Tour de France 2018 stage 7: Fougéres - Chartres 231 km

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Who is going to win the stage?

  • Fernando GAVIRIA

    Votes: 34 54.8%

  • Peter SAGAN

    Votes: 8 12.9%

  • Dylan GROENEWEGEN

    Votes: 8 12.9%

  • Marcel KITTEL

    Votes: 4 6.5%

  • Arnaud DEMARE

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • André GREIPEL

    Votes: 2 3.2%

  • Alexander KRISTOFF

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Sonny COLBRELLI

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Mark CAVENDISH

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
Dekker_Tifosi

Dekker_Tifosi

Mar 13, 2009
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That's your opinion. But not a fact.
Groenewagen came out of Kristoff's wheel same time Gaviria came out of Richeze's wheel. And he had to take the longer way around the corner as well. And still won easily. This is consistent with all his sprint wins earlier this season. The fastest. But not the best at positioning and definitely not the best leadout (a decent one though, Roosen isn't that bad)
 
Z

Zinoviev Letter

Aug 18, 2010
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
That's your opinion.
Click to expand...

Of course it’s my opinion, but it’s one grounded in evidence. Watch the sprint again: Kristoff’s timing and speed as a “lead out” were on this occasion much better than Richeze’s (the latter of the two having been in the wind). More significantly, if Groenewegen had continued to lose every sprint, your opinion would remain the same, that he was the fastest because you are arguing as a partisan.
 
Jagartrott

Jagartrott

Apr 15, 2014
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Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Excellent sprint Groenewegen. Showing pretty clearly that those who were sure that Gaviria was the fastest based on earlier stages were jumping the gun. There’s no need to overcompensate based on this one sprint though. The sprinters field here is wide open. It’s just a pity that the old guard haven’t got any form.
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I'm not basing it on one sprint. I'm basing it on this season. Time and time again, everytime Groenewegen is not blocked or bad positioned, he wins, and easily as well.

Too bad LottoNL has such poor preparation because of divided goals. Basically he has only Jansen, Martens and Roosen. Roosen is good but even he can't do it alone vs a QS with Terpstra, Lampaert, Richeze...
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You are a big cheerleader of his. If I was going to dismiss your opinion it would be on the grounds of wild favouritism rather than overcompensation based on one sprint. The general tendency on the forum though is to treat the most recent sprint as proof that the winner is really the fastest. So it was Gaviria, now suddenly it’s Groenewegen.

Today Groenewegen had a superb lead out, one of the best we will see all season. Admittedly it was from Kristoff rather than his own team, but unintentionally the Norwegian first protected him through a pretty rough sprint and then launched at high speed at the perfect time. Him winning from that wheel proves nothing more or less than Gaviria winning off Richeze’s did.
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Excellent post.
Every new sprint 'proves' somebody's opinion. Especially when mixed with nationalism, it's pretty useless and boring.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
That's your opinion. But not a fact.
Groenewagen came out of Kristoff's wheel same time Gaviria came out of Richeze's wheel. And he had to take the longer way around the corner as well. And still won easily. This is consistent with all his sprint wins earlier this season. The fastest. But not the best at positioning and definitely not the best leadout (a decent one though, Roosen isn't that bad)
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You are over reacting. There is also the probability that Gaviria and Sagan were tired from yesterday's efforts for different reasons. As opposed to Groenewagen.
 
Dekker_Tifosi

Dekker_Tifosi

Mar 13, 2009
29,405
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I'll repeat what Lefevre said instead.

"If you lose with five centimetres, you can say 10 times, ‘I should have won’, but if you lose by three bike lengths, there’s no discussion," said team manager Patrick Lefevere.

Asked whether Gaviria or Quick-Step could have done anything differently, Lefevere hit back: “Did you see a mistake? No, me neither. You have to accept this. He [Groenewegen] was too fast.”
 
B

bambino

May 24, 2013
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Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
That's your opinion.
Click to expand...

Of course it’s my opinion, but it’s one grounded in evidence. Watch the sprint again: Kristoff’s timing and speed as a “lead out” were on this occasion much better than Richeze’s (the latter of the two having been in the wind). More significantly, if Groenewegen had continued to lose every sprint, your opinion would remain the same, that he was the fastest because you are arguing as a partisan.
Click to expand...

And Tom is the best overall GT rider in the world.

I'm with ZL, it is quite tiring reading how Dylan is fastest of the world regardless if he wins or not. Pure nationalism with no continued fact based evidence. I would rather enjoy his first Tour win which was really convincing today rather than making him next to god of sprinting every time.

Ps. Verstappen is by far the best F1 driven, just been unluckily crashing 2*more than any other driver. :D
 
R

RattaKuningas

May 20, 2016
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Decided to watch short highlights today instead of following it live, which was a right decision it seems. Finally a very nice sprint by Groenewegen. I was getting little worried about him because half of the sprint stages are over now and he didn't have much to show.
 
Dekker_Tifosi

Dekker_Tifosi

Mar 13, 2009
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No Verstappen is very irregular, I don't rate him as the best F1 driver don't worry. Neither is Tom the best GT rider, since Froome is clearly better even half wounded (unfortunately). And he's still a GT behind Quintana and a lot behind Nibali.

I am sure Groenewegen is the fastest sprinter this year though. Absolutely convinced
 
M

More Strides than Rides

Mar 15, 2011
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
No Verstappen is very irregular, I don't rate him as the best F1 driver don't worry. Neither is Tom the best GT rider, since Froome is clearly better even half wounded (unfortunately). And he's still a GT behind Quintana and a lot behind Nibali.

I am sure Groenewegen is the fastest sprinter this year though. Absolutely convinced
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I hear what your saying, but that word fastest only matters on the track or the physiology lab. Same reason "best climber" threads are such a stalemate: that metric is so far removed from what is actually required on the road.
 
Dekker_Tifosi

Dekker_Tifosi

Mar 13, 2009
29,405
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There's a reason I call Groenewegen the fastest sprinter and not the best sprinter. To be the best he should be better at placing himself. Even though that's super hard to do in the Tour, you can still pick the right wheel. Sagan can place himself regardless if he has a team or not.
 
Z

Zinoviev Letter

Aug 18, 2010
11,435
3,594
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Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
There's a reason I call Groenewegen the fastest sprinter and not the best sprinter. To be the best he should be better at placing himself. Even though that's super hard to do in the Tour, you can still pick the right wheel. Sagan can place himself regardless if he has a team or not.
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Just to be clear: I don’t think that this is an unreasonable opinion. I just think that the situation is a lot murkier than that at the moment and we are in a rare competitive period in the sprints where a case can be made for a lot of guys as the best or, and this I agree is distinct, the fastest. And that lots of people are too certain too quickly, whether for reasons of preference for one guy or another or just a tendency to read too much into the latest sprint.

It wouldn’t be at all surprising if, say, eight Tour sprints ended up with six winners. Or with four sprinters taking two each.
 
V

Vasilis

May 4, 2014
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Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
Vasilis said:
So it seems Sagan either finishes behind Gaviria or in front of Colbrelli.
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If that's the case, then I'm gonna call it already!
Stage 21:
1. Gaviria
2. Sagan
3. Colbrelli

You may refer back to this post in a three-weeks time. :cool:
Click to expand...
He finished behind Gaviria again today, although the results don’t show that anymore.
 
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