Tour 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[Descender]

You are free to list all the occasions...

Grappa, Aquila, Aprica, Madeleine, Serre-Chevalier, Alpe d'Huez... all in GTs exclusively, all within the last two years, all either epic or successful or both. And that's with the few chances the riders have got to attack from afar these last two years.

 

[asdfgh101]

Without knowing precisely about all of the finishes and difficulties in final km here is an aproximation of what we have:

Prologue
Hilly classic stage
Flat
Hill finish
Flat
Flat
Flat
Cat 2 finish
Hilly (selective climbs near finish)
Rolling TT

High/medium mountains with Cat 2 summit 15km from finish
Mountain Stage (MTF)
Flat with uphill drag finish (can anyone create a 210km mountainous route?)
Flat
Breakaway stage
Flat

Mountain stage, descent finish
Mountain stage (MTF)
Flat with selective hill climb near finish
TT
Flat

7 'Cavendish' stages
3 proper mountain stages

Stage 10 is the other mountain stage (not stage 12 as reported)


My source for additional info: http://www.velowire.com/article/509...urs-on-the-race-course-and-stage-cities-.html

A random stage from 2009 that i would like to see repeated:

http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/COURSE/us/1700/etape_par_etape.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Tour_de_France,_Stage_12_to_Stage_21#Stage_17

 

[Publicus]

I guess some of us will have to remind people of Menchov many many times between now and July.

You'll need to remind Menchov of Menchov many many times between now and July.

EDIT: I'm not as offended by this route because it will cause teams with GC contenders with weak TT skills to look to take time at various points that they ordinarily would play it safe. The only thing they could possibly do to shake this up a bit more is bring back bonifications.

 

[ferryman]

hehe exactly
so happy it will begin w a prologue and not a bloody ttt. those things annoy the hell out of me
on the other hand Vino shouting at Stangelj (was it him? im not sure) and striking his thighs in the 2010 giro was certainly a sight to remember

A TTT can be a thing of beauty and drama. I don't get the love in for the ITT's. 30K up a few hills, ok, just. 50K+ over pan flat and people get excited

 

[Bike Boy]

hehe exactly
so happy it will begin w a prologue and not a bloody ttt. those things annoy the hell out of me
on the other hand Vino shouting at Stangelj (was it him? im not sure) and striking his thighs in the 2010 giro was certainly a sight to remember

Yes you are correct, and that was pretty funny (to watch at least). I'm also very fond of the prologue. It's just not the tour with out it. and I don't mind 2 ITT, but why not make up for it with more mountain stages? ASO never fails to disappoint in that regard.

Can't wait to see the stage profiles and hope that they will surprise me in a positive way.

 

[Bike Boy]

Also think they should make one of the ITT a mountain TT. Why on earth can't we have a MTT anymore? 2004 was the last time as I can recall.

Get the point of TTT being more dramatic, especially then half of the Bouygues telecom team rides into the field , but I don't think they need to be included every year.

 

[roundabout]

Grappa, Aquila, Aprica, Madeleine, Serre-Chevalier, Alpe d'Huez... all in GTs exclusively, all within the last two years, all either epic or successful or both. And that's with the few chances the riders have got to attack from afar these last two years.

Grappa - ok, but that's a genuine monster of a climb and even then the first 4 were in the top-5 in the end so it hardly decided the race

Aquila??? Really???

Aprica - I don't see any climbs resembling Mortirolo on this route where a climb alone is steep enough to explode the race to pieces

Madeleine - ok

Galibier - ok, but circumstances played a role

Alpe d'Huez - anyone tuning in with say 20 to go would have no idea that something important happened

So where will the riders attack from far this year? In the la-la land on the Grand Colombier, Croix-de-Fer, Cucheron, Pailheres, Tourmalet, Portillon etc?

On this route it's impossible to recover lost time in the TT. Period.

 

[Descender]

Grappa - ok, but that's a genuine monster of a climb and even then the first 4 were in the top-5 in the end so it hardly decided the race

Aquila??? Really???

Aprica - I don't see any climbs resembling Mortirolo on this route where a climb alone is steep enough to explode the race to pieces

Madeleine - ok

Galibier - ok, but circumstances played a role

Alpe d'Huez - anyone tuning in with say 20 to go would have no idea that something important happened

So where will the riders attack from far this year? In the la-la land on the Grand Colombier, Croix-de-Fer, Cucheron, Pailheres, Tourmalet, Portillon etc?

On this route it's impossible to recover lost time in the TT. Period.

I know what you mean, but Aquila is action from far.

Aprica - I was making the point that attacking from far is usually exciting and often successful, I didn't say this route had a Mortirolo.

Alpe d'Huez - and yet, we saw it and enjoyed the action. Note: I was the first one to criticise the design of the stage. Too short and the bunch was bound to be big at Burg d'Oisans no matter what.

As to next year's route, like I said we'll have to wait and see how it looks like in the end officially, but I'm sure the climbers will get plenty of chances to gain time back.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Well I am happy with at least one stage (check out my avatar!).

And it was about time that a GT attempted to rival the epic mountainous parcours of the '04 Giro

If I lose my job it will be during the next fortnight; thanks to all of this GT parcours excitement!

