Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier 183k

[Sestriere]

Why all this Kittel hate?
Wouldn't it be really boring if the fastest sprinter would also be the best climber among the fast men? I personally think that it's very entertaining to have two very different riders fighting for the green jersey who are also willing to work with their teams for this goal. Without this fight today's stage would have been pretty dull until the last 20 km.
So why are people constantly complaining that he is such a limited bike rider, hoping for him to miss the time cut? I hope to see a good competition for green in the last week. With Kittel out that would be Matthews "vs" Greipel...

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re:

Why all this Kittel hate?
Wouldn't it be really boring if the fastest sprinter would also be the best climber among the fast men? I personally think that it's very entertaining to have two very different riders fighting for the green jersey who are also willing to work with their teams for this goal. Without this fight today's stage would have been pretty dull until the last 20 km.
So why are people constantly complaining that he is such a limited bike rider, hoping for him to miss the time cut? I hope to see a good competition for green in the last week. With Kittel out that would be Matthews "vs" Greipel...

I don't hate Kittel I just think that Sunweb are likely to try to set a hard pace.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

Matthews will win the sprint prize. Break wins. Kamikaze attacks from the likes of Contador because why not but Sky will control the race more or less until the final 5km of Galibier. We will see some poor attacks but the GC group stays intact for the most part. A group of 5-8 GC guys roll over the line together about 3-6 minutes behind the eventual winner.

Sadly I think you're right. I hope not, but this seems the most likely. Fear of the Izoard the following day will suppress things a bit as well.

 

[MightyWheelSucker]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Stage was basically done already in 1993...huge gaps that year. Glandon, T & G...

1. Tony Rominger 5:28:52
2. Alvaro Mejia
3. Miguel Indurain
4. Andy Hampsten 1:13
5. Zenon Jaskula
6. Erik Breukink 3:32
7. Oliviero Rincon
8. Richard Virenque 4:35
9. Roberto Conti
10. Javier Mauleon

Some other notable results from that stage:

12. Mottet, at 5:04
13. Delgado, at 5:04
18. Zulle, at 6:57
19. Riis, at 7:21
20. Fignon, at 7:42
21. Bugno, at 7:42
27. Roche, at 8:49
29. Chiappucci, at 8:49
86. Armstrong, at 21:42
87. Millar, at 21:42

If I remember correctly, Fignon discusses this stage in his autobiography, saying that he had planned to go for a stage win like his one into Mulhouse the previous year. Instead, he found that even mediocre riders were passing him. (I like to think that he had Riis in particular in mind.) That's when he knew the game had changed.

The next day, Fignon dropped out, effectively ending his career: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLmtFH4AEk

Yes I still remember that well, epic! Chiappucci and Bugno dropped like a stone by Big Mig!

Rominger might have stopped Miguel that year if not for misfortune in the early TTs.

But racing (and other matters) were a bit different in 1993 compared to 2017

Actually Rominger lost because 2 of teammates crushed on one of early stages. On 4th was 80km TTT where his team lost 3.5 min to winners (GB MG) and 2 min to Banesto. This caused Rominger landed in about 70 place and when it came down to first ITT (64 km) he rode in biggest rain which ceased later when Mig and other contenders started. Rominger still was 4th with about 2.5 min loss. The last ITT was won by Rominger so he was absolutely able to win this Tour.
But mentioned Galibier stage was a shocker even in those times. Rominger pulling half of Telegraph-Galibier combo, all differences made practically on Galibier itself.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Landa to grab the stage and maillot jaune tomorrow. I can see it happening if rumours are true he will mark Contador, however, if thats just 'marking' and not cooperating that could be another thing. Funny thing, LeMond told him to screw Froome and Sky and go for it. Not surprising given how 85 and 86 turned out for Greg! Take no prisoners, Mikel!

 

[Sestriere]

Re: Re:

Why all this Kittel hate?
Wouldn't it be really boring if the fastest sprinter would also be the best climber among the fast men? I personally think that it's very entertaining to have two very different riders fighting for the green jersey who are also willing to work with their teams for this goal. Without this fight today's stage would have been pretty dull until the last 20 km.
So why are people constantly complaining that he is such a limited bike rider, hoping for him to miss the time cut? I hope to see a good competition for green in the last week. With Kittel out that would be Matthews "vs" Greipel...

I don't hate Kittel I just think that Sunweb are likely to try to set a hard pace.

This wasn't specifically directed to you, but rather in general as many posters expressed their hopes for him to miss the time cut or their extreme dislike or hate in this threat and also in today's stage threat.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Re: Re:

Why all this Kittel hate?
Wouldn't it be really boring if the fastest sprinter would also be the best climber among the fast men? I personally think that it's very entertaining to have two very different riders fighting for the green jersey who are also willing to work with their teams for this goal. Without this fight today's stage would have been pretty dull until the last 20 km.
So why are people constantly complaining that he is such a limited bike rider, hoping for him to miss the time cut? I hope to see a good competition for green in the last week. With Kittel out that would be Matthews "vs" Greipel...

