- Aug 29, 2012
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Watching the head on view and the overhead view side by side, synchronized and in slow motion at the same time, it's fairly obvious to me what really happened.
1. Cavendish was already on the right and half a bike length behind Sagan who was behind Demare
2. Demare veered to the right up against the barrier and Sagan followed him veering into the right were Cavendish was
3. This part was unseen in the overhead shot as it was obscured by trees: Sagan pushed Cavendish into the barriers causing Cavendish to fall
4. They both come out from under the trees where Sagan's elbow appears to be extended
Conclusion: This was 100% Sagan's fault, deviating from his line into Cavendish's line in an extremely dangerous manner and causing an accident. Was it deliberate? Maybe not, it's plausibly negligence from being unaware of Cavendish's position. The elbow appearing at the perfect timing from the overhead shot right when they reappear from under the trees does make it look worse than it is for Sagan. The fact that 'Cavendish was already going down when the elbow came out' is irrelevant, because the crash was still caused by Sagan.
I think the original punishment was correct, relegation and being put out of contention for the green jersey. I can't help but wonder if the DSQ decision was because he may have been 'warned' already for another incident earlier in the Tour.
1. Cavendish was already on the right and half a bike length behind Sagan who was behind Demare
2. Demare veered to the right up against the barrier and Sagan followed him veering into the right were Cavendish was
3. This part was unseen in the overhead shot as it was obscured by trees: Sagan pushed Cavendish into the barriers causing Cavendish to fall
4. They both come out from under the trees where Sagan's elbow appears to be extended
Conclusion: This was 100% Sagan's fault, deviating from his line into Cavendish's line in an extremely dangerous manner and causing an accident. Was it deliberate? Maybe not, it's plausibly negligence from being unaware of Cavendish's position. The elbow appearing at the perfect timing from the overhead shot right when they reappear from under the trees does make it look worse than it is for Sagan. The fact that 'Cavendish was already going down when the elbow came out' is irrelevant, because the crash was still caused by Sagan.
I think the original punishment was correct, relegation and being put out of contention for the green jersey. I can't help but wonder if the DSQ decision was because he may have been 'warned' already for another incident earlier in the Tour.
- Feb 24, 2014
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Re:
Cav needs to practice more on head butting. Sagan's elbow never touched Cav. Cav's own fault.
Gorecki said:
Cav needs to practice more on head butting. Sagan's elbow never touched Cav. Cav's own fault.
- Mar 11, 2009
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Re:
People make many claims here (a lot of them inexact : blaming ASO when it is a UCI decision, conspiracy theory, ...) but let's not kid ourselves : people are just pissed off that Sagan won't be there. Then everybody tries to find a reason for why he should still be there.
To the one complaining about Valverde not being there anymore, it was Valverde's own fault, not the organisation. When you are alone on a road, it is your responsibility to stay up (and I am as disappointed as any to see him gone).
If they DQ Demare, they should DQ Sagan for yesterday's stage. Should we play this game longer?Sartorius said:
People make many claims here (a lot of them inexact : blaming ASO when it is a UCI decision, conspiracy theory, ...) but let's not kid ourselves : people are just pissed off that Sagan won't be there. Then everybody tries to find a reason for why he should still be there.
To the one complaining about Valverde not being there anymore, it was Valverde's own fault, not the organisation. When you are alone on a road, it is your responsibility to stay up (and I am as disappointed as any to see him gone).
- May 17, 2013
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Re:
We can go earlier in the sprint with Nacer making a wave to his right that threw Demare close to the barriers. It's a sprint though. And when Demare made his move, he was way ahead of Bouhanni, he knew that Kristoff was closing the door on the right and shot the gap to the left. Nothing wrong here. The broadcasters didn't say anything either. It's a sprint. If nothing else, instead of going to the left ashe should have, Nacer played it this way to get his excuse of the day...
Two wrongs don't equal one right...Sartorius said:
We can go earlier in the sprint with Nacer making a wave to his right that threw Demare close to the barriers. It's a sprint though. And when Demare made his move, he was way ahead of Bouhanni, he knew that Kristoff was closing the door on the right and shot the gap to the left. Nothing wrong here. The broadcasters didn't say anything either. It's a sprint. If nothing else, instead of going to the left ashe should have, Nacer played it this way to get his excuse of the day...
