Total Disillusionment

[blackcat]

Who else is feeling it?

A wag here posted that we now have cycling at three speeds: Non-dopers, dopers, and Sky. Add in few riders to the Sky category, and it is an apt description.

It is obvious there are massive differences in doping programs to the point where you can only laugh at who is winning and how. The results are so bizarre that there is no sporting value. None of the competition looks fair, and a sport that is not fair is not really a sport.

This is worse than the early 90s when only part of the riders and teams had hopped on the EPO express. At least then the rest of the peloton had the opportunity to take the same train. Now with a bio-passport run by a manipulative UCI, no one can trust the results are not a product of the UCI's drive to expand into new countries and markets.

The fight against doping has given the UCI even more power and made the sport worse.

garmin are about the closest team to Sky.

do they get a special niche maillot?

 

[blackcat]

It needs to be a lot funnier because I am not seeing any entertainment value. I have zero enthusiasm for the Tour or even the Giro other than a vague interest in how ridiculous the dope show will be.

well, I think you are on stage 1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program

now you have to work out how to have fun on fora and throw grenades at frodo and froome-dog. put a little luv into the tragi-comedy farce.

 

[blackcat]

it
can
be
fun
bro

 

[blackcat]

I don't know about disillusioned, but I'm mystified. Why do you guys bother watching cycling? As far as I can see you're either hopelessly idealistic or masochistic. I'm not sure either is particularly healthy, so I suggest you stop watching and take up basket-weaving.

irony.

wallace, p'raps u do not post in the clinic from now on fear u get drawn into a black vortex of hypocrisy

 

[blackcat]

Only French custom officials can save us now!

is not Sarkozy looking for a second run.

so no chance to appeal to customs, he is gonna jump back into an amaury bandwago and shut this customs thing down

 

[blackcat]

I'm a little fascinated by all this. I have absolutely no idea how doped things are. However a few observations:

Are tjv, talansky, peraud and thibaud all blood doping?

Tjv and talansky are both previous podium finishers at the tour de l'avenir (if I remember correctly)

on bread and water? prove the negative

indifferent if they are, or they are not. this is cycling. it gets what it produces.
(ok, so thats circular) how about, it gets what it deserves.


credit to good performances on either account. still a hard sport, and as even Armstrong said, hard work wins.

 

[blackcat]

Yeah, like Jessie "The Body" Ventura.

i raise u

 

[peterst6906]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

With the exception of TTs, racing is all about the place you finish, not about the time you take in doing it.

Even dopers know how to go slow and only show their 'form' at the right time.

The pattern of win, win, win against any field is the part that raises more and more questions.

 

[blackcat]

cant agree

is hyperbole

The worst thing about Sky is that, for me, they are almost single-handedly destroying what little credibility cycling had regained in the last 5 years. They've made everything suspect and tainted, like it was in the worst days of the EPO era. Whether I like it or not, they've changed the way I look at cycling and made it a lot more cynical - and it wasn't exactly all sugar and spice to begin with.

 

[Cavendash]

Frankly, this does need to be answered. Not saying sky isn't doping. Idk. But what exactly is the big deal in this performance?

Thats no fun though, slinging mud with no genuine evidence is much more fun.

 

[MartinGT]

Sky are making a mockery at our sport. What is more painful are the Sky Fan Boys.

"They use a scientific approach" Oh come on for Christ sake does the results mean they can do this in EVERY single stage race going?

 

[horsinabout]

.

Also, I do not share everyone's suspicion of jv. For him to be the head of a huge team doping scheme would require a sociopathy on his part that would need to be even greater than armstrong's. I do not believe that to be true. It would also require a conspiracy from all his team members that would transcend uspostal's.

When I read JV's thread and posts, I think "that is BS". Then I read a little more and go "I agree with this". Then I read on again and I go "oh that's BS again". Get the picture. Then you start to think, maybe we are dealing with a used car sales man here. His motive, beats me!

 

[spalco]

Agreed. So there is a glimmer of hope.

