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Tour de France 2017 Stage 18: Briançon - Izoard, 179.5kms

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Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Gigs_98 said:
Ruby United said:
Arredondo said:
How bad will Valverde feel atm? He could have won this race. Froome is nowhere near his level of the past years.

It's just that the competition is at a low now. I have never seen such poor rivalry since .... i don't know really :(

I'm a big fan of Valverde's abilities, but no ways would he have won this race.
Hypothetics are a waste of time, especially when you are so wrong.
I'm impressed that in one sentence you managed criticize speculation and speculate as well.
There is simply no way we could know if Valverde had been able to win this tour but it's obvious that Valverde in this sprint was stronger than ever wile Froome has looked quite weak compared to previous years.

If Valverde feels bad how does Porte feel ? And Dan Martin who was affected by the same crash.
I completely agree that Porte should feel bad too. Especially since he might have been able to gain or at least not lose time to Froome in the stage 20 ITT.
 
Barguil is the sole bright light in this gloomy Tour, It's about on par with 2012 I'd say, with all the mishaps and decimated field, 2012 have a more boring competition for GC and it didn't have Barguil, but this one is worse in many other ways. I don't know if I should be glad or get angry it's over before I find anything worth the hours watching. Even a bad GT usually left some images in my head, this one has none, except maybe some seconds in Peyragudes, and that's irrelevant anyway. Uran miraculously spanking Froome in the TT won't change how shitty this edition is.
 
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Nathan Brown said in interview for velonews yesterday they were going after podium. So Colombian holiday or not Uran not attacking was no surprise.
 
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PremierAndrew said:
Funny how Froome attacked more than Uran today, when he had nothing to gain by doing so

...and by attacking just before the short descent, Froome was never getting away. Shut down his own team-mate's move nicely though.
 
I think the best way to look at Bardet and Uran is to contrast them with Martin and Aru. The latter two lacked the strength of the former two, but stil consistently attacked when they could, rode aggressively and tried to win the race. They will look back with no regrets, knowing that they did all they could. Bardet and Uran on the other hand, just followed wheels and rode with the primary intention of making sure they didn't blow themselves up.

Ultimately, Bardet and Uran may be racking up more podiums from this Tour. But it's no coincidence that Martin and Aru are the racers with the big wins on their palmares. And will be the ones looking back on their careers with no regrets.
 
Chapeau to Barguil. Showed plenty of class and panache today.

The Uran discussion is so asinine. Dude took his pulls. He wasn't the best climber here. Fourth or fifth best, most likely. He's doing the best he can. Chapeau to him.

Also, if Nairo had ridden like Bardet (who likely was the best climber here, bar maybe Barguil) did, some of those now praising Bardet would be flaming him for not attacking more. Goes to show how ridiculous, or worse, the "attacking rider" discussion can get. As a rider, I think he did what he could. Good job by him and AG2R on thay front. The lying and the cheating and the wining I could do without.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Arredondo said:
How bad will Valverde feel atm? He could have won this race. Froome is nowhere near his level of the past years.

It's just that the competition is at a low now. I have never seen such poor rivalry since .... i don't know really :(
Yep, really poor GC standard this year. I think Bardet and Uran will look back at this and really regret not having at least tried to do a longer range attack or some other tactical move. This may well be their one shot at winning the biggest race in the world, and neither had the balls to really go for it.

WE all knew the Giro would have a stronger GC field than the TDF and I suspect the Vuelta field will also be stronger than the TDF.
 
Great race by Barguil, giving out some serious Virenque vibes.

Congratulations to Froom, the only worthy winner of this race. Bardet and Uran just weren't good enough.

Also you have to feel for Aru. Tried really hard to win early on in the race but unfortunately his form is not as good. You could see how deep he had to dig to get back on.
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
I think the best way to look at Bardet and Uran is to contrast them with Martin and Aru. The latter two lacked the strength of the former two, but stil consistently attacked when they could, rode aggressively and tried to win the race. They will look back with no regrets, knowing that they did all they could. Bardet and Uran on the other hand, just followed wheels and rode with the primary intention of making sure they didn't blow themselves up.

Ultimately, Bardet and Uran may be racking up more podiums from this Tour. But it's no coincidence that Martin and Aru are the racers with the big wins on their palmares. And will be the ones looking back on their careers with no regrets.

Bardet couldn't have done much more. He attacked more than last year and used up his team to try and weaken Sky and it didn't work.
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
wwabbit said:
masking_agent said:
Uran, what an utter disappointment

Oh really? At the start of this season if someone said that Uran will be 2nd placed at the TDF, everyone will be calling him nuts.

THIS. Geez the guy is riding Way Over expectations and all people do is throw abuse at him. Great ride Rigo. Have a great ITT and podium the TdF!

Yes by far his best GT ride since the 2014 Giro.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
DFA123 said:
I think the best way to look at Bardet and Uran is to contrast them with Martin and Aru. The latter two lacked the strength of the former two, but stil consistently attacked when they could, rode aggressively and tried to win the race. They will look back with no regrets, knowing that they did all they could. Bardet and Uran on the other hand, just followed wheels and rode with the primary intention of making sure they didn't blow themselves up.

Ultimately, Bardet and Uran may be racking up more podiums from this Tour. But it's no coincidence that Martin and Aru are the racers with the big wins on their palmares. And will be the ones looking back on their careers with no regrets.

