Tour de France 2017 Stage 14 : Blagnac > Rodez 181.5 km

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I think to celebrate like that you have to do it more than once. eg win a few classics, maybe a gold medal or something like that.
To fluke a win and only because of who's missing then carry on like you're world champion is not cool.

You sound like a bitter Sagan fan really. Lots of nonsense.
Specially the last sentence is just ridiculous. Sagan isn't here so what can he do about that? Sagan lost vs GVA 2 years ago and Matthews beats GVA today. This still doesn't mean anything, but 'what if's' are just a waste of time.

 

[trucido]

Despite the fact that Matthews is a [edited by mod], why can't he celebrate how he likes?

We already have virtual Contador, we don't need virtual Sagan too.

 

[Gloin22]

Re:

Despite the fact that Matthews is a turd, why can't he celebrate how he likes?

We already have virtual Contador, we don't need virtual Sagan too.

He can't celebrate a win because he completely fluked it by being the strongest. Deal with it :lol:

In fairness, I'm sure no one (most) cares how he celebrates but his celebration was indeed quite douchey and seeing how many in this forum don't like him one bit, it just reinforced the image.

 

[BigShoes]

Aru was already isolated far from the finish. He had to do everything alone. So he had no chance here.

Dan Martin had no help from his Quickstep team in todays final and he didn't drop any time, I think Aru has to take a lot of blame for this, yes having no team to help isn't great, but he could have made a better first of things a la Dan Martin.

What.

Martin got a perfect drag from Gilbert.

It was Sytbar that was tracking Gilbert. Martin stayed with alongside Froome from about 1k out all the way to the finish and on the opposite side of the road from Gilbert and Stybar.

 

[titan31]

Re: Re:

Astana is a most naive team, if they think they can challange for the win with the selection of riders they have. And Aru strikes me as rider with little race-intelligence (or is it just lack of experience?)

What riders usually fade in the third week; Froome? What riders retain their strength? Quintana?

Who should they have brought instead?

Someones who perferm better ;-) I just find it odd, that a team who shows up with the strong riders like Aru and Fuglsang, can't find helpers for those two, when needed on the road.

Kangert and Miguel Lopez weren't an option because of crashes, Cataldo also crashed out of the Tour, Tiralongo finished the Giro with a few cracked ribs, Zeits also did the Giro, Lulu also rode the Giro, Bilbao did the Giro and TdS, Lutsenko is hurt because of a crash and according to Martinelli Kozhatayev has a stomache bug.
Add the fact that Moreno Moser just started racing again at the Österreich Rundfahrt because of heath problems (OTL on the MTF), Scarponi's tragic death and the fact that Chernetckii hasn't done anything all year long and you get the reason why.
The original plan was to have Aru at the Giro, they still had the rest of his team ride the Giro after his crash, and Fuglsang at the Tour with Lopez and Kangert (who has ridden the double a few times in recent years) as the strong climbers to support him, but tons of crashes happened and this is the result.

Should have pulled Sanchez out of Giro when Aru couldn't do it imo. He's always been a great domestique and equally able to help in the mountains as he can on the flat. I know they're a Kazakh team and everything, but they have better riders on their roster that they could have saved for the Tour instead of Kozhatayev and Gruzdev. I'd personally have swapped those 2 to the Giro and taken Sanchez and Bilbao to the Tour. Would give you Zeits, Valgren, Lutsenko, Grivko and Sanchez on the flat, and Sanchez, Bilbao, Cataldo and Fuglsang for the mountains, along with Aru.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Astana is a most naive team, if they think they can challange for the win with the selection of riders they have. And Aru strikes me as rider with little race-intelligence (or is it just lack of experience?)

What riders usually fade in the third week; Froome? What riders retain their strength? Quintana?

Who should they have brought instead?

Someones who perferm better ;-) I just find it odd, that a team who shows up with the strong riders like Aru and Fuglsang, can't find helpers for those two, when needed on the road.

Kangert and Miguel Lopez weren't an option because of crashes, Cataldo also crashed out of the Tour, Tiralongo finished the Giro with a few cracked ribs, Zeits also did the Giro, Lulu also rode the Giro, Bilbao did the Giro and TdS, Lutsenko is hurt because of a crash and according to Martinelli Kozhatayev has a stomache bug.
Add the fact that Moreno Moser just started racing again at the Österreich Rundfahrt because of heath problems (OTL on the MTF), Scarponi's tragic death and the fact that Chernetckii hasn't done anything all year long and you get the reason why.
The original plan was to have Aru at the Giro, they still had the rest of his team ride the Giro after his crash, and Fuglsang at the Tour with Lopez and Kangert (who has ridden the double a few times in recent years) as the strong climbers to support him, but tons of crashes happened and this is the result.

Should have pulled Sanchez out of Giro when Aru couldn't do it imo. He's always been a great domestique and equally able to help in the mountains as he can on the flat. I know they're a Kazakh team and everything, but they have better riders on their roster that they could have saved for the Tour instead of Kozhatayev and Gruzdev. I'd personally have swapped those 2 to the Giro and taken Sanchez and Bilbao to the Tour. Would give you Zeits, Valgren, Lutsenko, Grivko and Sanchez on the flat, and Sanchez, Bilbao, Cataldo and Fuglsang for the mountains, along with Aru.