Of course, if they do manage somehow to unionize, that will be only the beginning of the struggle. The riders will have to be careful to maintain control of their organization, because the UCI will definitely seek to control it themselves, if they can't forestall it. If a riders union comes under the influence of the UCI, it will be just one more tool to use against the riders.

If the riders can form it and control it, a union could go a long way toward cleaning up the "sport".

Pro-cyclist solidarity has never been anti-doping historically. When there were protests it was always in opposition to controls and testing.

 

[spalco]

Sky are making a mockery at our sport. What is more painful are the Sky Fan Boys.

"They use a scientific approach" Oh come on for Christ sake does the results mean they can do this in EVERY single stage race going?

Why not? If Sky has some (non-doping) edge in training or whatever over all the other teams, then why wouldn't it show up in every race?

 

[xrayvision]

It needs to be a lot funnier because I am not seeing any entertainment value. I have zero enthusiasm for the Tour or even the Giro other than a vague interest in how ridiculous the dope show will be.

Totally agree, its a tragedy.

 

[hrotha]

What did the Sky riders do today? Well Froome beat that legendary climber 34 year old Pierrick Fedrigo on a MTF by a humungous 68 seconds!!!! And Porte beat him by 38 seconds!!! WOWOWOWEEE!!!! If thats the best their magic biscuits can do I think they need to find a new miracle potion.

Yesterday's performance wasn't isolated. Mind blown, huh?

 

[wannab]

Why not? If Sky has some (non-doping) edge in training or whatever over all the other teams, then why wouldn't it show up in every race?

Your joking right?

Training only allows you to reach your maximum potential, I.e. the physiological capacities your born with (which can be translated to w/kg FTP)

You can be sure that every PRO is doing everything he can to maximize this, but at some point you reach the ceiling (tada the introduction of doping to expand that).

This is the main reason why it's important to look at performances at young age and sudden changes of improvement at later age can be viewed as suspicious.

 

[spalco]

That's true of course, but I don't see what that has to do with the number of races won. If you think Froome, Wiggins and Porte are simply not talented enough to win races like P-N or Oman, then they shouldn't be winning any of them (outside occasional flukes).

 

[Cimber]

Sky are making a mockery at our sport. What is more painful are the Sky Fan Boys.

"They use a scientific approach" Oh come on for Christ sake does the results mean they can do this in EVERY single stage race going?

They are right either way, since after all doping is an scientific approach

 

[ebandit]

beautiful

Sky are making a mockery at our sport. What is more painful are the Sky Fan Boys.

ha ha! when was our beautiful sport really............so beautiful?

cycling was dubious long before team sky and alas probably will still be so long after team sky..........have won everything or been exposed

members perhaps should reflect that the problem is not any current team
/ cyclist but the enablers

i see what is needed is real change starting with goodbye to fat pat

 

[wannab]

That's true of course, but I don't see what that has to do with the number of races won. If you think Froome, Wiggins and Porte are simply not talented enough to win races like P-N or Oman, then they shouldn't be winning any of them (outside occasional flukes).

You alluded on sky having an edge because of revolutionary training

I'm saying exactly that talent is the delimiting factor here, the question is where did all this overwhelming talent of the entire sky team come from all of a sudden.

 

[spalco]

Not exactly, what I was saying was, that if Sky has that non-doping edge, it's logical that it's noticable in all races. What I didn't say, and what I would add now is - whether that's enough for the victory, or not.

The mere fact that riders appear to improve their performance at Sky or show less after leaving Sky is not suspicous to me in this context as well for that reason.

 

[Winterfold]

I think I will just ride a lot.

If that's the way you feel, it's ride a lot, or shut the door on the way out.

I'd suggest riding a lot.

 

[Ferminal]

Why wouldn't they take Kerrison's advice with them when they leave?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Antoine Vayer may be feeling the same:

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 15u
Outstanding victory for Dan Martin in Catalunya good for the sport. Watching him climb and suffer is reassuring. Same with Chris Froome.

antoine vayer
‏@festinaboy
@DavidWalshST not Chris. Nononono.