Tour 2014 Route Rumours

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Libertine Seguros said:
They've never been east of the Col de Jau though. And barely west of Larrau.

You could do a proper Pyrenean stage in the very East, maybe with an Andorra finish, since there's Coll de Creu, Col de Jau, Coll de la Llosa, Puymorens/Port d'Envalira, Dent, Port de Pailhères, Pradel, Chioula and Bonascre there. Then with the second Pyrenean stage you could go westwards using things like Lers, Peguères, Crouzette, Portech, Col de la Core and then have Portet d'Aspet (probably harder to avoid this one!) and finish at Ski Station Mourtis, or do Menté + then go to somewhere like Superbagnères. Then from Pau, Lourdes, Tarbes or somewhere like that you could skip horse**** like the Tourmalet and lead-in with something easy like Porteigt, then go Bouesou/Labays, Issarbe, Larrau. That's as long as we're believing the lie that the French-Basque roads can't take the Tour. Bagargui has handled it before.

I also thought of a Andorra finish, but i've never been to keen on them. It would be something different from Peyresourde, Aspin and Tourmalet, but I really don't rate the climbs around Andorra are that interesting. Too long and not very steep.

The two other alternatives you suggest are much more exciting. I like the idea of a stage finish at Mourtis after Aspet with a few climbs before that.

And especially I would like to see a stage in the border areas to Spain. Using climbs like Arnosteguy, Bagargui, Larrau. Is there some climb in this area which could be used as a stage finish?
 
OlavEH said:
I also thought of a Andorra finish, but i've never been to keen on them. It would be something different from Peyresourde, Aspin and Tourmalet, but I really don't rate the climbs around Andorra are that interesting. Too long and not very steep.

The two other alternatives you suggest are much more exciting. I like the idea of a stage finish at Mourtis after Aspet with a few climbs before that.

And especially I would like to see a stage in the border areas to Spain. Using climbs like Arnosteguy, Bagargui, Larrau. Is there some climb in this area which could be used as a stage finish?

The Andorra stages usually finish at Pal or, worse, Arcalis (one of my most despised mountaintops), however there are some half decent Andorra climbs. Arinsal is not bad at all (like a better version of Pal, so you could come straight off Ordino onto it), and Els Cortals d'Encamp is pretty good - shorter but steeper. I thought of Andorra as they'd be more likely to be willing to pay, but they could always hop across the border into Spain and finish somewhere like Vallter2000 (from this year's Catalunya).

I think Bagargui (from Larrau) could be used as an MTF, finishing at Les Chalets d'Irati. Larrau, probably pushing it. Issarbe & PSM, definitely. But from Bagargui the descent to SJPdP via Burdinkurutxeta is absolutely fine and no issue for the Tour's traffic, but would put the climb about 30km from the finish.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
The Andorra stages usually finish at Pal or, worse, Arcalis (one of my most despised mountaintops), however there are some half decent Andorra climbs. Arinsal is not bad at all (like a better version of Pal, so you could come straight off Ordino onto it), and Els Cortals d'Encamp is pretty good - shorter but steeper. I thought of Andorra as they'd be more likely to be willing to pay, but they could always hop across the border into Spain and finish somewhere like Vallter2000 (from this year's Catalunya).

I think Bagargui (from Larrau) could be used as an MTF, finishing at Les Chalets d'Irati. Larrau, probably pushing it. Issarbe & PSM, definitely. But from Bagargui the descent to SJPdP via Burdinkurutxeta is absolutely fine and no issue for the Tour's traffic, but would put the climb about 30km from the finish.

Ok, there are some alternatives in Andorra, but still not the most interesting climbs.

What about the Alps? Is there some climbs here which should be used instead of the usual suspects. I was thinking about a descent finish from Mont Le Chat. And a stage which includes some of the climbs in the Southern Alps. Like Cayolle, Allos and Champs. Maybe with a stage finish at Pra Loup. And Joux Plan followed by a stage finish at Avoriaz.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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OlavEH said:
Ok, there are some alternatives in Andorra, but still not the most interesting climbs.

What about the Alps? Is there some climbs here which should be used instead of the usual suspects. I was thinking about a descent finish from Mont Le Chat. And a stage which includes some of the climbs in the Southern Alps. Like Cayolle, Allos and Champs. Maybe with a stage finish at Pra Loup. And Joux Plan followed by a stage finish at Avoriaz.

