Tour de France 2020 | Rest day 2 talk (and poll)

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Who will the 2020 Tour?

  • Roglic

    Votes: 64 61.0%
  • Pogacar

    Votes: 32 30.5%
  • Uran

    Votes: 3 2.9%
  • Lopez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yates

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Porte

    Votes: 3 2.9%
  • Landa

    Votes: 3 2.9%
  • Mas

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Quintana

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dumoulin

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Anyone thinknig the time limits have been sort of a joke? Like 30 minutes on reduced sprint stages, mountain stages that half a pan flat first half getting almost 50 minutes, etc.
I'll assume from your post that these times are more lenient than normal. Which begs the question why?

  • Because riders form is perhaps less reliable and predictable this year so we cut them some slack?
  • To do Quickstep and Bennett a favour?
  • Because riders are taking the proverbial by calling for earlier or slower grupettos?
  • To try and make the competition for stage wins more dynamic by having Sunweb style tactics of taking a day off to recover?
  • because they are clamping down more on drafting and strategcially placed sticky bottles?
  • Something to do with post Covid logistics, weather conditions, Prudhomme's absence, what side of the bed a commissar gets out of in the morning?
I'm not hatching conspiracy favours, I'm just curious what the variables are - which is probably a fool's errand with the TdF.

Personally I think the cut off times are essential to prevent Chippolini type characters riding the event. If you are missing a reasonable cut off time then you are either the wrong body type for a GT (think Chris Hoy) or are significantly unwell in a way that means your team should not be forcing you to carry on.

It should absolutely be a viable tactic for Bora for example to test Bennett's climbing and descending prowess (albeit I'm confident Bennett would be making the cut off from previous years), so it is a shame if that tactic is being denied.
 
I'll assume from your post that these times are more lenient than normal. Which begs the question why?

  • Because riders form is perhaps less reliable and predictable this year so we cut them some slack?
  • To do Quickstep and Bennett a favour?
  • Because riders are taking the proverbial by calling for earlier or slower grupettos?
  • To try and make the competition for stage wins more dynamic by having Sunweb style tactics of taking a day off to recover?
  • because they are clamping down more on drafting and strategcially placed sticky bottles?
  • Something to do with post Covid logistics, weather conditions, Prudhomme's absence, what side of the bed a commissar gets out of in the morning?
I'm not hatching conspiracy favours, I'm just curious what the variables are - which is probably a fool's errand with the TdF.

Personally I think the cut off times are essential to prevent Chippolini type characters riding the event. If you are missing a reasonable cut off time then you are either the wrong body type for a GT (think Chris Hoy) or are significantly unwell in a way that means your team should not be forcing you to carry on.

It should absolutely be a viable tactic for Bora for example to test Bennett's climbing and descending prowess (albeit I'm confident Bennett would be making the cut off from previous years), so it is a shame if that tactic is being denied.
I wouldn't know what changed about the rules, I just seem to remember time limits usually being in the 35 minute range for mountain stages and over 40 minutes being really rare, but I would simply assume it's because they don't like top sprinters or other top riders finishing OOT. Sponsors surely won't like it, and I'm sure the actual effect on the quality of the racing was given 0 consideration.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
The first riders to drop would definitely not be Bennett, not if he knew about it and did not over-exhaust himself in the stages before.
Ewan would be the first out, for sure. Ackermann and Groenewegen are not even there.

All this tactics' talk is very unsatifying, in the end only one thing is important: May the rider with the best hair win!
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Valverde: "To attack on this Tour is to blow yourself up"

Google translated caption (badly):
"They see them as tyrants. "On Sunday you lost the desire to attack." Speaks Alejandro Valverde , from Voiron hotel, to the northwest of Grenoble. "There was a time when there were five runners from the Jumbo", adds his partner Enric Mas . " Adam Yates left , I don't know if he walked 600 or 700 meters on the run, and they captured him," says the Mallorcan cyclist. "To attack here, in this Tour, is to immolate oneself," protests the 40-year-old Murcian cyclist, the oldest of the French round, who liked cycling more than a while ago, when there was more freedom, more attacks and even more show. "
 
Valverde: "To attack on this Tour is to blow yourself up"

Google translated caption (badly):
"They see them as tyrants. "On Sunday you lost the desire to attack." Speaks Alejandro Valverde , from Voiron hotel, to the northwest of Grenoble. "There was a time when there were five runners from the Jumbo", adds his partner Enric Mas . " Adam Yates left , I don't know if he walked 600 or 700 meters on the run, and they captured him," says the Mallorcan cyclist. "To attack here, in this Tour, is to immolate oneself," protests the 40-year-old Murcian cyclist, the oldest of the French round, who liked cycling more than a while ago, when there was more freedom, more attacks and even more show. "
Peloton be like: "We are all Valverdes this Tour"
 
Valverde: "To attack on this Tour is to blow yourself up"

Google translated caption (badly):
"They see them as tyrants. "On Sunday you lost the desire to attack." Speaks Alejandro Valverde , from Voiron hotel, to the northwest of Grenoble. "There was a time when there were five runners from the Jumbo", adds his partner Enric Mas . " Adam Yates left , I don't know if he walked 600 or 700 meters on the run, and they captured him," says the Mallorcan cyclist. "To attack here, in this Tour, is to immolate oneself," protests the 40-year-old Murcian cyclist, the oldest of the French round, who liked cycling more than a while ago, when there was more freedom, more attacks and even more show. "
There are few teams that can build really strong squads and therefore control the race the way they do. Sky/Ineos did it for years, but they dont really have best riders right now. Their team is not superior anymore. Others like JV, has stepped up.

