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Tour de France 2017 Stage 13: Saint-Girons > Foix 101 km

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Re: Re:

Arked said:
BigShoes said:
2. Landa is riding for himself and himself only. Froome knows it hence his chase after the final peak and Sky know it. Watch this space for further developments.

Landa was up the road for other GC contenders to chase and wear themselves down. It kinda worked. Froome tried to attack few times and shake off Aru but he didn't succeed. They also did some weak pulls after Martin attacked but I wouldn't call it chasing Landa. That's not what happened. Landa higher in GC is very strong card for Sky to play and they know it.

Too bad no one will bite until Landa is up at least 2 minutes on Froome. The other teams can do math as well.

If Landa pulls off a Pantani or Landis there's nothing you can do anyway.
 
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
 
Just watched the entire stage on delay. What a great day - these short stages really do look to be the future, however much they go against the purist race desing.

Quintana again involved in a long range attack - the guy is such a fighter, and now back in with a shot of the podium. Contador as well impressive in going all out for a stage win, just a shame he started his sprint a bit too early, but Barguil was surely big favourite anyway.

And Landa, has he gone rogue? Fingers crossed.
 
Hugo Koblet said:
How about, you know, attacking one time in his career? He already finished in the top 10 last year.
Maybe you should watch other races as well, not only the Tour de France. Meintjes attacked at the queen stage of this years Tour of the Basque Country, for instance. Link. I also remember at least one longe range suicide attack from him, at the U23 Worlds.
 
Re:

ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?

He's also had this once before. Would he be prepared to swallow throwing away his own chances again? Didn't lead to much, did it?
 
Re: Re:

Electress said:
DFA123 said:
ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?

He's also had this once before. Would he be prepared to swallow throwing away his own chances again? Didn't lead to much, did it?
Exactly, I think Sky have a decision to make. Either give him a free role as co-leader now in a semi-controlled way, or insist he works for Froome and risk him going for the win anyway, in a potentially destructive way.

He looks the strongest rider in the race right now and if he does his usual third week peak then he looks at least as good a bet as Froome to challenge Aru.
 
Re:

Fergoose said:
Well played by Aru if he read Froome was on a better day. Froome and Kwiat were as bad a duo as Aru and Fuglsang in a previous stage. When Kwiat had the gap on the descent Froome should have let him get much further ahead and try an aggressive bridge over instead of just slowly pulling everyone over to Kwiat's wheel. Good day for Uran also.

A little baffled by both Martin and Bardet. Bardet by really trying nothing and Martin by using up so much energy for so little potential upside.

Big gratitude to Contador for being willing to instigate a long range attack when nobody else in the top 15 is willing to instigate even a medium range effort. I won't be unhappy if he is rewarded with a stage later in the race.

Happy for Barguil too, he has put in some effort this tour. Notable that he was the match of his three companions today. Quite illustrious company even if none of them are on peak form.

Accurate analysis.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?

:D
 
fauniera said:
Hugo Koblet said:
How about, you know, attacking one time in his career? He already finished in the top 10 last year.
Maybe you should watch other races as well, not only the Tour de France. Meintjes attacked at the queen stage of this years Tour of the Basque Country, for instance. Link. I also remember at least one longe range suicide attack from him, at the U23 Worlds.
Oh ok, so he has attacked once in his career. Sorry I missed that one.
 
Re:

guncha said:
This stage exceeded my zero expectations despite top 4 (Aru, Froome, Bardet, Uran) finishing together.
However, Contador and Quitana should fade in Alpes. I don't think they are top 3 contenders.
Neverthelss, I am not a big fan of such designs and I hope it will not be a pattern. Peregue, Chat, Grand Colombier should be MTFs.
No to all three. Besides, like the Mortirolo, there isn't enough space at the top to do so.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Electress said:
DFA123 said:
ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?

He's also had this once before. Would he be prepared to swallow throwing away his own chances again? Didn't lead to much, did it?
Exactly, I think Sky have a decision to make. Either give him a free role as co-leader now in a semi-controlled way, or insist he works for Froome and risk him going for the win anyway, in a potentially destructive way.