Yes, that would have been reasonable.
Kozhatayev actually rode a good RdS and on stage 9 he was the last man to stay with Aru and Fuglsang, the guy has some potential as a strong climbing domestique, but the level at the Tour is probably a bit too high for him and now he's also sick.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Astana just had an unreasonable amount of bad luck. If they had a team with Lopez, Fuglsang, Lutsenko, Cataldo and Valgren and no bad luck they would be better than AG2R.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Re: Re:

//forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2153545#p2153545]nilfen[/url]"]Astana is a most naive team, if they think they can challange for the win with the selection of riders they have. And Aru strikes me as rider with little race-intelligence (or is it just lack of experience?)

What riders usually fade in the third week; Froome? What riders retain their strength? Quintana?[/quote]
Who should they have brought instead? [/quote]

Someones who perferm better ;-) I just find it odd, that a team who shows up with the strong riders like Aru and Fuglsang, can't find helpers for those two, when needed on the road.[/quote]
Kangert and Miguel Lopez weren't an option because of crashes, Cataldo also crashed out of the Tour, Tiralongo finished the Giro with a few cracked ribs, Zeits also did the Giro, Lulu also rode the Giro, Bilbao did the Giro and TdS, Lutsenko is hurt because of a crash and according to Martinelli Kozhatayev has a stomache bug.
Add the fact that Moreno Moser just started racing again at the Österreich Rundfahrt because of heath problems (OTL on the MTF), Scarponi's tragic death and the fact that Chernetckii hasn't done anything all year long and you get the reason why.
The original plan was to have Aru at the Giro, they still had the rest of his team ride the Giro after his crash, and Fuglsang at the Tour with Lopez and Kangert (who has ridden the double a few times in recent years) as the strong climbers to support him, but tons of crashes happened and this is the result.[/quote]

Should have pulled Sanchez out of Giro when Aru couldn't do it imo. He's always been a great domestique and equally able to help in the mountains as he can on the flat. I know they're a Kazakh team and everything, but they have better riders on their roster that they could have saved for the Tour instead of Kozhatayev and Gruzdev. I'd personally have swapped those 2 to the Giro and taken Sanchez and Bilbao to the Tour. Would give you Zeits, Valgren, Lutsenko, Grivko and Sanchez on the flat, and Sanchez, Bilbao, Cataldo and Fuglsang for the mountains, along with Aru.[/quote]
Yes, that would have been reasonable.
Kozhatayev actually rode a good RdS and on stage 9 he was the last man to stay with Aru and Fuglsang, the guy has some potential as a strong climbing domestique, but the level at the Tour is probably a bit too high for him and now he's also sick.[/quote]

Kozhatayev has a stomach problem, before he was riding okay in the mountains.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Astana being less strong means a better race here. It forces Aru to play the game very smartly but at the same time being also very aggressive in his type of terrain.

But if Sky is too strong team wise, well thats always a killer.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

I don't think Aru can have any excuses here. Should have fought tooth and nail to be up at the front.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

I don't think Aru can have any excuses here. Should have fought tooth and nail to be up at the front.

Agree. Aru is showing some cracks and he is massively vulnerable in the TT. When Aru won the Vuelta he had the services of a rider like Landa. Now the Landa shoe is on the other foot (Sky) and Astana are looking vulnerable. This and after his lackluster ride today he also looks vulnerable for the remaining mountains.

But I don't get the hate for Matthews here. I must have missed something.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re:

I don't think Aru can have any excuses here. Should have fought tooth and nail to be up at the front.

His excuse is that he only had 9 days racing in the previous 3 - 4 months before the Tour due to that knee injury and therefore he doesn't have that bank of work that you need to avoid bad days. In a way it was lucky that it wasn't a more important stage, otherwise he'd have lost 2 minutes instead of 20ish seconds

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

I don't think Aru can have any excuses here. Should have fought tooth and nail to be up at the front.

Agree. Aru is showing some cracks and he is massively vulnerable in the TT. When Aru won the Vuelta he had the services of a rider like Landa. Now the Landa shoe is on the other foot (Sky) and Astana are looking vulnerable. This and after his lackluster ride today he also looks vulnerable for the remaining mountains.

But I don't get the hate for Matthews here. I must have missed something.

Matthews is a defensive wheelsucking coward at the bike which he learned from his master Gerro at Orica.
But this tour he finally shows some initiative, must be the change of teams. Deserved win today.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Oh ffs Fabio Aru. This was worse than when Gilbert won in 2015 during the Giro.

 

[DanielSong39]

Froome had a bad 300m in stage 12; Aru had a bad 5km in stage 14.

It's part of racing.

Aru is lucky he didn't lose more time.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

I don't think Aru can have any excuses here. Should have fought tooth and nail to be up at the front.

Agree. Aru is showing some cracks and he is massively vulnerable in the TT. When Aru won the Vuelta he had the services of a rider like Landa. Now the Landa shoe is on the other foot (Sky) and Astana are looking vulnerable. This and after his lackluster ride today he also looks vulnerable for the remaining mountains.