Bardet couldn't have done much more. He attacked more than last year and used up his team to try and weaken Sky and it didn't work.
I disagree, I think he could have won this race. There was the great opportunity where Froome had the mechanical and Bardet didn't risk using him team up. Then he generally waited until the last 2-3km to do an attack. Today especially, he simply had to go once his team had finished their pulls with about 7km to go; that was the chance to break the race apart. If he wanted to win the race, he had to try something there, just to try to isolate Froome for a later attack if nothin else. Instead, he passively drifted back and let Sky regain all control of the race.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
I disagree, I think he could have won this race. There was the great opportunity where Froome had the mechanical and Bardet didn't risk using him team up. Then he generally waited until the last 2-3km to do an attack. Today especially, he simply had to go once his team had finished their pulls with about 7km to go; that was the chance to break the race apart. If he wanted to win the race, he had to try something there, just to try to isolate Froome for a later attack if nothin else. Instead, he passively drifted back and let Sky regain all control of the race.

Yeah, that's it. He just didn't want to win the race. Spot-on analysis. Sometimes it's so easy... :eek:
 
Re: Re:

Bye Bye Bicycle said:
DFA123 said:
I disagree, I think he could have won this race. There was the great opportunity where Froome had the mechanical and Bardet didn't risk using him team up. Then he generally waited until the last 2-3km to do an attack. Today especially, he simply had to go once his team had finished their pulls with about 7km to go; that was the chance to break the race apart. If he wanted to win the race, he had to try something there, just to try to isolate Froome for a later attack if nothin else. Instead, he passively drifted back and let Sky regain all control of the race.

Yeah, that's it. He just didn't want to win the race. Spot-on analysis. Sometimes it's so easy... :eek:
Well, you've spectacularly missed the point. Of course he wanted to win, but he was too cowardly to take the risks needed to win it. To have the chance of making Froome crack and blow up, he had to be willing to risk cracking himself - yet he wasn't prepared to take that risk on a single stage. Which is probably why his palmares is littered with loads of podiums and top 10 placings, but very, very few wins.
 
Re: Re:

GraftPunk said:
Alexandre B. said:
Arredondo said:
How bad will Valverde feel atm? He could have won this race. Froome is nowhere near his level of the past years.

It's just that the competition is at a low now. I have never seen such poor rivalry since .... i don't know really :(
http://www.climbing-records.com/2017/07/barguil-sets-tremendous-record-on-izoard.html
What a low competition! :rolleyes:

Eek!

Isn't this the first time the Izoard is a MtF - even the last climb actually? Highly misleading take. Apples and oranges.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
movingtarget said:
DFA123 said:
I think the best way to look at Bardet and Uran is to contrast them with Martin and Aru. The latter two lacked the strength of the former two, but stil consistently attacked when they could, rode aggressively and tried to win the race. They will look back with no regrets, knowing that they did all they could. Bardet and Uran on the other hand, just followed wheels and rode with the primary intention of making sure they didn't blow themselves up.

Ultimately, Bardet and Uran may be racking up more podiums from this Tour. But it's no coincidence that Martin and Aru are the racers with the big wins on their palmares. And will be the ones looking back on their careers with no regrets.

Bardet couldn't have done much more. He attacked more than last year and used up his team to try and weaken Sky and it didn't work.
I disagree, I think he could have won this race. There was the great opportunity where Froome had the mechanical and Bardet didn't risk using him team up. Then he generally waited until the last 2-3km to do an attack. Today especially, he simply had to go once his team had finished their pulls with about 7km to go; that was the chance to break the race apart. If he wanted to win the race, he had to try something there, just to try to isolate Froome for a later attack if nothin else. Instead, he passively drifted back and let Sky regain all control of the race.

Didn't Aru attack once the entire Tour? Plus that promptly dropped attack when Froome had a mechanical?
 
The facts: Bardet DID attack, and was pulled back without problems by Froome.

So my guess is: he just didn't have the legs.

But you have found out something else: he just didn't want to win and he was "too cowardly to take the risks needed to win it". Hard to argue against such a rock-solid analysis...
 
Re: Re:

Bullrun said:
GraftPunk said:
Alexandre B. said:
Arredondo said:
How bad will Valverde feel atm? He could have won this race. Froome is nowhere near his level of the past years.

It's just that the competition is at a low now. I have never seen such poor rivalry since .... i don't know really :(
http://www.climbing-records.com/2017/07/barguil-sets-tremendous-record-on-izoard.html
What a low competition! :rolleyes:

Eek!

Isn't this the first time the Izoard is a MtF - even the last climb actually? Highly misleading take. Apples and oranges.

It was last climb on 2007 Giro. Also, note that Izoard was the first climb on 2006 Tour on the way to Alpe, the level in that year was crazy high even with Puerto, I always wonder what could have happen if the Puerto didnt happen :p
 
Re: Re:

burning said:
Bullrun said:
GraftPunk said:
Alexandre B. said:
Arredondo said:
How bad will Valverde feel atm? He could have won this race. Froome is nowhere near his level of the past years.

It's just that the competition is at a low now. I have never seen such poor rivalry since .... i don't know really :(
http://www.climbing-records.com/2017/07/barguil-sets-tremendous-record-on-izoard.html
What a low competition! :rolleyes:

Eek!

Isn't this the first time the Izoard is a MtF - even the last climb actually? Highly misleading take. Apples and oranges.

It was last climb on 2007 Giro. Also, note that Izoard was the first climb on 2006 Tour on the way to Alpe, the level in that year was crazy high even with Puerto, I always wonder what could have happen if the Puerto didnt happen:p
Basso vs Ullrich in 2006 Tour :razz:
 

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