Mont du Chat will surely make its come back in the next few years. ASO just can't ignore it.
For the Southern Alps, it's more difficult: there's not much locations that could be possible for a stage finish, and you need to host around 5,000 people in hotels that are not too far away. That's the main concern for ASO which haven't visited this spectacular region for 40 years...
 
Yea they could easily have a stage through the very southern Alps, probably an intermediate stage, stay in Nice or Menton, then have a stage heading north over climbs like Cayolle, Couillole, Bonette, Allos, Champs, and finishing with either Super-Sauze or Pra-Loup or a descent finish in Jausiers or Barcelonnette. Even within the well-known areas of the Alps there are plenty of either unused or little-used climbs, even if some of them aren't especially hard. Ski Station les Orres, for example, Notre-Dame-de-la-Salette which could come straight off the steep Col du Parquetout, several on the massifs around Grenoble, such as Col de Pre-Long, Prapoutel, Collet d'Allevard which was seen in the Dauphiné in 2011 and averages over 8%, the Col du Coq, and there's the very difficult Pipay-les-Sept-Laux and its easier cousin around the corner, the long but uncomplicated Pleyner-les-Sept-Laux. Near St-Jean-de-Maurienne you have the nice climb to Ski Station les Karellis, which could easily be linked to Galibier S, Madeleine N, or Croix de Fer or Mollard. Valmeinier 1800 as an alternative descending off Galibier S would be quite cool, as a short summit off the end of a much tougher climb - could induce earlier tough racing. Les Arcs haven't been used in a while, and neither has Notre-Dame du Pré, which could lead into a BSM finish, La Plagne or Les Arcs. Les Trois Vallées don't get used much - Val Thorens isn't steep but is ungodly long and underused, we haven't seen Courchevel for a while, and Méribel has only been used once, in 1973, and then they only went as far as Les Allues, when there's a whole further world of climbing to Méribel-Mottaret to add on to that. There's also Valmorel which could host the Tour but isn't the toughest climb, and Grand-Naves opposite it however the descent from there may be too narrow to cope with the Tour caravan if they are unhappy about the French-Basque climbs. There's also the Col des Cyclotouristes, and the shoulder of Mont-Bisanne that links up to the Col des Saisies but is a far tougher climb. The Col de l'Arpettaz isn't far from that, and there's the very difficult Col de la Pierre Carrée, although that would need to finish after a short descent in Flaine as there's nothing at the summit. Opposite that Plateau des Saix is just waiting for use. It's been a long time since Mont Revard was used, Mont du Chat is legendary with just one visit, plus there's always the Aostatal in Italy seldom used in the Giro with Pila-Ciel-Bleu, Tze Core, Joux, and the super brutal 10% climb of the Colle San Carlo which could descend to finish in La Thuile like the 2006 Giro.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yea they could easily have a stage through the very southern Alps, probably an intermediate stage, stay in Nice or Menton, then have a stage heading north over climbs like Cayolle, Couillole, Bonette, Allos, Champs, and finishing with either Super-Sauze or Pra-Loup or a descent finish in Jausiers or Barcelonnette. Even within the well-known areas of the Alps there are plenty of either unused or little-used climbs, even if some of them aren't especially hard. Ski Station les Orres, for example, Notre-Dame-de-la-Salette which could come straight off the steep Col du Parquetout, several on the massifs around Grenoble, such as Col de Pre-Long, Prapoutel, Collet d'Allevard which was seen in the Dauphiné in 2011 and averages over 8%, the Col du Coq, and there's the very difficult Pipay-les-Sept-Laux and its easier cousin around the corner, the long but uncomplicated Pleyner-les-Sept-Laux. Near St-Jean-de-Maurienne you have the nice climb to Ski Station les Karellis, which could easily be linked to Galibier S, Madeleine N, or Croix de Fer or Mollard. Valmeinier 1800 as an alternative descending off Galibier S would be quite cool, as a short summit off the end of a much tougher climb - could induce earlier tough racing. Les Arcs haven't been used in a while, and neither has Notre-Dame du Pré, which could lead into a BSM finish, La Plagne or Les Arcs. Les Trois Vallées don't get used much - Val Thorens isn't steep but is ungodly long and underused, we haven't seen Courchevel for a while, and Méribel has only been used once, in 1973, and then they only went as far as Les Allues, when there's a whole further world of climbing to Méribel-Mottaret to add on to that. There's also Valmorel which could host the Tour but isn't the toughest climb, and Grand-Naves opposite it however the descent from there may be too narrow to cope with the Tour caravan if they are unhappy about the French-Basque climbs. There's also the Col des Cyclotouristes, and the shoulder of Mont-Bisanne that links up to the Col des Saisies but is a far tougher climb. The Col de l'Arpettaz isn't far from that, and there's the very difficult Col de la Pierre Carrée, although that would need to finish after a short descent in Flaine as there's nothing at the summit. Opposite that Plateau des Saix is just waiting for use. It's been a long time since Mont Revard was used, Mont du Chat is legendary with just one visit, plus there's always the Aostatal in Italy seldom used in the Giro with Pila-Ciel-Bleu, Tze Core, Joux, and the super brutal 10% climb of the Colle San Carlo which could descend to finish in La Thuile like the 2006 Giro.
This post truly shows there's a ton of things to discover in the Alps and southern Jura for ASO. The main problem isn't that they couldn't go there, it's the candidates. Most of the times, it's all about money. And as long as L'Alpe d'Huez will bring in the cash every two years or so, ASO will give them a finish just for the sake of the 21 hairpins. And despite their steep or very long climbs, some ski resorts just don't want to recieve the Tour.