But I don't get the hate for Matthews here. I must have missed something.

Matthews is a defensive wheelsucking coward at the bike which he learned from his master Gerro at Orica.
But this tour he finally shows some initiative, must be the change of teams. Deserved win today.

Okay, thanks, wheelsucking eh? Of course every racer knows you should always give away the possible win rather than wheel suck . Its never the fault of the other riders who ride tactically poor is it? Ridiculous, makes me wonder if some here have ever raced a bike.

Gerrans win over Fabian at San Remo was well deserved as his sustained wattage on the Poggio proved, not his fault Cancellara underestimated Gerrans ability to hold that wattage for a few minutes and that he saves 30% in the slipstream.

I was once a strong rider who thought he could ride off the front of my club bunch but eventually worked out no matter how strong you are you need to ride smart, learn when to attack and save energy. Races are not always won by the strongest - that's what TTs are for. Today's Matthews was equally deserving glad you admit this.

 

[DanielSong39]

Matthews wheelsucked big time but that's part of the sport. Ask Aru how easy that is.

 

[Tank Engine]

Astana's team has been really depleted and the last two days over rolling terrain have been difficult for Aru, since team help was necessary. The loss of the Yellow Jersey was probably due to a combination of bad legs and lack of team support.

The only chance that Aru has to challenge for yellow is if today was just a bad day and he can hold out until the high mountains, where (without the yellow jersey) forming an alliance of convenience and good legs will be more important to distancing Froome than team support. Doesn't look good for him though.

I've never said this before (I think), but Matthews deserved that win. The celebration seemed rather presemptious though. If Greg hadn't been cooked, Bling could have ended up looking like a real idiot.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Matthews is gonna get his stage. Degenkolb to do good.

Oracle. You called it.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Matthews wheelsucked big time but that's part of the sport. Ask Aru how easy that is.

I watched the German feed, and when they first showed Aru in the final couple hundred meters, he looked as if he was riding on Alpe D'Huez. He didn't look good. I don't doubt that he was daydreaming in the final minutes of the stage, but maybe he's beginning to feel it in the legs as well. I could be completely wrong, but sometimes when you are tired your reactions slow down. I wonder at what point he lost contact.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Re:

Matthews wheelsucked big time but that's part of the sport. Ask Aru how easy that is.

I watched the German feed, and when they first showed Aru in the final couple hundred meters, he looked as if he was riding on Alpe D'Huez. He didn't look good. I don't doubt that he was daydreaming in the final minutes of the stage, but maybe he's beginning to feel it in the legs as well. I could be completely wrong, but sometimes when you are tired your reactions slow down. I wonder at what point he lost contact.

Aru was tired and probably gave it all he had (which wasn't enough on this day).

With that said cyclists are known to have good days and bad days. Quintana and Contador looked like roadkill in stage 12 and gained 2 minutes in stage 13. Froome looked silly for 300m in stage 12 and looked sharp the last couple of stages. It happens.

 

[Brullnux]

It's a pity aru lost his jersey because as we know, having the strongest team's leader 2nd or 3rd in GC makes for an excellent race

Now Kwiat and Nieve and Landa will keep a tight grip on the race.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Astana is a most naive team, if they think they can challange for the win with the selection of riders they have. And Aru strikes me as rider with little race-intelligence (or is it just lack of experience?)

What riders usually fade in the third week; Froome? What riders retain their strength? Quintana?

When Cataldo and Fugl are out due to injuries it's hard to complain about the team selection. Not to mention Kanget usually does the double and would be here if he'd not been injured. There are only so many top climbers in the world.

But it is not the climbers they lack. It's the riders for the flat and the last 10-20 kms

According to Valgren that's not the case. Aru refused to get on his wheel and move up.

That's not what I heard, it was more like Aru couldn't hold his wheel. He'd turn around and he wasn't there. Where did Valgren finish? Snotty Pr*ck!

 

[Keram]

Re: Re:

Lets not forget Sagan would've won this stage easily had he not been unjustly DQ'd

for the wheel sucker to over celebrate like that is kind of crass

Why? Sagan is not in the race since 10 days, and didn't win against GVA in 2015.

you forgot stage 3 already? :lol:

Different kind of uphill sprints.

In which way? You need to be really good at short hills and be explosive at booth.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Astana is a most naive team, if they think they can challange for the win with the selection of riders they have. And Aru strikes me as rider with little race-intelligence (or is it just lack of experience?)

What riders usually fade in the third week; Froome? What riders retain their strength? Quintana?

When Cataldo and Fugl are out due to injuries it's hard to complain about the team selection. Not to mention Kanget usually does the double and would be here if he'd not been injured. There are only so many top climbers in the world.

But it is not the climbers they lack. It's the riders for the flat and the last 10-20 kms

According to Valgren that's not the case. Aru refused to get on his wheel and move up.

That's not what I heard, it was more like Aru couldn't hold his wheel. He'd turn around and he wasn't there. Where did Valgren finish? Snotty Pr*ck!

Valgren finished 91st, nearly two minutes down on Aru so I don't know how true it is