Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[Jagartrott]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Did Cav's steering wheel cause the elbow?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Did Cav's steering wheel cause the elbow?

In one word, "Yes".

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Libertine, did it look deliberate to you (the elbow, not closing the door)?

Hi,

Just wanted to say the quote in your signature is gold.

How come we can't have access to the thread?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I think there is a big difference between swerving a bit to overtake a slower rider in the middle of the road, and taking a diagonal line which culminated in elbowing a faster, accelerating rider into the barriers. Even if Demare did 'swerve' more, what Sagan did was clearly much more dangerous.

No one "elbowed" anyone.
If you cannot take the time to watch the slow-mo front video, then at least have the decency to not comment on it.

It is fair to discuss the "changed lines" topic.
It is even fair to say Sagan should have just crashed into the riders in the left.

But parotting by now a debunked assertion is not fair or fine at this point.

It's clearly not debunked. It's the reason he was thrown out of the race.

If you don't see it as a deliberate elbow, that's fine. But the commisaires - who I wager are much more qualified and experienced in these matters than pretty much any one else, decided it was.

I really can't believe that you've taken the time to review in detail all the images in frame by frame to have made the determination that you have. Nor have the commisaires if they are saying that the elbow is the reason for the DQ. Regardless of officials experience and qualifications, they still make mistakes and I firmly believe that this is one of them.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Did Cav's steering wheel cause the elbow?

If you just watch the video at regular speed it sure looks like deliberate elbowing.

But when you watch the slow-mo, and look at stills like this, and then watch the slow-mos again. it's really really obvious. He had to lift his arm and elbow to get it unhooked from Cav's bars so that he wouldn't be pulled down also. Not to mention that Cav was falling seriously past the point of no return before the elbow ever moved.

The jurors blew it, big time. It happens in all sports, but here the unfair consequences seem ridiculously severe.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Libertine, did it look deliberate to you (the elbow, not closing the door)?

Hi,

Just wanted to say the quote in your signature is gold.

How come we can't have access to the thread?

I think the thread was moved to a mod-only subforum for reasons.

 

[Echoes]

We might start thinking Maggie Thatcher was a respectable person ...

 

[animir]

This accident shows, how serious problem cycling has. There is a rule about not changing line and there is everydays sprinting, which is quite different. Sprinters are following wheels or going for gaps and by doing that, they are changing their lines. Riders who are behind, has to follow or to brake. It is against the rules, but it is reality. As almost every sprint is somehow against the rules, referees have huge power in their decission making and there is high uncertainty about the outcome of some racing situations. E.g. if the rider in front of another rider changes direction and blocks another rider, but the blocked rider brakes and there is no accident, the rule is often not applied. If the blocked rider doesnt brake, than there is a problem. This means, that move of one rider is judged according to what the other rider does!

The solution is to unite the reality and the rules, so that there is more clarity for everybody. If the rule itselft could allow changing lines under certain circumstances, it would be possible to more clear judge race situations and also riders would clearly know, what is allowed and what not.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci...e-should-be-video-referees-to-review-sprints/

Looking back on the controversy stirred up by the decision, the official who headed up the UCI's Tour de France jury that disqualifiedPeter Sagan from the Tour de France following the crash of Mark Cavendish on stage 4 suggested that cycling needs commissaires examining video footage of the sprints to make decisions on rule violations. Currently the jury is made up of officials who are travelling with the race or otherwise engaged on site.

Belgian Philippe Mariën, in an interview with Het Nieuwsblad, also said that the jury did not reverse a decision to first relegate Sagan. "The jury had only discussed that as a possibility in private. It had never been announced. We only made one decision," he said. That decision was the disqualification.
...
Mariën said the UCI promised him they were working on a better solution.

"There must be a video referee, just like in football, that should be in front of the TV during the sprint to concentrate only on the sprint itself, then we can decide immediately and not look at the images later."

 

[hrotha]

"There must be a video referee, just like in football, that should be in front of the TV during the sprint to concentrate only on the sprint itself, then we can decide immediately and not look at the images later."

Is it me, or this makes zero sense?