Tour de France 2015 Stage 17: Digne-les-Bains-Pra Loup 161km

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Re: Re:

VayaVayaVaya said:
damian13ster said:
jsem94 said:
So... the Giro-Tour double is way too difficult. At least for Contador. IDK if Froome can cope with it though. He hasn't raced the Giro in many years, and while the climbing suits him, the race is always harder to control and more unpredictable. Would be interesting to see him try tackle the Giro.
If he races Vuelta then we will see.

Much less time to rest between Tour and Vuelta + much better competition. This double is way harder. If he gets close to winning then Froome can definetely go for Giro-Tour (not next season though)
No way. Giro-Tour is definitely harder. Giro is harder than the Vuelta, and the competition in the Tour is the hardest. If you don't go into the Tour at 100%, you can't win. Contador beat Froome in the Vuelta last year and is not even in the ballpark at the Tour this year after riding the Giro. If you are the best at the Tour, you can follow wheels of the lesser competitors in the Vuelta. Exception being last year's Vuelta with Contador, Froome, and Quintana.
And this years Vuelta with Quintana, Rodriguez, Nibali, Aru, Landa, Valverde.
It is much better field than last year.
 
Sep 2, 2010
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I cannot imagine Froome being very good in the Giro if it raining a lot, or very cold However, if he were lucky and got good weather than perhaps. He also seems to have no problem in staying super skinny all season long which no other rider can seemingly do
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Re: Re:

damian13ster said:
Cimber said:
damian13ster said:
fungusbear said:
Well that was rubbish. I hate movistar for accepting 2nd and 3rd rather than going for the win.

Froome is the strongest. By a mile. No way they beat him unless they order a domestique to crash into him.
Accept it. Strongest GC rider in the world. By far
Agreed, but you can win if you are bold and smart, even when you are not the strongest. Like Contador did in the Vuelta a few years back. First step for that is to ride for the Victory and not 2nd or 3rd.

Some years back Movistar also ruined the chance to gap Froome when they had him isoleted and after the 1st mountain and with a long flat before the next. Sadly they also rode against Contador that time exactly as today making it super easy for Froome in an otherwise very vulnerble situation.

Trivia question: what was the gap in GC before the Fuente in Vuelta?
What is it now?
Was Rodriguez actually caught out or just not strong enough to chase (it was almost 1 vs 1 battle).
Valverde almost caught up by himself
How much stronger is Froome than Valverde?
Again: what is the gap in GC now?

Nothing can be done in this Tour. The cyclist that is 2 levels above everyone else wins. As simple as that
Of course something can be done. It might be very very hard and very unlikely to succeed but nothing is impossible. Well it is only impossible if you dont try. Am so sick of strong teams (and most often Movistar) riding for secondary gc placements.

EDIT: oh and Contador gapped Jrod with 2.38 on that stage. Nairo is 3.10 after Froome, Valverde 4.02. So its not out of reach if you actually dare risk it all. Attacking wihtin the last few kilometers wont win it of course. And they even have a weapon Contador didnt have: they have 2 riders who could actually do something, and then the other might counter later on.
 
Re: Re:

bassano said:
damian13ster said:
If he races Vuelta then we will see.

Much less time to rest between Tour and Vuelta + much better competition. This double is way harder. If he gets close to winning then Froome can definetely go for Giro-Tour (not next season though)
bollocks, because of total different prestige Giro/Tour aganist Tour/Vuelta and as someone said, tour as a 2nd GT is way to harder then Vuelta
But the Giro has weaker fields. Only one of the big four at the Giro, but how many at the Vuelta? Maybe two plus a lot of others the Giro didn't have like Valverde, JRod, etc.
 
Re: Re:

Cimber said:
damian13ster said:
Cimber said:
damian13ster said:
fungusbear said:
Well that was rubbish. I hate movistar for accepting 2nd and 3rd rather than going for the win.

Froome is the strongest. By a mile. No way they beat him unless they order a domestique to crash into him.
Accept it. Strongest GC rider in the world. By far
Agreed, but you can win if you are bold and smart, even when you are not the strongest. Like Contador did in the Vuelta a few years back. First step for that is to ride for the Victory and not 2nd or 3rd.

Some years back Movistar also ruined the chance to gap Froome when they had him isoleted and after the 1st mountain and with a long flat before the next. Sadly they also rode against Contador that time exactly as today making it super easy for Froome in an otherwise very vulnerble situation.

Trivia question: what was the gap in GC before the Fuente in Vuelta?
What is it now?
Was Rodriguez actually caught out or just not strong enough to chase (it was almost 1 vs 1 battle).
Valverde almost caught up by himself
How much stronger is Froome than Valverde?
Again: what is the gap in GC now?

Nothing can be done in this Tour. The cyclist that is 2 levels above everyone else wins. As simple as that
Of course something can be done. It might be very very hard and very unlikely to succeed but nothing is impossible. Well it is only impossible if you dont try. Am so sick of strong teams (and most often Movistar) riding for secondary gc placements.

can you give an example of what can be done against a rider that is way better than all other contenders and has a strong team?
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
bassano said:
damian13ster said:
If he races Vuelta then we will see.

