipe not to proactively report on doping was a big blow. The way riders, race organizers, and the governing body embraced him was an even larger one. But there was hope something might come out of the federal investigation that would lead to change. Nothing of significance happened other than the destruction of Armstrong. The sport has collectively dismissed that as an anomaly from the past. Speeds are down, everything is clean. The idjit McQuaid will be elected to another term and is making statements to the press that the bio passport makes it impossible to get away with doping. Yet, the racing is more ludicrous than about anything we saw during the EPO era. Whatever hope I had that the sport could get better is gone. The Sky farce and the way the media and cycling's stakeholders are falling over themselves to repeat the same propaganda they used to build the Armstrong myth has seen to that. The way the Skybots breathlessly repeat the PR machine's talking points has, perhaps, made me even more cynical.

Watching this sport is like watching a wife who keeps returning to her abusive husband, convinced that this time he's going to change.

 

[purcell]

I'm a little fascinated by all this. I have absolutely no idea how doped things are. However a few observations:

Are tjv, talansky, peraud and thibaud all blood doping?

Tjv and talansky are both previous podium finishers at the tour de l'avenir (if I remember correctly) so there progression seems pretty normal. Particularly since neither of them is powering away for a succession of 600 watt attacks as contadope and Rasmussen did in 2007.

I find it interesting that we are seeing the same riders over and over at the front of the stage races since the beginning of the season. I find this refreshing. Reminds of racing pre1990s. Wiggins is even thinking of tackling all three gts. When exactly is he going to store away all the needed bags of blood?

However I can't help but have my doubts about contra dope getting the "flu" from a race he finished a week before. He is definitely not what he was but I do fear he is off having a pint extracted as I write.

Also, I do not share everyone's suspicion of jv. For him to be the head of a huge team doping scheme would require a sociopathy on his part that would need to be even greater than armstrong's. I do not believe that to be true. It would also require a conspiracy from all his team members that would transcend uspostal's.

I cannot speak for sky. However their classics team has been anything but dominant.

Do I think that there is no doping. Absolutely not.

My greatest concern, is the report that there is not enough occ testing. Refreshing that the riders are complaining about it. But I am concerned that if e the policing is not strong enough another arms race will ensue because riders will stop trusting the very fragile security of the bp.

I would love for people to summon up the imagination to come up with something more mature, and imaginative, than ... conta dope.

Tired and overdone.

 

[maxmartin]

I would love for people to summon up the imagination to come up with something more mature, and imaginative, than ... conta dope.

Tired and overdone.

that will be at least a few years later, I am sure when Lance started you probably were one of the biggest Lance fan

 

[willbick]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

 

[purcell]

that will be at least a few years later, I am sure when Lance started you probably were one of the biggest Lance fan

Well, you remained true to form at least.

Off to the ignore list.

 

[maxmartin]

Well, you remained true to form at least.

Off to the ignore list.

learn how to use English, I have no idea what you are trying to express

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

learn how to use English, I have no idea what you are trying yo express

Unfortunate typo.

I think in this case it is yo(sic) understanding of English.

 

[maxmartin]

Unfortunate typo.

I think in this case it is yo(sic) understanding of English.

fixed lol
I hate 10 characters requirement

 

[sittingbison]

shoot the message net the messenger.

First and final warning, insults, trolling, baiting, responding in kind will result in a ban


bison

 

[Cyivel]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

Do you recall your post a few weeks ago that said attacks from outside of a km were not possible if a rider was clean?

What do you make of Froome's 6k attack?

 

[thehog]

Yup. Five years ago I felt the situation was on its way to getting better. The return of Armstrong along with the ASO making a deal with the UCI, replacing Clerc, and ordering l'Equipe not to proactively report on doping was a big blow. The way riders, race organizers, and the governing body embraced him was an even larger one. But there was hope something might come out of the federal investigation that would lead to change. Nothing of significance happened other than the destruction of Armstrong. The sport has collectively dismissed that as an anomaly from the past. Speeds are down, everything is clean. The idjit McQuaid will be elected to another term and is making statements to the press that the bio passport makes it impossible to get away with doping. Yet, the racing is more ludicrous than about anything we saw during the EPO era. Whatever hope I had that the sport could get better is gone. The Sky farce and the way the media and cycling's stakeholders are falling over themselves to repeat the same propaganda they used to build the Armstrong myth has seen to that. The way the Skygits breathlessly repeat the PR machine's talking points has, perhaps, made me even more cynical.

Watching this sport is like watching a wife who keeps returning to her abusive husband, convinced that this time he's going to change.

If Armstrong wants to save cycling he can...

He could end this show with a few words...

 

[Big Doopie]

I would love for people to summon up the imagination to come up with something more mature, and imaginative, than ... conta dope.

Tired and overdone.

Actually spell check came up with "contra dope" that time. But point taken.

 

[Tinman]

If Armstrong wants to save cycling he can...

He could end this show with a few words...

Yeah, like Jessie "The Body" Ventura.

 

[Big Doopie]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

Frankly, this does need to be answered. Not saying sky isn't doping. Idk. But what exactly is the big deal in this performance?

 

[MarkvW]

If Armstrong wants to save cycling he can...

He could end this show with a few words...

So Lance is both the disease and the cure?

 

[thehog]

So Lance is both the disease and the cure?

Neither. But he could bring the UCI very easily.

 

[MarkvW]

Neither. But he could bring the UCI very easily.

Where could Lance bring the UCI?

 

[oldcrank]

what exactly is the big deal in this performance?

...agreed, and why does it cause "Total Disillusionment" when
FabCon's performances over the last number of years didn't?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I find it interesting that we are seeing the same riders over and over at the front of the stage races since the beginning of the season. I find this refreshing. Reminds of racing pre1990s.

Except the problem is, we know the UCI is simply not processing positives for riders they favor.
And we know Hein's threatened making anyone positive.
And we know the pre-1990s peloton didn't have the drugs to transform mules into racehorses.
And we can infer that Hein and Pat "grew" cycling in English speaking countries by picking winners in the past not enforcing any doping regulations.

Wiggins is even thinking of tackling all three gts. When exactly is he going to store away all the needed bags of blood?

Would he need blood bags if the UCI won't enforce doping rules for the Sky Grand Tour squad?

Those visits to Tenerife are transforming. Altitude training never worked so well!

My greatest concern, is the report that there is not enough occ testing. Refreshing that the riders are complaining about it. But I am concerned that if the policing is not strong enough another arms race will ensue because riders will stop trusting the very fragile security of the bp.

Check out the Ashenden vs. UCI thread. Ashenden exposed the UCI's not processing positives. The lack of sampling is only one teeeny, tiny bit of the problem.

 

[rata de sentina]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

I have absolutely no liking for sky but I think this is a fair point. I looked at the headlines and thought "this is ridiculous" but then I looked at top 10 and it's not so bad really we're talking minnows really.