JV has targeted to do this for more than a year in this Tour, so far succeeding. They have the resources required to make a real bid for it. Using a winning formula in the way they has raced so far. You field the strongest team, with a leader you believe to be strongest atm. Interesting 3rd week ahead, if they will win or if they will fail.
 
I wonder when was the last time someone won a Tour as an outsider with a weak team? It must have been before the Sky days? And there was that year where both Froome and Contador crashed out, but I'm not sure if that counts.
I just looked at the winners, it's actually quite depressing.

The outside bets win on occasion but every rider in the last 50 years seems to have some serious pedigree before or at least after after the race they won. Besides Pereiro, and even he had 2 top 10s in the past when he sort of won it*. I'm not sure about any time before that because my knowledge isn't particularly vast, but looking down the list, people generally don't seem to just rock up without any fanfare and win the race then fade away like they do in the Vuelta, where every once in a while some talented but overlooked underdog will just rock up and start absolutely smashing everyone, see; chris horner, jose cobo, aitor etc
 
I wouldn't know what changed about the rules, I just seem to remember time limits usually being in the 35 minute range for mountain stages and over 40 minutes being really rare, but I would simply assume it's because they don't like top sprinters or other top riders finishing OOT. Sponsors surely won't like it, and I'm sure the actual effect on the quality of the racing was given 0 consideration.
ASO occasionally tinker with the time limits but looking back to what they were in 2010 they are back to being identical for sprint stages and also identical for mountains stages except in one respect. They now have an extra category for the short mountain stages that have become fashionable and the time limits are more lenient for these (because of the greater proportion of climbing in the short stages) - for longer mountains stages there is no difference. In that 65 km stage that Quintana won a couple of years back they did away with even the more lenient limits (which would have meant time limit of <15 mins) and used the ITT coefficients instead
 
Dec 9, 2019
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Voted Roglic but I wouldn't bet my money on it. JV did tactical mistakes on Colombier and in other stages. It's gonna an exciting battle for the win and also for the last place on the podium. Sadly at this point the one with the best form for that is Dumo but he is too far back. :(
 
I wonder when was the last time someone won a Tour as an outsider with a weak team? It must have been before the Sky days? And there was that year where both Froome and Contador crashed out, but I'm not sure if that counts.
There's the Pereiro anomaly with a weak Caisse d'Epargne unable to chase Landis on his ride to Morzine.
Before that, LeMond '89 used to meet his teammates at breakfast and dinner.
 
Valverde: "To attack on this Tour is to blow yourself up"

Google translated caption (badly):
"They see them as tyrants. "On Sunday you lost the desire to attack." Speaks Alejandro Valverde , from Voiron hotel, to the northwest of Grenoble. "There was a time when there were five runners from the Jumbo", adds his partner Enric Mas . " Adam Yates left , I don't know if he walked 600 or 700 meters on the run, and they captured him," says the Mallorcan cyclist. "To attack here, in this Tour, is to immolate oneself," protests the 40-year-old Murcian cyclist, the oldest of the French round, who liked cycling more than a while ago, when there was more freedom, more attacks and even more show. "

He did answer the question as to why no one attacks.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
I'll assume from your post that these times are more lenient than normal. Which begs the question why?

  • Because riders form is perhaps less reliable and predictable this year so we cut them some slack?
  • To do Quickstep and Bennett a favour?
  • Because riders are taking the proverbial by calling for earlier or slower grupettos?
  • To try and make the competition for stage wins more dynamic by having Sunweb style tactics of taking a day off to recover?
  • because they are clamping down more on drafting and strategcially placed sticky bottles?
  • Something to do with post Covid logistics, weather conditions, Prudhomme's absence, what side of the bed a commissar gets out of in the morning?
I'm not hatching conspiracy favours, I'm just curious what the variables are - which is probably a fool's errand with the TdF.

Personally I think the cut off times are essential to prevent Chippolini type characters riding the event. If you are missing a reasonable cut off time then you are either the wrong body type for a GT (think Chris Hoy) or are significantly unwell in a way that means your team should not be forcing you to carry on.

It should absolutely be a viable tactic for Bora for example to test Bennett's climbing and descending prowess (albeit I'm confident Bennett would be making the cut off from previous years), so it is a shame if that tactic is being denied.
In TdF 2018, the 2nd mountain stage (11th) had Cavendish and Kittel OTL, the next stage had Gaviria, Groenewegen and Greipel listed as DNF.
Best guess is they wanted the sprinters reaching Paris
Valverde: "To attack on this Tour is to blow yourself up"


Google translated caption (badly):
"They see them as tyrants. "On Sunday you lost the desire to attack." Speaks Alejandro Valverde , from Voiron hotel, to the northwest of Grenoble. "There was a time when there were five runners from the Jumbo", adds his partner Enric Mas . " Adam Yates left , I don't know if he walked 600 or 700 meters on the run, and they captured him," says the Mallorcan cyclist. "To attack here, in this Tour, is to immolate oneself," protests the 40-year-old Murcian cyclist, the oldest of the French round, who liked cycling more than a while ago, when there was more freedom, more attacks and even more show. "
Valverde's choice of words is more dramatic than simply "blow up".
Blow up is normally used figuratively speaking in sports as fundirse, quemarse or explotar
 

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