I don't hate Kittel I just think that Sunweb are likely to try to set a hard pace.

This wasn't specifically directed to you, but rather in general as many posters expressed their hopes for him to miss the time cut or their extreme dislike or hate in this threat and also in today's stage threat.

I'd also like if Sunweb tries to make him OTL, it's racing and it's the Tour, no free rides. If he gets DQed, then he didn't deserve to win the green jersey and finish the Tour. If he however makes the time limit and win the jersey in Paris, he fully deserves it.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Why all this Kittel hate?
Wouldn't it be really boring if the fastest sprinter would also be the best climber among the fast men? I personally think that it's very entertaining to have two very different riders fighting for the green jersey who are also willing to work with their teams for this goal. Without this fight today's stage would have been pretty dull until the last 20 km.
So why are people constantly complaining that he is such a limited bike rider, hoping for him to miss the time cut? I hope to see a good competition for green in the last week. With Kittel out that would be Matthews "vs" Greipel...

I don't hate Kittel at all. I am just enjoying the fight for green between not a top sprinter (that is decent sprinter that can climb) and a top sprinter.

 

[dgodave]

No solo attacks unless its to bridge to a break.

Instead we'll have blazing tempo up the big climbs.

Attrition, not attacking, given the run out after the final descent.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Stage was basically done already in 1993...huge gaps that year. Glandon, T & G...

1. Tony Rominger 5:28:52
2. Alvaro Mejia
3. Miguel Indurain
4. Andy Hampsten 1:13
5. Zenon Jaskula
6. Erik Breukink 3:32
7. Oliviero Rincon
8. Richard Virenque 4:35
9. Roberto Conti
10. Javier Mauleon

Some other notable results from that stage:

12. Mottet, at 5:04
13. Delgado, at 5:04
18. Zulle, at 6:57
19. Riis, at 7:21
20. Fignon, at 7:42
21. Bugno, at 7:42
27. Roche, at 8:49
29. Chiappucci, at 8:49
86. Armstrong, at 21:42
87. Millar, at 21:42

If I remember correctly, Fignon discusses this stage in his autobiography, saying that he had planned to go for a stage win like his one into Mulhouse the previous year. Instead, he found that even mediocre riders were passing him. (I like to think that he had Riis in particular in mind.) That's when he knew the game had changed.

The next day, Fignon dropped out, effectively ending his career: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLmtFH4AEk

Yes I still remember that well, epic! Chiappucci and Bugno dropped like a stone by Big Mig!

Rominger might have stopped Miguel that year if not for misfortune in the early TTs.

But racing (and other matters) were a bit different in 1993 compared to 2017

Actually Rominger lost because 2 of teammates crushed on one of early stages. On 4th was 80km TTT where his team lost 3.5 min to winners (GB MG) and 2 min to Banesto. This caused Rominger landed in about 70 place and when it came down to first ITT (64 km) he rode in biggest rain which ceased later when Mig and other contenders started. Rominger still was 4th with about 2.5 min loss. The last ITT was won by Rominger so he was absolutely able to win this Tour.
But mentioned Galibier stage was a shocker even in those times. Rominger pulling half of Telegraph-Galibier combo, all differences made practically on Galibier itself.

Thanks I couldn't remember the exact details how Rominger got delayed in those TTs. Yes he was playing catch up the rest of that Tour and yes I also remember that last TT well where he crushed Big Mig on his own playing field. Sadly the Swiss underdog couldn't make up for what he gave up in the first week and Miguel was strong enough to hold on to all of Rominger's attacks in the Pyrenees. It was the first time I had seen Indurain really grimace in pain.

Unfortunately despite the promise of 93, Rominger couldn't do any better in 94 or 95. He finally beat Miguel to Paris in 96 but so did a few others when they missed the break to Pamplona.

 

[bonaqua]

Weather forecast for Col du Lautaret:

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/week/col-du-lautaret_france_3005951

It might rain in the afternoon. From Col du Lautaret to Le Monêtier-les-Bains looks like side headwind from SW. The descent from Lautaret to Le Monêtier is quite straight and very fast usually, not technical or steep. After Le Monêtier road flattens a bit. I usually travel and ride or go ski touring there during spring time (March - April).

Strava segment from Lautaret to Le Monêtier:

https://www.strava.com/segments/6022006

High hopes for tomorrow's stage but weather might play a role. I suppose that on top of Col du Galibier at least 15 - 20s gap is needed for good descender to ride solo and win the stage.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Expect a repeat of stage 9 - top guys to race together on final descent. Dan M might well suffer big losses, Quintana too. All teams will want men up the road so it'll be a fast start.
Froome says he's feeling good so will it be full "washing machine centrifuge" tomorrow?

