Total Disillusionment

[Winterfold]

Why wouldn't they take Kerrison's advice with them when they leave?

I find this curious too - it is all the stuff around Rogers I find most suspiscous tbh.

It was a bit early for him, but he has generally done well in CI before...

Maybe he just burned out last year. Maybe him, Contador and Bjarne are plotting an imaginative hustle

 

[JPM London]

Not exactly, what I was saying was, that if Sky has that non-doping edge, it's logical that it's noticable in all races. What I didn't say, and what I would add now is - whether that's enough for the victory, or not.

The mere fact that riders appear to improve their performance at Sky or show less after leaving Sky is not suspicous to me in this context as well for that reason.

I can see one tiny edge they have over quite a few teams. Wiggins, Froome, Porte - all riders who'd be undisputed captains with potential to win GTs on most other teams. Contador's got a couple of good helpers this year - but I wouldn't bet on either Roman or Roche against either of the ones above. Take a good look at some of the captains on other teams and then compare them to the lieutenants on Sky... Ouch.

I've been around enough not to believe just anything, but I don't think they've been unbelievable this season. The first season they were unbelievably bad for what money and talent and knowledge they had - that drew quite a few laughs. Now they're just delivering on their potential - as far as I can tell.

FWIW I don't think it's gonna last through the season. They'll be competitive, but others are just warming up as they can't field that same force through a whole season. I think they'll lose out on both Giro and Tour which would leave them with a shot at the Vuelta for a GT this year.

 

[Cimber]

I can see one tiny edge they have over quite a few teams. Wiggins, Froome, Porte - all riders who'd be undisputed captains with potential to win GTs on most other teams.

Porte would never have been considered a undisputed GT captain before this spring, and even now I dont see many teams where he would be undisputed leader (co-leader maybe).

 

[coinneach]

Well, I think if you didn't enjoy the 4 main races last week, all I can do is feel sorry for you. They were great!

Even the one that Sky won was quite exciting with attack, tactics, counter attack...a far cry from their rather boring train of last year. Froome attacked from 5 km out, something most of the posters have been criticizing him for not doing all of last year

Cancellara & Sagan's classic wins were thrilling, and Dan Martin took his oppertunistic chance to win, even though he wasn't the strongest rider in the race.

Whats not to like about any of that? Lighten up guys, or start watching curling.... I see Scotland are now womens world champions in that

 

[Cimber]

Well, I think if you didn't enjoy the 4 main races last week, all I can do is feel sorry for you. They were great!

Even the one that Sky won was quite exciting with attack, tactics, counter attack...a far cry from their rather boring train of last year. Froome attacked from 5 km out, something most of the posters have been criticizing him for not doing all of last year

Cancellara & Sagan's classic wins were thrilling, and Dan Martin took his oppertunistic chance to win, even though he wasn't the strongest rider in the race.

Whats not to like about any of that? Lighten up guys, or start watching curling.... I see Scotland are now womens world champions in that

Things can be exciting yet disturbing at the same time.

What I enjoyed most was how Marin won the stage and alter the race from an early break.

 

[spalco]

Why wouldn't they take Kerrison's advice with them when they leave?

Tough question, probably only Rogers can answer that. Maybe he's old-school and thought he knows better, maybe he had a bad winter training? I admit it's a weak point in the "better training" argument though.

 

[Cimber]

Tough question, probably only Rogers can answer that. Maybe he's old-school and thought he knows better, maybe he had a bad winter training? I admit it's a weak point in the "better training" argument though.

Rogers had problems in the winter (ilness or injury - cant remember what exactly)

 

[willbick]

With the exception of TTs, racing is all about the place you finish, not about the time you take in doing it.

Even dopers know how to go slow and only show their 'form' at the right time.

The pattern of win, win, win against any field is the part that raises more and more questions.

er.....what???!

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Really, Kreuziger JPM?

Really.

Of all the 'pro - Sky' arguments this one is the real deal. Kreuziger. Placed 13th in the Tour age 22. Incomparable to those super talents of Team Sky.

To be fair, Wiggins aged 22 did win a stage in the Surrey League 5 Days.

 

[Benito]

Well, I think if you didn't enjoy the 4 main races last week, all I can do is feel sorry for you. They were great!

Even the one that Sky won was quite exciting with attack, tactics, counter attack...a far cry from their rather boring train of last year. Froome attacked from 5 km out, something most of the posters have been criticizing him for not doing all of last year

Cancellara & Sagan's classic wins were thrilling, and Dan Martin took his oppertunistic chance to win, even though he wasn't the strongest rider in the race.

Whats not to like about any of that? Lighten up guys, or start watching curling.... I see Scotland are now womens world champions in that

If this is your opinion, can we then just stop all the hypocritical banned-substance lists, doping-controls, blood-passports, I-swear-on-my-mother's-grave-vows, etc. and let the best pharmaceutical freak win.

 

[martinvickers]

Why wouldn't they take Kerrison's advice with them when they leave?

Rather assumes Kerrison's advice is in the nature of one-off, for all time declarations. As opposed to continous feedback, tuning and adaptation.