 

[Tank Engine]

It doesn't necessarily have to be. That stage might go with Pailheres

+

Col de Port

+ the last 3kms of the Col de Perègue

then a descent to the finish. There's room for damage there.

OK. The Pailheres is tough, but a long way out and followed by a relatively easy section, so will serve mainly to tire the riders. The Col de Port is fairly steady, so won't do a lot of major damage. However, the end of the Peguere is mean. It's still a bit of a way to the finish, but close enough for some serious racing.

 

[roundabout]

Plenty of chances?

And in the real world? Croix-de-Fer, Bales (if it will be Bales) and it's well only 8 or so km of Bales to get a gap, Peyresourde as I don't believe that Azet will be used and the ramp up the ski slope on stage 7.

That's it. Those are what I would call realistic options. Plenty of chances these are not.

96 TT kilometers is too much for that.

 

[Winterfold]

Thank you God!!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Thank you God!!

Are you a Brit, an Aussie, or a masochist?

 

[Winterfold]

I am prepared to sacrifice my impartial enjoyment of the race at the altar of a Brit on the podium

1. Contador
2/3. Evans/Wiggo

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Lol yes, whoever mentioned the 2004 Giro. A queen stage of 130km, nine stages won by Petacchi, and Honchar 2nd overall. Bradley McGee in the top 10 overall.

That is what I'm thinking of here.

If Tony Martin doesn't make the top 10, he must have crashed out.

 

[PCutter]

Lol yes, whoever mentioned the 2004 Giro. A queen stage of 130km, nine stages won by Petacchi, and Honchar 2nd overall. Bradley McGee in the top 10 overall.

That is what I'm thinking of here.

If Tony Martin doesn't make the top 10, he must have crashed out.

Woo-hoo! GE consulted on this route!! Bruyneel must have choked on his corn flakes when he woke up to this.

So UCI conspired to put a Brit in the rainbow and now ASO does its best to put one on the podium.

 

[webvan]

One brit ? How about two ?
1. Wiggins
2. Froome
3. Evans

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Woo-hoo! GE consulted on this route!! Bruyneel must have choked on his corn flakes when he woke up to this.

So UCI conspired to put a Brit in the rainbow and now ASO does its best to put one on the podium.

Yup, all of a sudden letting Brajkovic and Leipheimer walk looks like a terrible, terrible decision.

 

[The Hitch]

Yup, all of a sudden letting Brajkovic and Leipheimer walk looks like a terrible, terrible decision.

Horner might win a Tour yet. And Kloeden was Radioshacks other great rider this year, this could be good for him.

Also are you willing to take me up on my earlier posted proposal regarding our race, UrlaubinPolen?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Bruyneel must have choked on his corn flakes when he woke up to this.

That's the one amusing thing about this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Give me some time to research to condition of some of those Polish mountain passes, then!

(PS many of them are on the Czech-Polish border, think the places to put most of the equipment and suchlike is Czech-side unfortunately)

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I am prepared to sacrifice my impartial enjoyment of the race at the altar of a Brit on the podium

1. Contador
2/3. Evans/Wiggo

If Contador is banned, there's a very real chance of a British winner. If Wiggins or Froome can produce their Vuelta form, there isn't really anyone who would be clearly favoured over them. Evans would be another favourite, Menchov if he can rediscover his form, but neither would be impossible to beat. There's surely still too much climbing for Tony Martin to threaten the podium.

The only potential problem Sky would have is that there's potentially too much upside for them, with what looks like a sack load of winnable stages for Cavendish. They'll have to make some tough decisions.

 

[PCutter]

One brit ? How about two ?
1. Wiggins
2. Froome
3. Evans

The Tour ain't the Vuelta.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The Tour ain't the Vuelta.

Who would you favour over a Wiggins or Froome with their Vuelta form on this ridiculous parcours? Contador, who might be banned, Evans... and... and...

 

[The Hitch]

A few other observations.

Surely Nibali should do Tour and Basso Giro now.

Valverde should do well, though he usually holds his own in tts rather than owns them so will lose time there.

But hes one of the best in the world at hills and descents, so some opportunities for him to put time into others, and not too many mountains for them to put time into him.

And heres a wildcard im going to throw in.

Fabian Cancellara.

Will Cancellara have a go at GC for once? Yes it seems way off but then he won that TDS and was the best rider in the hilliest WC course of the last decade.

Someone once told him, i forget who that if he slimmed down a bit, he could try and challenge for a gc one time.

And i still believe he can own everyone including Panzerwagen in the tt when he really wants to.

If Contador is banned, there's a very real chance of a British winner. If Wiggins or Froome can produce their Vuelta form, there isn't really anyone who would be clearly favoured over them. Evans would be another favourite, Menchov if he can rediscover his form, but neither would be impossible to beat. There's surely still too much climbing for Tony Martin to threaten the podium.

I agree with much of that.

As much as I love Froome, I think Contador, Menchov, Evans, Samu are on another level from what he and Cobo showed at the Vuelta.

He could be up there but the above will have too much. For this year anyway.

Also a large reason for his success was that everyone else was getting exhausted by the heat, and he digs it, you know coming from Kenya and all.

I dont know that France will have such heatwaves, though it has happened, and if it comes on the right stages, then could be very good for Froome.