Last 10 years MTFs (at least 2C - in parenthesis, number of finishes in the Tour - in bold, new MTF):
2004: La Mongie (3), Plateau de Beille (3), Villard de Lans (6), L'Alpe d'Huez (24).
2005: Courchevel (3), Ax-3-Domaines (3), Pla d'Adet (9), Mende (2).
2006: Pla de Beret (1), L'Alpe d'Huez (25), La Toussuire (1).
2007: Tignes (1), Plateau de Beille (4), Col d'Aubisque (2).
2008: Hautacam (4), Prato Nevoso (1), L'Alpe d'Huez (26).
2009: Arcalis (2), Verbier (1), Mont Ventoux (8).
2010: Avoriaz (7), Mende (3), Ax-3-Domaines (4), Col du Tourmalet (2).
2011: Luz-Ardiden (8), Plateau de Beille (5), Col du Galibier (1), L'Alpe d'Huez (27).
2012: La Planche des Belles Filles (1), La Toussuire (2), Peyragudes (1).
2013: Ax-3-Domaines (5), Mont Ventoux (9), L'Alpe d'Huez (28), Semnoz (1).
Rumored for 2014: La Planche des Belles Filles (2), Risoul (1), Pla d'Adet (10).

As you can see, we still have many times the same finishing climbs. But we can't deny that since Prudhomme took the head of the Tour, there was at least one never-seen-before MTF per Tour, except 2010.
 
Linkinito said:
2010: Avoriaz (7), Mende (3), Ax-3-Domaines (4), Col du Tourmalet (2).
2011: Luz-Ardiden (8), Plateau de Beille (5), Col du Galibier (1), L'Alpe d'Huez (27).
2012: La Planche des Belles Filles (1), La Toussuire (2), Peyragudes (1).
2013: Ax-3-Domaines (5), Mont Ventoux (9), L'Alpe d'Huez (28), Semnoz (1).
Rumored for 2014: La Planche des Belles Filles (2), Risoul (1), Pla d'Adet (10).

As you can see, we still have many times the same finishing climbs. But we can't deny that since Prudhomme took the head of the Tour, there was at least one never-seen-before MTF per Tour, except 2010.

Still not very original. Use Galibier and Peyresourde (Peyragudes) as a stage finish for the first time. Tourmalet only second time. And use all of these at two stages at the same time.

The routes since Preudhomme took charge, hasn't added something brand new to the Tour. Most of the time it is recycling of much used climbs.

I'm aware that money decides much of the route, but at I think they at least could have one stage per tour where they do something which have been rarely or never done before. Galibier and Peyresourde as stage finish doesn't even come close to beeing original.
 
Sep 8, 2010
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Poursuivant said:
Does the article mention how many KM it would be or don't they know??

In 1994 there was a tt from Périgueux to Bergerac and it was 64 km long. So it is Bavrianrider dreamland. :D Indurain won and put 6 minutes into the Top Ten.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Hmm, 60K TT, better be enough MTF's before hand to balance it out.