I rather doubt he's simply saying - "right guys, you can all do 5.9 - so I've weighed you, now away up that hill, and here's the time you need to be able to do."

I suspect something closer to a feedback loop.

 

[Ferminal]

Rather assumes Kerrison's advice is in the nature of one-off, for all time declarations. As opposed to continous feedback, tuning and adaptation.

I rather doubt he's simply saying - "right guys, you can all do 5.9 - so I've weighed you, now away up that hill, and here's the time you need to be able to do."

I suspect something closer to a feedback loop.

If it's like that, how hard is it to pull another someone out of Canberra and put them on 80k a year to deliver better-than-doping gains?

BMC even have a high performance division under Peiper, maybe one day they will find someone with the talent of Kerrison to make the expense worthwhile.

 

[coinneach]

If this is your opinion, can we then just stop all the hypocritical banned-substance lists, doping-controls, blood-passports, I-swear-on-my-mother's-grave-vows, etc. and let the best pharmaceutical freak win.

You think Martin & Sagan are doping?

For me, Sagan is a total joy to watch: a one off, not schooled to do things one old way or another.

I do wonder if all the resentment at having been let down during the Armstrong years has led to hate.

And, whether its justified or not, hate ends up consumming/contaminating.

 

[Cimber]

You think Martin & Sagan are doping?

For me, Sagan is a total joy to watch: a one off, not schooled to do things one old way or another.

I do wonder if all the resentment at having been let down during the Armstrong years has lead to hate.

And, whether its justified or not, hate ends up consumming/contaminating.

I very much doubt that he wins on cereals and oatmeals alone. Sadly, since he is a terrific rider, but emperical evidence from the last 20 years (thats whan I began following the sport) makes me jump to that conclusion.

 

[martinvickers]

If it's like that, how hard is it to pull another someone out of Canberra and put them on 80k a year to deliver better-than-doping gains?

I'm not sure i see the connection here, Ferminal. Kerrison's personal rep in Australian swimming was pretty stellar before he ever went near a bike.

And frankly, you think the more well resourced, more clued up teams aren't now looking for someone similar from Rowing, swimming or suchlike?

BMC even have a high performance division under Peiper, maybe one day they will find someone with the talent of Kerrison to make the expense worthwhile.

Cadel won the tour. He fended off a proper Schleck and a contador to do it. One might think they've already got their payment...

 

[Ripper]

I can see one tiny edge they have over quite a few teams. Wiggins, Froome, Porte - all riders who'd be undisputed captains with potential to win GTs on most other teams.

Froome and Porte had not shown GT leadership potential pre-Sky. Porte's Giro success was good, but there were other factors in play that many people don't seem to recall.

Besides which - even if this theory were sound, history has shown having lots of potential GT winners does not give you the dominance Sky has shown.

 

[Benito]

You think Martin & Sagan are doping?

For me, Sagan is a total joy to watch: a one off, not schooled to do things one old way or another.

I do wonder if all the resentment at having been let down during the Armstrong years has lead to hate.

And, whether its justified or not, hate ends up consumming/contaminating.

Do I think Sagan and Martin are doping? Helllllll yeah...
Where did I show any sign of hatred?
I was solely under the impression that you didn't really care whether doping was in play since you enjoyed yourself that much. Then I say fine, but can we do it one way or the other. Either doping is prohibited and we get serious in dealing with it or we let it go at we can skip the farce.

 

[Cimber]

I'm not sure i see the connection here, Ferminal. Kerrison's personal rep in Australian swimming was pretty stellar before he ever went near a bike.

Ah yeah, swimming. Almost forgot. The cleanest sport in the world... or something...

 

[ANCrider]

Not disillusioned, loving it!

Great to see some exciting racing at last. More power to Team Sky!

 

[Benotti69]

Not disillusioned, loving it!

Great to see some exciting racing at last. More power to Team Sky!

Is that you Malcy Eliot?

 

[ANCrider]

I wish

 

[martinvickers]

Ah yeah, swimming. Almost forgot. The cleanest sport in the world... or something...

Swimming? No, lots of dopers to one extent or other, especially last couple of years - hell, the RUSADA caught a russion, 14!! the other day. Quite a lot of evidence that the russians have a systmic problem, but at least RUSADA seem to want to do something (see also list of recent russian women runners caught) - in Putin society, that's not a given.

Still, strawman argument. There's doping in every sport. Every. single. One. But not all sports people are dopers. A not = B.

As for your photo, who is she? Immediately brought to mind Enders...

 

[Benotti69]

I wish

You wish you were another of the dopers? Hmmm, why?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It needs to be a lot funnier because I am not seeing any entertainment value. I have zero enthusiasm for the Tour or even the Giro other than a vague interest in how ridiculous the dope show will be.

I agree. I have marginal interest in the Grand Tours this year. Nothing has really changed in the peloton with regard to doping. There is still one team that just does it better than everyone else.

Just rewind a decade and hit play.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Team Sky have exactly the same kind of fans that US Postal did: largely bandwagoners who know very little about cycling but feel some sort of nationalistic pride that a team from (a corporation in) their country is winning races.