Much less time to rest between Tour and Vuelta + much better competition. This double is way harder. If he gets close to winning then Froome can definetely go for Giro-Tour (not next season though)
bollocks, because of total different prestige Giro/Tour aganist Tour/Vuelta and as someone said, tour as a 2nd GT is way to harder then Vuelta
But the Giro has weaker fields. Only one of the big four at the Giro, but how many at the Vuelta? Maybe two plus a lot of others the Giro didn't have like Valverde, JRod, etc.
The maint difference between the 2 combas is done the Tour with a GT in your legs vs doing the Vuelta with a GT in your legs. Giro/Tour much harder.
 
Re: Re:

Cimber said:
TMP402 said:
bassano said:
damian13ster said:
If he races Vuelta then we will see.

Much less time to rest between Tour and Vuelta + much better competition. This double is way harder. If he gets close to winning then Froome can definetely go for Giro-Tour (not next season though)
bollocks, because of total different prestige Giro/Tour aganist Tour/Vuelta and as someone said, tour as a 2nd GT is way to harder then Vuelta
But the Giro has weaker fields. Only one of the big four at the Giro, but how many at the Vuelta? Maybe two plus a lot of others the Giro didn't have like Valverde, JRod, etc.
The maint difference between the 2 combas is done the Tour with a GT in your legs vs doing the Vuelta with a GT in your legs. Giro/Tour much harder.
But in certain years it would be possible if there was a weak enough field you could ride it "for training" as LeMond said. Eg don't you think Wiggins, or indeed Froome, could have done Giro-Tour in 2012?
 
Sep 2, 2010
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Re:

TourOfSardinia said:
Bearing Freak Accidents
this TdF has left the building.
Let's face it. The TdF was never in the building. It was sitting in the dawg's house the entire time. Especially when the weather gods decided that we would be having pro-Kenyan weather during almost the entire route.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Re: Re:

Nothing can be done in this Tour. The cyclist that is 2 levels above everyone else wins. As simple as that
Of course something can be done. It might be very very hard and very unlikely to succeed but nothing is impossible. Well it is only impossible if you dont try. Am so sick of strong teams (and most often Movistar) riding for secondary gc placements.

can you give an example of what can be done against a rider that is way better than all other contenders and has a strong team?
Isolate him (or close to) early in the stage. Just as they did some years back when the had him on isolated early. Like today have riders out front and then attack on and on early on and only let SKY and Froome close gaps, even if other rivals attacks. NEver ever do SKY's Work for them regardless of risking losing 3rd place. That Means a lot of teams would pin point their attacks agsint Sky and not eachother. If they went really hard on the first climbs all Froome would have left, if any, would be Thomas.

Today they should have let Berto go and let Sky deal with it and then counter a but later (but not to late)

Being ready to risk it all is key. It might very well not succeed. But maybe, just maybe, it will and you win big and become a legend. Cycling needs more riders with those kind of balls.
 
Jan 3, 2011
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Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
Cimber said:
TMP402 said:
bassano said:
damian13ster said:
If he races Vuelta then we will see.

Much less time to rest between Tour and Vuelta + much better competition. This double is way harder. If he gets close to winning then Froome can definetely go for Giro-Tour (not next season though)
bollocks, because of total different prestige Giro/Tour aganist Tour/Vuelta and as someone said, tour as a 2nd GT is way to harder then Vuelta
But the Giro has weaker fields. Only one of the big four at the Giro, but how many at the Vuelta? Maybe two plus a lot of others the Giro didn't have like Valverde, JRod, etc.
The maint difference between the 2 combas is done the Tour with a GT in your legs vs doing the Vuelta with a GT in your legs. Giro/Tour much harder.
But in certain years it would be possible if there was a weak enough field you could ride it "for training" as LeMond said. Eg don't you think Wiggins, or indeed Froome, could have done Giro-Tour in 2012?
Well, we will never know since not enough try it. Tour/Vuelta is a much safer bet, cos worst case you screw-up the lesser GT and not the Tour. With Giro/Tour its the other way around.
 
Bjarne Riis' analysis on Danish TV: 'Movistar are handing the win to Froome. Movistar had 3 riders up front but still used Valverde to chase down Contador. And Quintana only attcked Froome 100 m from the finish. Movistar are not riding for the win' (not an exact quote, but the essence of what he said).

I guess Riis is still biased but that's how I see it too.
 
Apr 17, 2014
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Re: Re:

Cimber said:
Nothing can be done in this Tour. The cyclist that is 2 levels above everyone else wins. As simple as that
Of course something can be done. It might be very very hard and very unlikely to succeed but nothing is impossible. Well it is only impossible if you dont try. Am so sick of strong teams (and most often Movistar) riding for secondary gc placements.

can you give an example of what can be done against a rider that is way better than all other contenders and has a strong team?
Isolate him (or close to) early in the stage. Just as they did some years back when the had him on isolated early. Like today have riders out front and then attack on and on early on and only let SKY and Froome close gaps, even if other rivals attacks. NEver ever do SKY's Work for them regardless of risking losing 3rd place. That Means a lot of teams would pin point their attacks agsint Sky and not eachother. If they went really hard on the first climbs all Froome would have left, if any, would be Thomas.