He looks the strongest rider in the race right now and if he does his usual third week peak then he looks at least as good a bet as Froome to challenge Aru.

I'd prefer Landa to win the Tour then Froome, but come on, the guy is a minute behind him, and you can double, maybe even triple that margin with the 20 km ITT. Landa might take at least a minute out of Froome on each of the final two major mountain stages, but Sky would be CRAZY to bet on that. Plus he also has to be taking significant time out of Aru in the process.

And of Bardet. And of Uran.

Given that Mikel did the Giro, it's also more difficult to guarantee a third week peak like the 2015 Giro imo. So I don't think that even Mikel himself would be expecting the title of "co-leader" right now. But he should be a semi-protected helper. As he has been all the way through so far anyway.
 
Re: Re:

gregrowlerson said:
DFA123 said:
Electress said:
DFA123 said:
ontheroad said:
Given how Aru rode today (marking Froome all stage long) the obvious tactic for Sky now is to send Landa off the front again and leave the others to chase. Will they do this or just keep tempoing it out knowing that Froome will out TT them in the penultimate stage. There are a lot of variables now that the GC is so tight.
It depends if they are prepared for Landa to win the race I guess, because if he is given much rope on the Izoard or Galibier then he could well do so. Or maybe Landa will just do his own thing anyway - if you have perhaps your only ever chance to win the Tour and are probably leaving the team anyway; who cares about team orders?

He's also had this once before. Would he be prepared to swallow throwing away his own chances again? Didn't lead to much, did it?
Exactly, I think Sky have a decision to make. Either give him a free role as co-leader now in a semi-controlled way, or insist he works for Froome and risk him going for the win anyway, in a potentially destructive way.

He looks the strongest rider in the race right now and if he does his usual third week peak then he looks at least as good a bet as Froome to challenge Aru.

I'd prefer Landa to win the Tour then Froome, but come on, the guy is a minute behind him, and you can double, maybe even triple that margin with the 20 km ITT. Landa might take at least a minute out of Froome on each of the final two major mountain stages, but Sky would be CRAZY to bet on that. Plus he also has to be taking significant time out of Aru in the process.

And of Bardet. And of Uran.

Given that Mikel did the Giro, it's also more difficult to guarantee a third week peak like the 2015 Giro imo. So I don't think that even Mikel himself would be expecting the title of "co-leader" right now. But he should be a semi-protected helper. As he has been all the way through so far anyway.
Sure, it's certainly no given. But Froome looks so vulnerable, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him cracking and losing minutes on one of the Alpine stages. Especially if Landa is allowed to go from long range; or imagine Landa even with the entire Sky train at his disposal. He probably doesn't need much more than a minute on the other guys, unless Uran can find his old TT legs as well!
 
benzwire said:
I really like that they closed the final climb to roadside spectators. I think they should do it more often. What do you guys think?
Personally I think it takes away from the "spectacle" of the race and is doing the majority of the law/rule abiding roadside fans a serious injustice. Sure, they get involved a little too closely sometimes but that's the Tour and it has come to be expected by the riders over the years. Punishing all the fans for the actions of a select few that can't seem to act civil when a rider goes past is something that I don't subscribe to, and neither should anyone else. What's the next traditional aspect of a bike race to be removed due to a handful of unruly fans? Will the race route end up being closed for all, only to be viewed on the telecast that's loaded with commercials?

Place barricades along the final 3k's of an MTF and the final 1k of a sprint/intermediate stage, don't close it off altogether though. :confused:
 