- Jul 29, 2016
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Re: Re:
you mean Mr. Fair Play Cav?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=869ytxoJsF8
in my opinion probably mistake of both ... punishment is hardly acceptable compare to what was Cav not punished for ...
bigcog said:
you mean Mr. Fair Play Cav?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=869ytxoJsF8in my opinion probably mistake of both ... punishment is hardly acceptable compare to what was Cav not punished for ...
Re: Re:
Linking an old video to try and dodge the fact that the first "analysis" you posted was flawed won't wash here buddy. Cavendish has had his faults, but maybe you should accept that Sagan also has his?
lartiste said:bigcog said:
you mean Mr. Fair Play Cav?
in my opinion probably mistake of both ... punishment is hardly acceptable compare to what was Cav not punished for ...
Linking an old video to try and dodge the fact that the first "analysis" you posted was flawed won't wash here buddy. Cavendish has had his faults, but maybe you should accept that Sagan also has his?
- Sep 17, 2014
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Re:
"Cav's head on Sagan", yeah, because Sagan swerved right to push him into the barrier.
Gorecki said:
"Cav's head on Sagan", yeah, because Sagan swerved right to push him into the barrier.
Re: Re:
It was not about elbow, it was about changing his line so that Cavendish had nowhere to go despite being alongside (not fully alongside, but couldn't get out of situation without making a contact between his and Sagan's bike) with Sagan for seconds before the contact.
Blaming Cavendish that he didn't back off is ridiculous. It's just forbidden to squeeze another rider towards the barriers like that. Whether some riders got away with that in the past is not relevant, this move deserved a penalty. As harsh as DQ? It's not me who should judge it. But Sagan was definetely at fault.
This video shows nothing but the fact that its author doesn't really understand why Sagan was penalised.d-s3 said:
It was not about elbow, it was about changing his line so that Cavendish had nowhere to go despite being alongside (not fully alongside, but couldn't get out of situation without making a contact between his and Sagan's bike) with Sagan for seconds before the contact.
Blaming Cavendish that he didn't back off is ridiculous. It's just forbidden to squeeze another rider towards the barriers like that. Whether some riders got away with that in the past is not relevant, this move deserved a penalty. As harsh as DQ? It's not me who should judge it. But Sagan was definetely at fault.
- Jun 9, 2011
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Re:
You are a bit stubborn aren't you. If you get pushed into the barrier, wouldn't the most logical action be leaning towards the other side, hence why Cavendish was off balance and leans into Sagan?
Kopuliak said:once again :
You are a bit stubborn aren't you. If you get pushed into the barrier, wouldn't the most logical action be leaning towards the other side, hence why Cavendish was off balance and leans into Sagan?
@Kopuliak
Thanks for the slo.mo ... exactly what I saw in the original video
guess, if there is something you should not be doing in a sprint (or at any point of tension in a race), it's trying to pushing Peter Sagan out of your way .... that's about like a driver in a Mini Cooper trying to prod someone in a Hummer ....
not sure why PS is getting punished, but as the decision seems to be final, guess Peter would say, there is more to life than TdF 2017 ....
Thanks for the slo.mo ... exactly what I saw in the original video
guess, if there is something you should not be doing in a sprint (or at any point of tension in a race), it's trying to pushing Peter Sagan out of your way .... that's about like a driver in a Mini Cooper trying to prod someone in a Hummer ....
not sure why PS is getting punished, but as the decision seems to be final, guess Peter would say, there is more to life than TdF 2017 ....
- May 25, 2010
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Re: Re:
I think it was fairly obvious that Sagan never elbowed Cav down after watching the first replays. The cause of the crash is because people swirving all over road causing Cav to get caught between Sagan and thr barriers.
Sagan did go too far toward the barriers than needed imo though, but certainly not intentionally.
So my conclusion is that a dq is too harsh, but did he also cause the first crash?
bigcog said:
I think it was fairly obvious that Sagan never elbowed Cav down after watching the first replays. The cause of the crash is because people swirving all over road causing Cav to get caught between Sagan and thr barriers.
Sagan did go too far toward the barriers than needed imo though, but certainly not intentionally.
So my conclusion is that a dq is too harsh, but did he also cause the first crash?
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