Today they should have let Berto go and let Sky deal with it and then counter a but later (but not to late)

Being ready to risk it all is key. It might very well not succeed. But maybe, just maybe, it will and you win big and become a legend. Cycling needs more riders with those kind of balls.
If you isolate a rider and then just take it in turns one after the other to attack, eventually one of them will get away. Froome is riding an incredible race, but he can't close down 20 different attacks. He can easily close down 3 though. Plus if you don't try to win the race, you won't win the race.
 
Re:

el_angliru said:
Bjarne Riis' analysis on Danish TV: 'Movistar are handing the win to Froome. Movistar had 3 riders up front but still used Valverde to chase down Contador. And Quintana only attcked Froome 100 m from the finish. Movistar are not riding for the win' (not an exact quote, but the essence of what he said).

I guess Riis is still biased but that's how I see it too.
He also criticized Tinkoff's tactics fwiw
 
Re: Re:

fungusbear said:
damian13ster said:
fungusbear said:
Well that was rubbish. I hate movistar for accepting 2nd and 3rd rather than going for the win.

Froome is the strongest. By a mile. No way they beat him unless they order a domestique to crash into him.
Accept it. Strongest GC rider in the world. By far
I don't disagree that he is the strongest, he clearly is. But instead of getitng your domestiques to ride hard for most of the mountain, why not attack one after the other. At least give your all instead of two Quintana "attacks", and don't chase down riders who could burn up SKY domestiques early in the stage.
Because they can't. Everybody is completely fatigued.

This could be the same problem with many GT's. Backloading all mountain stages. It has happened many times in the past and they keep doing it!!!
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
el_angliru said:
Bjarne Riis' analysis on Danish TV: 'Movistar are handing the win to Froome. Movistar had 3 riders up front but still used Valverde to chase down Contador. And Quintana only attcked Froome 100 m from the finish. Movistar are not riding for the win' (not an exact quote, but the essence of what he said).

I guess Riis is still biased but that's how I see it too.
He also criticized Tinkoff's tactics fwiw
Of course he did. Not that he was objective!!
 
Apr 17, 2014
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Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
fungusbear said:
damian13ster said:
fungusbear said:
Well that was rubbish. I hate movistar for accepting 2nd and 3rd rather than going for the win.

Froome is the strongest. By a mile. No way they beat him unless they order a domestique to crash into him.
Accept it. Strongest GC rider in the world. By far
I don't disagree that he is the strongest, he clearly is. But instead of getitng your domestiques to ride hard for most of the mountain, why not attack one after the other. At least give your all instead of two Quintana "attacks", and don't chase down riders who could burn up SKY domestiques early in the stage.

Even if they are fatigued, no excuse for doing SKY's work for them and chasing contador down.
Because they can't. Everybody is completely fatigued.

This could be the same problem with many GT's. Backloading all mountain stages. It has happened many times in the past and they keep doing it!!!
 
Re: Re:

BeagRigh said:
Cimber said:
Afrank said:
Eclipse said:
Can just see Contador hitting the deck in this

http://gfycat.com/CornySomberGuineafowl
Really hard to tell what exactly is happening. Did he flip over the handlebars? :(
According to eyewitnesses Rogers and Contador collided causin the crash....
It is very difficult to see if that gif but there could be two bodies there..
I think it's just Alberto, I was confused at first but it appears he's sliding on his right side.
But wtf it seems like he's pushing himself up while still sliding :confused: :eek:
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
LaFlorecita said:
el_angliru said:
Bjarne Riis' analysis on Danish TV: 'Movistar are handing the win to Froome. Movistar had 3 riders up front but still used Valverde to chase down Contador. And Quintana only attcked Froome 100 m from the finish. Movistar are not riding for the win' (not an exact quote, but the essence of what he said).

I guess Riis is still biased but that's how I see it too.
He also criticized Tinkoff's tactics fwiw
Of course he did. Not that he was objective!!
Uh, it was actually quite objective the way he did it. But please tell me what you found unreasonable about his criticism?
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
BeagRigh said:
Cimber said:
Afrank said:
Eclipse said:
Can just see Contador hitting the deck in this

http://gfycat.com/CornySomberGuineafowl
Really hard to tell what exactly is happening. Did he flip over the handlebars? :(
According to eyewitnesses Rogers and Contador collided causin the crash....
It is very difficult to see if that gif but there could be two bodies there..
I think it's just Alberto, I was confused at first but it appears he's sliding on his right side.
But wtf it seems like he's pushing himself up while still sliding :confused: :eek:
That totally looks like he's sliding on his back after a front flip. Scary.
 

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