Blanco said:
No, it's not easy to understand. Top 10 at Le Tour means much to him, he had 2 teammates in the main group, of course he's going to use them to protect his spot. What he should've done? Let his teammates to go back and ride at the back of the group? Guy rode his own race, I'm ok with that.
Some people on this board apparently think that it's not OK to chase your own goals if it influences the other riders and it's not OK that you want to finish as high as possible if you can't win. And it's a shame for a rider to work or use his team-mates if he just could screw the other riders insted. We all know what the sport should be about is everybody to make the leader's race as hard as possible and to increase the chance of him losing the race, not about maximising your own result. And if you dared not to attack, you just have to accept that a random guy who managed to sneak into the break when the leaders didn't care to cover the attack, will be gifted a GC time over guys like you, unless, of course, the leader or his team will bring him back on their own, because all other riders in the race are all supposed to be acting like a one big team riding against a certain guy. Your years of hard work and sacrifice to be up there climbing with 10 best road cycling riders in the world are not giving you a right to ride your own race, some guys sitting on the coach next to the TV screen are entitled to dictate you how you should be riding because they want to see the race that fits their own liking. And it's hopelessly disgusting that year after year we have some riders ignoring these holy rules of the cycling peleton. They should be permanently banned from the sport and imprisoned, together with their families, team-mates and the whole staff of every team they had ever been riding for.
 
You're way off the mark. The question was, is it understandable that some fans dislike riders who are insanely conservative and add nothing to the race, and only take the initiative to make the race worse as a spectacle?

Of course Meintjes can do whatever he wants within the rules. It's legitimate. It's also dreadful and dull and it won't win over many fans.
 
Anderis said:
Blanco said:
No, it's not easy to understand. Top 10 at Le Tour means much to him, he had 2 teammates in the main group, of course he's going to use them to protect his spot. What he should've done? Let his teammates to go back and ride at the back of the group? Guy rode his own race, I'm ok with that.
Some people on this board apparently think that it's not OK to chase your own goals if it influences the other riders and it's not OK that you want to finish as high as possible if you can't win. And it's a shame for a rider to work or use his team-mates if he just could screw the other riders insted. We all know what the sport should be about is everybody to make the leader's race as hard as possible and to increase the chance of him losing the race, not about maximising your own result. And if you dared not to attack, you just have to accept that a random guy who managed to sneak into the break when the leaders didn't care to cover the attack, will be gifted a GC time over guys like you, unless, of course, the leader or his team will bring him back on their own, because all other riders in the race are all supposed to be acting like a one big team riding against a certain guy. Your years of hard work and sacrifice to be up there climbing with 10 best road cycling riders in the world are not giving you a right to ride your own race, some guys sitting on the coach next to the TV screen are entitled to dictate you how you should be riding because they want to see the race that fits their own liking. And it's hopelessly disgusting that year after year we have some riders ignoring these holy rules of the cycling peleton. They should be permanently banned from the sport and imprisoned, together with their families, team-mates and the whole staff of every team they had ever been riding for.

Wow. What on earth brought that on?
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Sure, it's certainly no given. But Froome looks so vulnerable, I wouldn't be too surprised to see him cracking and losing minutes on one of the Alpine stages. Especially if Landa is allowed to go from long range; or imagine Landa even with the entire Sky train at his disposal. He probably doesn't need much more than a minute on the other guys, unless Uran can find his old TT legs as well!
froome looked SO vulnerable yesterday. after 13 stages on aggregate he still looks solid. it was quite difficult to expect him delolishing the entire field uphill after the average dauphine and not convincing season as a whole. landa can easily crack as well inspite of looking magnificent on previous 2 stages. what's a factor sky can't help but consider.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
You're way off the mark. The question was, is it understandable that some fans dislike riders who are insanely conservative and add nothing to the race, and only take the initiative to make the race worse as a spectacle?

Of course Meintjes can do whatever he wants within the rules. It's legitimate. It's also dreadful and dull and it won't win over many fans.
It's understandable. And it's equally understandable for other people to dislike the people who whing about that.
Of course people can write whatever they like within the rules. It's legitimate. It might also cause an overemphasised reply as a reaction.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
You're way off the mark. The question was, is it understandable that some fans dislike riders who are insanely conservative and add nothing to the race, and only take the initiative to make the race worse as a spectacle?

Of course Meintjes can do whatever he wants within the rules. It's legitimate. It's also dreadful and dull and it won't win over many fans.
Me and my brother legitimately got furious at Meintjens today, in a jokingly way of course. This guy add absolutely NOTHING to the race, zero, zilch, maybe 0,00000005. :p

Oh god the horror. He pisses me so much off for some reason. Other extremely conservative riders haven't done that, but that guy triggers me.
 

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