Are there any climbs between Bergerac and Perigueux that can make it a hillier TT, or will it likely be pan flat?
 
Sep 13, 2010
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2014 Tour stages in the Pyrenees are pretty much decided

Good French 'sources' down here in the Central Pyrenees are starting to 'let slip' that there will be three stages which venture into the Hautes-Pyrenees and the neighbouring 'Departemente' of the Haute-Garonne.

Prudhomme has already been reported in Equipe as saying that the race will climb Tourmalet twice - a gesture intended to offer support and a tourism boost to those towns (particularly on the Western side) that were decimated in the flash floods which hit the region in June 2013.

So, it looks like we're getting:

22 July - Toulouse (or close by) to Bagneres-de-Luchon, via the Portet d'Aspet, Mente and Port de Bales. Get your bets on a Tommy Voeckler hat-trick to follow up his 2010 & 2012 wins on Bales-into-Luchon stages.

23 July - Luchon to Hautacam, via Peyresourde, Hourquette d'Ancizan (?), Tourmalet & Hautacam. Short (only 130km) but tough (4300m vertical).

24 July - Pau (cos it always has the money to afford to bid) to Pla d'Adet via Tourmalet, Aspin & then up to the ski station. Memories of George in 2005.

As always, it will depend on how the teams & riders choose to tackle them, but they look to have good chence of being decisive, coming so close before the Champs Elysees.

More detail (or, at least well-informed speculation) at http://www.pyractif.com/cycling-packages/road-tour-de-france.html
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Libertine Seguros said:
Absolutely f***ing awful. I would see Prudhomme hanged for this if true.
First appearance of Pyrenean climbs these last 10 years:
2012: Col de Portel (Aude - 2C), Col de Péguère (1C - was due to be climbed in 1973 from the other side but was ultimately cancelled), Peyragudes (1C - basically a longer Peyresourde).
2011: Hourquette d'Ancizan (1C).
2009: Col de Serra-Seca (1C - in spain).
2008: Col de Portel (Ariège - 1C).
2007: Port de Balès (HC), Col de la Pierre-Saint-Martin (1C - spanish side).
2006: Puerto de Beret (1C - in spain).
2003: Port de Pailhères (HC).

Only 10 in 10 years. Sometimes they should just skip the Pyrénées and do some big Massif Central climbs.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Absolutely f***ing awful. I would see Prudhomme hanged for this if true.

With Hautacam and Adet? Two multi mountains stages that finish on Hautacam and Adet? LS, get your feet on the ground and understand that those goat roads in Basque Country will never be in the Tour. And I see you know the french Pyrenees. Come with alternative routes and connect the valleys with the cities WHO WANT AND CAN PAY ASO without Aubisque, Marie Blanque, Tourmalet, Horquette/Aspin, Peyresourde, Portillon, Mente etc. In the Pyrenees the finishes will be different. Roads to the finish, not so much. After Tourmalet or Aubisque, par example, you can finish on Hautacam, Luz Ardiden or Cauterets.
But it's always after Tourmalet or Aubisque.
Regarding the route, nice one with PdBF, Geradmer (short but violent) Chamorousse, Risoul, Hautacam and Adet. If this is true.
 
McLovin said:
With Hautacam and Adet? Two multi mountains stages that finish on Hautacam and Adet? LS, get your feet on the ground and understand that those goat roads in Basque Country will never be in the Tour. And I see you know the french Pyrenees. Come with alternative routes and connect the valleys with the cities WHO WANT AND CAN PAY ASO without Aubisque, Marie Blanque, Tourmalet, Horquette/Aspin, Peyresourde, Portillon, Mente etc. In the Pyrenees the finishes will be different. Roads to the finish, not so much. After Tourmalet or Aubisque, par example, you can finish on Hautacam, Luz Ardiden or Cauterets.
But it's always after Tourmalet or Aubisque.
Regarding the route, nice one with PdBF, Geradmer (short but violent) Chamorousse, Risoul, Hautacam and Adet. If this is true.
Would it really be so difficult to use Spandelles in the Hautacam stage?
 
Netserk said:
Would it really be so difficult to use Spandelles in the Hautacam stage?

There are rumors for it for 2014. But if it will be used three times, then it will become a grotesque classic, just like the other climbs, just like Bales.