 

[fauniera]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAWXq2_QWsM

Fignon

 

[Tank Engine]

The end game is upon us and tomorrow there will be a battle both for the yellow jersey and for green (Barguil has sewn up the KOM competition and Meintjes could only be able to win the white jersey by holding on to the top GC guys when Yates can't and I don't think that's likely). Tomorrow's stage looks more threatening to Kittel's hopes than Thursday's, since it's up and down pretty much from the start. Sunweb will try and set up Matthews for the intermediate sprint. AG2R will send riders up the road to support Bardet if he manages to break away from Froome. An ambush is possible and alliances of convenience may follow (Aru and Bardet would have the most to gain).

However, I think that in the end it will be a day of attrition. Sky have the strongest set of climbers. A breakaway winner is possible, but I expect most of the guys who were present at the end of the big pyrenean stage to be close together at the end of this stage). Winner? Barguil has a good chance, but I'll go for a bounce back by Danny boy.

 

[Juan Pelota]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Stage was basically done already in 1993...huge gaps that year. Glandon, T & G...

1. Tony Rominger 5:28:52
2. Alvaro Mejia
3. Miguel Indurain
4. Andy Hampsten 1:13
5. Zenon Jaskula
6. Erik Breukink 3:32
7. Oliviero Rincon
8. Richard Virenque 4:35
9. Roberto Conti
10. Javier Mauleon

Interesting!

 

[Singer01]

For the life of me i can't understand why they treat Galibier as 2 seperate climbs.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

These are two cols, and with a small descent in between, it's two "ascensions".

It may go very fast from the get-go and make a win from the BOD impossible. Three minutes at the foot of the Telegraphe wouldn't nearly be enough. Before they run out of time, Froome's challengers must do something. I expect fireworks. The Izoard stage will be easier to control for Sky.

The 5-10 guys , Martin and Yates in particular, could attack and see who's willing to chase. The time has come to go for 5th instead of 10th. Much more respectable.

 

[deValtos]

I think Sky will let the break go to take away the bonus seconds at the end, though still control the stage somewhat of course. Only Bardets team can make the stage win available if required.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Landa to grab the stage and maillot jaune tomorrow. I can see it happening if rumours are true he will mark Contador, however, if thats just 'marking' and not cooperating that could be another thing. Funny thing, LeMond told him to screw Froome and Sky and go for it. Not surprising given how 85 and 86 turned out for Greg! Take no prisoners, Mikel!

LOL bertie is finished in the tour, he can't climb as good as Landa

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Re:

For the life of me i can't understand why they treat Galibier as 2 seperate climbs.

Tradition I guess. The Telegraphe itself is relevant enough to make it a landmark and, as such, a standalone climb. Not sure if I agree with it but I've seen worse (see the first climb from this year's Colombier stage).

Banking on Bardet for this one. Seems tailor-made to him other than the road flattening out at the end. It'll be Sky controlled surely, but Telegraphe+Galibier is definitely hard enough after the CdF to guarantee it's just Froome, Landa and, at best Nieve past the Telegraphe if they have to control the stage before.

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Kittel won't be OTL. He is not climbing worse than most other riders who will be present in the gruppetto. No way they are gonna dump most sprinters out of the tour just before Paris.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Re:

Kittel won't be OTL. He is not climbing worse than most other riders who will be present in the gruppetto. No way they are gonna dump most sprinters out of the tour just before Paris.

They threw out Demare (true, he wasn't in such a large grupetto) and Kittel got shelled out on a Cat 3 today. If he gets dropped early, I wouldn't put it past them. I defended Kittel against the hate being leveled at him unreasonaly on the stage thread today, but if he's OTL and behind the grupetto (I accept the grupetto as an acceptable tactic to avoid being OTL, by historical precedent) then he should be out, no questions. You gotta make it to Paris.

EDIT: typo

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Landa to grab the stage and maillot jaune tomorrow. I can see it happening if rumours are true he will mark Contador, however, if thats just 'marking' and not cooperating that could be another thing. Funny thing, LeMond told him to screw Froome and Sky and go for it. Not surprising given how 85 and 86 turned out for Greg! Take no prisoners, Mikel!

Slaying the Dawg...I'll buy the book . Vamos Mikel...

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Re: Re:

Kittel won't be OTL. He is not climbing worse than most other riders who will be present in the gruppetto. No way they are gonna dump most sprinters out of the tour just before Paris.

They threw out Demare (true, he wasn't in such a large grupetto) and Kittel got shelled out on a Cat 3 today. If he gets dropped early, I wouldn't put it past them. I defended Kittel against the hate being leveled at him unreasonaly on the stage thread today, but if he's OTL and behind the grupetto (I accept the grupetto as an acceptable tactic to avoid being OTL, by hystorical precedent) then he should be out, no questions. You gotta make it to Paris.

Of course, if it's a group of about 10 riders with Kittel in it he is going home. But if it's a grupetto of 40 a 50 riders with the likes of Kittel, Greipel, Bouhanni, Groenewegen, Degenkolb etc. no way they are gonna send that bunch of riders home. QS will make sure he will be in that grupetto.

 

[staubsauger]

Problem is Kittel might be ill.